Tissue vs. Mechanical - terrified and confused

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Cherie'

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
57
Location
Tarpon Springs, FL
Hey all - I too am struggling with the decision of whether to get a mechanical or tissue valve. Just found out I have a ascending aortic aneurysm and a leaking BAV approximately one month ago after a visit to ER thinking I was having a heart attack. Never knew I had any heart issues or BAV and am now scheduled for surgery July 28, 2010 - which also happens to be my birthday! I am not going to lie - the whole thing is a bit overwhelming. I am 45, female, healthy, non-smoker, not overweight, etc. so I am in shock a bit. I have been reading all your posts and am so confused. First I was thinking mechanical, but I am scared of being on Coumadin for the rest of my life which could easily be 45+ years (my grandmother is 98!) and has anyone had a mechanical valve for that long without reoperation? Heck half the time I cant even remember to take my thyroid medicine! Now I am thinking maybe a tissue valve which may get me to 55-60 yrs old and then do mechanical. But the thought of another surgery scares me. I hear of people talking of hearing the ticking of their valves and irregular heart beats and that is freaking me out!! The only symptoms I have now are some shortness of breath and some chest pains. Maybe I should try to push off surgery a year or two to buy me time - I AM TERRIFIED and CONFUSED!!!

PS - I originally posted this late last night under Penny's thread, but then realized I probably should have started a new one - didn't know how to move the couple of posts after mine over. Maybe someone can help me? Also don't know how to get my info to show up at bottom so I retyped it.

Ascending aortic aneurysm, Bicuspid aortic valve with AR 3+, Dialated aortic root - Scheduled for surgery July 28, 2010 - Dr. Tom Martin - UF Shands Hospital in Gainesville - First found out I had aneurysm May 28, 2010 after trip to ER - Have found out about BAV and root since:(
 
Hi Cherie

You will find that it is a very personal decision. I chose mechanical because I did not want to go through more than one surgery if possible (no guarantees). So far I have not found Warfarin (Coumadin) too much of a problem except for one nose bleed. There are no right or wrong answers but if you look back at some of these posts you will find lots of discussions about it. I found that the surgery was not as bad as I thought it would be. You just need to take a deep breath and get the surgery done. You cannot put off the inevitable and the sooner you get it done the sooner you recover. I can hear my valve from time to time but not always and it really does not bother me.
All the best
Martin
 
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Hi Cherie: It may sound morbid but the survival rate for surgery is EXCELLENT (if you were concerned) and life after surgery ,while intially challenging due to recovery time is really just about the same as life before. Honest. You will have to make some monitoring adjustments and you will become friendly with your cardiologist who you will see every 6 months for awhile-so make sure you like him or her! In the great grand scheme of things--when all is said and done--with friends, family and a postiive attitude-you will be a happy camper this time next year-swear!
As far as which valve--the battle rages on! I had a medtronic mosaic porcine valve whihc failed after 5 years and will be heading in for a mechanical -hopefully my last surgery.(Martin-sorry dude but that surgery SUCKED) Read all the forums and educate yourself--you're lucky you found this site !
Laura
 
Hey all - I too am struggling with the decision of whether to get a mechanical or tissue valve...... First I was thinking mechanical, but I am scared of being on Coumadin for the rest of my life which could easily be 45+ years (my grandmother is 98!) and has anyone had a mechanical valve for that long without reoperation?
:(

Hi Cherie and welcome. The "tissue vs mechanical" is a question that a LOT of people on this board have had to answer. The simple answer is that either will work and both have advantages.....as well as disadvantages. I was fortunate and was given no choice in selecting my valve, since only mechanical valves were available (as far as I know) back then. In answer to some of your questions....

...Warfarin(Coumadin) has seldom been a problem for me. However, I did find out the hard way, a long time ago, that it must be taken as prescribed with regular INR testing. Warfarin is not a drug that is difficlt to manage, but it does require common sense and a dosing regimen.

...One of my grandmothers died at 96, the other at 66. My mechanical valve will be 43 years old in about one month. I have one of the early designs, and know, or have been told, of several valves that are that old. The odds are, that if you are otherwise healthy, a meachanical valve may last your lifetime....but, like everything else in life, there are no guarantees.

