Aspirin part two

Valve Replacement Forums

Help Support Valve Replacement Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
There is another aspirin thread going just now but my question would really constitute a hijack so...a separate thread it will be. Apologies if this has been covered in the past.

At the time of my release from the hospital post-surgery(AVR with Carbomedics mechanical valve), I was prescribed only warfarin for protection from clotting. INR was meant to be in the range 2.0-3.0. At my first post-surgical cardiology appointment I was seen by a young doctor from Israel who was doing his fellowship with my cardio. He put me on 81 mg Aspirin as well, stating that the most recent studies suggested it afforded significantly more protection with statistically insignificant risk of bleeding events.

At my most recent visit to the actual, usual cardiologist he stopped the Aspirin, saying that he didn't think it was worth the extra risk. I dutifully stopped taking it and didn't think about it again until last night when I was reading everything the AHA has to say about anti-coagulation. According to them, the doc on the fellowship was right. Furthermore, they quoted a Dutch study of over 15,000 patients indicating that the risk of thrombotic events increased dramatically with an INR of less than 2.5.

I'm not going to ask for any advice, and I do plan to take it up with my doctor via email but I wonder what other people have been prescribed for the same condition, which is a modern, pyrolytic carbon valve in the aortic position with no atrial fibrillation and otherwise good health, including a very active lifestyle. I suspect that my doc may be operating from old information.

Another very interesting thing on the same very dense page was a bit about warfarin interfering with clotting and with coagulation by two quite separate actions. This is interesting because it holds out the hope that one day the two may be separated and we may be offered a drug which is able to interfere with clotting while leaving coagulation unhindered.

If anyone hasn't seen the page and would like to, here it is:
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/107/12/1692
It does date back to 2003 but it hasn't been updated since, and it is my understanding that the AHA is considered the leading authority on this stuff. The guide is also associated with the American College of Cardiology.

Paul

I know you aren't asking for advice, but IF you have extra time I personally probably would also check pubmed for more recent studies, even tho the AHA hasn't updated this, many of the studies used are from the 70s and 80s. Since you can usually find 1 study proving any point you want to make, I try to read several to get an idea of what the majority of the studies show, but then again, I have lots of spare time.

Some of the info in the article I found a little puzzling like when they compared home testing to coumadin clinics and doctors offices, it said

"In the first study, 75 patients with prosthetic heart valves who managed their own therapy were compared with a control group of the same size managed by their personal physicians.147 The self-managed patients tested themselves approximately every 4 days and achieved a 92% degree of satisfactory anticoagulation, as determined by the INR. The physician-managed patients were tested approximately every 19 days, but only 59% of INR values were in therapeutic range. Self-managed individuals experienced a 4.5% per year incidence of bleeding of any severity and a 0.9% per year rate of thromboembolism, compared with 10.9% and 3.6%, respectively, in the physician-managed group (P<0.05 between groups)."

So even tho the self testers had less bleeds and clots than doctors office, at 4.5% compared to almost 11% bleeds, I would think the fact the self testers were checking their INR every 4 days while the doctors office were checked every 19 days, would probably (IMO) play a part in why the self testers were in range more often and so had less "events"

FWIW What I could find about the Dutch study you mentioned I think you were talking about this

"A retrospective study of 16 081 patients with mechanical heart valves in the Netherlands attending 4 regional anticoagulation clinics (target INR 3.6 to 4.8) found a sharp rise in the incidence of embolic events when the INR fell to <2.5, whereas bleeding increased when the INR rose to >5.0.120 "
I don't know if it was a typo but when I went to the study http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM199507063330103
it was based on 1608 patients not 16,081.

"Results. A total of 1608 patients were followed during
6475 patient-years. Cerebral embolism occurred in 43 patients
(0.68 per 100 patient-years) and peripheral embolism
in 2 (0.03 per 100 patient-years). Intracranial and
spinal bleeding occurred in 36 patients (0.57 per 100 patient-
years) and major extracranial bleeding in 128 (2.1 per
100 patient-years). The optimal intensity of anticoagulation,
at which the incidence of both complications was lowest,
was achieved when the INR was between 2.5 and 4.9.
Conclusions. The intensity of anticoagulant therapy
for patients with prosthetic heart valves is optimal when
the INR is between 2.5 and 4.9. To achieve this level of
anticoagulation, a target INR of 3.0 to 4.0 is recommended."

But it also might not be that helpful, since many of the valves they were studying aren't used now.
the patients had 53 Caged ball or disk , 1354 Tilting disk, Bileaflet 347, Unknown 12
My guess would be the chances of clot with a bileaf valve would probably be less.

editted to add I wanted to add the breakdown of the valves for anyone interested

for the 53 caged valves -Starr–Edwards in 46 and Cooley–Cutter in 7.
for the 1354 tilt disk - Bjork–Shiley in 1052, Sorin in 164, Medtronic–Hall in 137, Lillehei–Kaster in 1.and of the bileaf valves - St. Jude in 242, DuroMedics in 56, and CarboMedics in 49

Also later on in "differences in subgroups", they show
"The overall incidence of thromboembolism was 0.5 per 100 patient-years for the bileaflet valves, 0.7 per 100 patient-years for the tilting-disk valves, and 2.5 per 100 patient-years for the caged-ball and caged-disk valves. The type of valve did not affect the risk of bleeding substantially."
 
Last edited:
My Cardiologist thinks that everybody (and certainly all full-grown males) should be on a daily baby aspirin, regardless of heart history, HVRs, or Coumadin. I think most of the evidence supports that view, at least for the average among us.


Curious.... why just males? Not females?
 
I know you aren't asking for advice, but IF you have extra time I personally probably would also check pubmed for more recent studies, even tho the AHA hasn't updated this, many of the studies used are from the 70s and 80s. Since you can usually find 1 study proving any point you want to make, I try to read several to get an idea of what the majority of the studies show, but then again, I have lots of spare time.

Some of the info in the article I found a little puzzling like when they compared home testing to coumadin clinics and doctors offices, it said
"In the first study, 75 patients with prosthetic heart valves who managed their own therapy were compared with a control group of the same size managed by their personal physicians.147 The self-managed patients tested themselves approximately every 4 days and achieved a 92% degree of satisfactory anticoagulation, as determined by the INR. The physician-managed patients were tested approximately every 19 days, but only 59% of INR values were in therapeutic range. Self-managed individuals experienced a 4.5% per year incidence of bleeding of any severity and a 0.9% per year rate of thromboembolism, compared with 10.9% and 3.6%, respectively, in the physician-managed group (P<0.05 between groups)."

So even tho the self testers had less bleeds and clots than doctors office, at 4.5% compared to almost 11% bleeds, I would think the fact the self testers were checking their INR every 4 days while the doctors office were checked every 19 days, would probably (IMO) play a part in why the self testers were in range more often and so had less "events"

FWIW What I could find about the Dutch study you mentioned I think you were talking about this
"A retrospective study of 16 081 patients with mechanical heart valves in the Netherlands attending 4 