... I stopped hearing my valve tick a long, long time ago and I have had very few irregular heart beats over the years.

You have the advantage of having a lot of history to help reach your decision. Ask your questions and do your homework and your right decision will come to you. Best wishes.
 
Hi Cherie and welcome to the forum. First off, this is absolutely the best place to get your questions answered and get support. I ran across it back in late March, but have now become addicted to it!

On the question of tissue vs. mechanical, you'll find it's one of the more controversial issues on here. So you'll hear a lot of passionate replies from both camps. Below is my passionate reply - but remember, I'm just one guy. Others will likely echo what I'm saying, and others yet will have completely different, but just as legit replies. It's a very personal decision, and there is probably no right or wrong blanket answer that works for everyone.

I was initially leaning heavily towards tissue (see my original post - http://www.valvereplacement.org/forums/showthread.php?34663-48-year-old-newbie-Lots-of-questions-to-come) because I didn't want to alter my lifestyle and because I'm terrible at remembering to take meds (or at least was before surgery). Plus, was afraid of bruising easily. In fact, I think I even mentioned in the link above the same approach you're thinking of - go tissue, live the next 15 years w/o any lifestyle changes, then go mechanical at that point. After some research, including talking to many on here as well as advice from my surgeon and cardiologist, I went mechanical. My surgeon probably made the most impact on my decision, followed closely by some here on the forum.

My surgeon said he would do a tissue if I really, really wanted, but he strongly recommended a mechanical due to my relatively young age (49). He said that while the survival rate from the initial surgery is very, very high, especially for folks that are pretty healthy and in the age range I'm in, the rate gets worse with subsequent surgeries. Reasons include a) you're older when you need the subsequent surgeries; and b) the first surgery takes a toll on your body (Ross will confirm) which makes subsequent surgeries a little more risky. He quoted me some numbers on subsequent surgeries, but I've found they're a little controversial on here, so will leave those off this time. But his reasoning passed my common sense test, so I bought in. Plus, there are other considerations to take into account with subsequent surgeries. The expense of the 2nd/3rd surgery, including the risk of no longer being insured by then (assuming you are now). The extra time off work. And just the emotional/physical toll of going through it a 2nd time. So in my case, I decided I didn't want to go through a second surgery if I could help it. And I know there's no guarantee, but my understanding is my valve will most likely out-live me, and I'm planning to live 'till I'm 98.

The other thing that changed my mind was I became convinced after talking to several on here that Coumadin isn't all that bad afterall. And so far, I'd say they were absolutely right. I've been on it for a little over 8 weeks now (my surgery was 5/5) and have had virtually zero issues with it so far. And to my surprise, with the help of a pill box and an alarm I set on my cell phone to remind me, I think I've only had one "mess-up" with any of my meds. And I'm one of the worst there is/was at remembering to take meds. I could go into detail about the things that I was afraid of that there really isn't a reason to be afraid of, but then my already-too-long post would be even longer. So if you wanna know more, private message me.

Oh, and the other, other thing that really had an impact on me, and again, this is controversial, but seems to be backed up by many here in the forum, is that in younger folks (<60) a tissue valve often doesn't last the 15-20 years I was originally hearing. In fact, they seem to often fail as early as 7 years. That might have been the tipping point for me as I think back. And you'll likely hear the other side here on the forum as well - which is that a) tissues are better now-a-days and last longer than the 7 years several on here have experienced; and b) there's a chance down the road with tissue, you'll be able to get it replaced with a less invasive procedure. And, there's some evidence that the cow valves (as opposed to pig valves) may last closer to 20 yrs. You'll have to decide for yourself which camp you believe. I decided I didn't want to take the chance on another surgery in 7 yrs.

On the ticking valve issue. I still hear mine most of the time if I stop and think about it. But it's basically like background/white noise. Doesn't bother me at all, even when trying to go to sleep. It does make the irregular beats I've had a little more obvious, but on the bright side, I can take my pulse now w/o feeling my wrist ;) Overall, if I had it to do all over again, I'd still go mechanical - very, very happy with that choice.

Hope that helps a little. Let me/us know if you have more questions - as I'm sure you will.

Oh, and the most important thing at this point (other than picking tissue vs. mechanical) is to realize that the surgery itself is usually nowhere NEAR as bad as you're likely fearing right now. I won't say it's a piece of cake, but compared to what I thought it was gonna be, it almost was for me. But again, as "easy" and smooth as mine went, I'm still happy I most likely don't have to go through another one later.
 
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Hi Cherie
I know exactly how you feel, the decision that we are faced with it so damn difficult. My surgeon wouldn't suggest one way or another. She gave me the risks involved, the length of time for each one and said it is a personal choice. So you will most likely find yourself sitting on the fence trying to make a decision for awhile. If you have read my thread then you know that I am leaning towards a tissue one as opposed to mechanical. Besided my celiac, I too have difficulties remembering to take my pills on a regular basis. On the flip side of that, my girlfriend who was like me and always forgot to take her meds, she bought a programmable watch that had an alarm on it. Needless to say she never forgot. So sometimes we may have to become clever to ensure that we caring for ourselves as we should. I don't sleep well at the best of times because I sleep so lightly and I fear with a mechanical that it will keep me awake. Some people here say that you get used to it, sort of like if you live close to an airport, at first living there you always hear the planes then you don't.
The comments about the surgery sucked, well I can't comment on that. I watched the youtube movie Andy posted and it didn't seem too bad. I have had lots of words of encouragement that it isn't as bad as we think it will be. So I don't know there seems to be quite a few difference of oppinions about how bad the surgery is. Confused? I am too! I think it just goes with what we are facing.
 
Hey Cherie,
It really is a personal decision. You need to do a lot of research on your own also. I am 11 days post-op, I'm a 47yr old female. I decided to go with a porcine valve and aorta. I will have to be on coumadin but only for about a couple of months. After that, I'm supposed to stay on a low dose aspirin daily. I just felt this was the best decision for me, since I do not take meds on a regular basis - only an excedrin for a headache now and then. I wanted my life to be as close to as what it was before the surgery, eventhough, I know at some point I will have to have the surgery again. Do a lot of research online. Read all about the effects of coumadin, pros and cons, mechanical valves, pros and cons, tissue valves, pros and cons, so you can feel that you will be making the best decision for you. My best I send to you, I was just like you, didn't have a clue as to which to choose or what to even think for that matter. There's so many wonderful people here to help you also. I got a flood of my questions answered right here! Take your time and make the best decision you can. It's one that you will have to live with, so do what's best for you. Blessings to you! If I were you, I would ask my dr's what's the longest amount of time you could have before having the surgery? However, I feel they must know already you need this pretty soon, but it's worth a shot, if that's what you're worried about.
 
Oh, and the other, other thing that really had an impact on me, and again, this is controversial, but seems to be backed up by many here in the forum, is that in younger folks (<60) a tissue valve often doesn't last the 15-20 years I was originally hearing. In fact, they seem to often fail as early as 7 years. That might have been the tipping point for me as I think back. And you'll likely hear the other side here on the forum as well - which is that a) tissues are better now-a-days and last longer than the 7 years several on here have experienced; and b) there's a chance down the road with tissue, you'll be able to get it replaced with a less invasive procedure. And, there's some evidence that the cow valves (as opposed to pig valves) may last closer to 20 yrs. You'll have to decide for yourself which camp you believe. I decided I didn't want to take the chance on another surgery in 7 yrs.

Just wanted to add, my uncle who has had his aortic valve replaced went with the piggy valve :)
It's been 17 yrs since his surgery and going strong(He was early 50s).
He told me he has been dilligent about keeping in shape, eating properly and looking after himself.. kind of the reason I have decide to chose the same as him.
 
As with you, the information that I had a stenosed BAV and an enlarged aorta came out of the blue after 60 years of near perfect health. It's a rude shock. Very hard to absorb and put into any kind of sane perspective, particularly since you were given so little warning. I had more than a year to figure things out. Still, the decision regarding tissue vs. mechanical came down to the last minute. So, at least know that you are having a very common and understandable response to what is a real health crisis. It would be better if you could get beyond the terror and make a quick, clear decision, but that is just very hard. Understand that there is no absolute right or wrong way to go on this. I thought that if I kept looking at this, gathering more and more information, the choice would become crystal clear. Ultimately I made the decision, but there was a whole lot of hemming and hawing along the way.

Your fear should be reduced by recognizing that this is incredibly successful surgery. The odds are utterly overwhelming that you will do well. It still amazes me that surgeons can do what they do to your body during this operation and have a mortality rate of around 1%. I made sure my "affairs" were generally in order, but I gave very, very little mind to the possibility that I might die. It's very remote. Also, odds are your recovery will be complete and you will have no lingering symptoms. Recovery varies, but is on the order of a few months with continued improvement over several more months.

The tissue vs. mechanical valve choice factors boil down to ticking, warfarin and reoperation and perspectives on this are all over the map. I won't start a debate. But if I were in an academic debate, I could easily build a defense for either alternative by picking and choosing the information I used. My surgeon had a recommendation down to the specific device, and ultimately I sided with that, but it was a close call. I would try to get the perspective of the surgeon. You are trusting your life to him/her and probably should give a lot of weight to his/her opinion.

Anyway, most of us have BTDT and sincerely sympathize with your situation. Just remember, ultimately you will do well and your life will be saved by this operation.

Bill
 
Tissue vs Mechanical?????

Well, the good news is that you have a choice, and they both work. Be thankful there is a fix. I am. Went through this last year at exactly this time. I was 49, and chose tissue, But the surgeon (who recommended tissues) promised I would need one more surgery, for sure.

So far, I am very happy, they are smooth (had two put in), and im fact am in the best shape of my life.

Based on what I have read here on this forum, most people are mechanicals and from the testimonials, sounds like the majority are doing very well also.

Until you make your decision, just be grateful you can make one. No matter which one you choose, you will have chosen wisely.

Good luck.
 
hi cherie welcome to the forum, tissue v mech well in my opinion it isnt a case of one against the other, cricky you think it was a boxing match lol, there BOTH save your life its just a case of which one suits YOU better, look at all the facts and pick which one suits you, you will be just fine ok........neil
 
Write the pros and cons for each and see which type will work for you . Everyone one has different reasons. I got a cow valve 2 days after my 48th birthday. Yes I am concerned it may have to be replaced but non invasive procedures are being improved everyday and there's no guarantees in either valve .
Your very lucky you found this site . Lots of opinions, knowledge and caring folks on this site , I didn't find the site until after my surgery.
I was like you, terrified , confused and was ready to cancel the whole thing the day before but my husband talked me out of it and told me how important the surgery was for me to feel better . I had delayed it 8 months , my husband had been diagnosed with cancer so I put my health problems on the back burner. It's normal to be scared keep busy and before you know it , it will be all over and you'll be healing this side of the mountain .
Wishing you lots of luck .
 
My mechanical valve is not near the age of Dick's, mine is only 19+ years.

The surgeon recommended mechanical, he didn't especially like it with me having a history of bleeding ulcer. But he said he couldn't recommend a pig valve due to my age of 56. It made sense to me for I didn't want but one heart surgery. After surgery, it even made more sense!

Taking warfarin is no big deal, my wife has never let me miss a dose. :)

Good luck with what ever you chose.
 
The comments about the surgery sucked, well I can't comment on that. I watched the youtube movie Andy posted and it didn't seem too bad.

Some people have textbook surgeries and recoveries and some of us don't. Neither one of mine were something I ever want to repeat.
 
Cherie, things are going to be much better than they currently seem. I had never been in a hospital for more than a day before my AVR last year. Even though I knew about the stenosis for years, it was still a shock to be told that the time for surgery has come. I expected it to be very traumatic. Instead, the whole experience was not really bad. Because you are younger and healthy, your recovery should be pretty straight forward.

My take on the question of which valve is pretty much that of those you've just read. This is not a decission you are likely to make by yourself but, rather, you will make it with your surgeon. It is possible your surgeon will have no preference but probably she or he will recommend a particular type for you based on your health, age, and medical history. The plain fact is that no one can know what the best choice is because there are no perfect valves. The best research to date shows no difference in how long people live as a function of the type of heart valve they have. The different types all carry baggage. With your surgeon, you will pick the one that you are most comfortable living with and it should serve you for years to come.

As for the issue of remembering to take medication, it is very likely that you will be taking some medication at least for some months after surgery. Get a pill box at your drug store and put it where you will touch it every morning. With a mechanical valve, there is the need for anti-coagulant and testing, with tissue you need to take an aspirin and when you get an infection it will need to be identified so that you take the proper anti-biotics. You will also be taking drugs to manage heartbeat and blood pressure because surgery leaves things sort of out of whack for a while. Major healing takes a few weeks but recovery goes on for much longer. Cherie, this is not some impossible task that you cannot learn to live with and there are several hundred people in VR who can reassure you that things will get better.

Larry
 
With a mechanical valve, there is the need for anti-coagulant and testing, with tissue you need to take an aspirin and when you get an infection it will need to be identified so that you take the proper anti-biotics. You will also be taking drugs to manage heartbeat and blood pressure because surgery leaves things sort of out of whack for a while. Major healing takes a few weeks but recovery goes on for much longer. Cherie, this is not some impossible task that you cannot learn to live with and there are several hundred people in VR who can reassure you that things will get better.

Larry

Larry, I've seen this a couple times and wanted to mention with any replaced valve, not just tissue, you have the same precautions with infections and the chances of BE. Also not all people need meds for blood pressure ect after surgery, many do, but some just take pain meds and aspirin by the time they are well enough to go home, some, but not all have a couple months of coumadin with their tissue valve.

Cheri, I know it can seem very frighting and overwhelming, but as people have said the success rate for this surgery is very good. The fact you are going in to it healthy and don't smoke should help. It is usually tougher for people who have other health problems or their heart is in bad shape by the time they have their surgery.
 
Dear all-
Thank you all for all of your encouraging words. It really makes me feel like I am not alone. Like many of you I have been going around and around in my mind. Have even wondered if I should postpone the surgery. Cardiologist & two surgeons say I need to do in next 30-60 days as I am symptomatic. Another surgeon says I could postpone and get another chest CT in 3 months and see how things are going. I have been lucky enough to talk to multiple surgeons. I have two daughters - one is college - who will be available to help care for me in the summer - so thinking sooner is better than later as it will take some stress off of my husband.

Spoke with nurse at On-x ans she had some very interesting information. Says they are awaiting FDA approval for the assembled On-x value with the conduit already attached - Dont know if I have correct terminology - This sounds very exciting to me. Kind of leaning toward On-x if I go mechanical.

I guess there is no right or wrong answer. My question is what is the longest anyone knows of a tissue valve lasting? Was it pig or cow? Is there anyone that has tissue or mechanical that wishes they would have made a different decision, and why? WHat things can you absolutely not do on coumadin? Can you have any alcohol, coffee, iced tea, etc.?

Thanks for all of your words of wisdom and insight,

Cherie'
 
Cherie':

I'm glad you see that you are not alone in this challenge.

A lot of people like the On-X. Although my surgeon was willing to install whatever I chose, it was not his preferred valve. I suppose you could argue that if I wanted that valve, I should have gone to another surgeon who used it regularly, but I preferred this surgeon over any specific valve. Also, it is possible although not common that conditions found at surgery might indicate one valve over another. Surgeons can easily sew a conduit onto an non-conduited valve, but I preferred to keep it simple, and my surgeon's recommendation was a grafted valve anyway. Finally, after trying to micro-manage the valve choice and running into all kinds of issues trying to sift through all the data on available valves, I decided to just make the tissue-mechanical choice and leave the specifics up to my surgeon. Anyway, before you get too far down the road on valve choice, I hope you can get some input from your surgeon or his staff if you haven't already.

There is good reason to be very optimistic, and since you are having symptoms, I would be inclined to get this done sooner rather than later, as 2 out 3 surgeons you talked with agreed.

Oh, and I don't know anything you can't do in moderation on warfarin including alcohol, and certainly coffee and iced tea are not a problem. The main issue is with dark green vegetables, which are no problem either other than they contain larger amounts of vitamin K. If you are fairly consistent in how much of them you eat, then there is no probklem at all. If it varies from one week to the next, the dose of warfarin you need will vary. There are some drug interactions, although there are only a few significant ones.

Bill
 
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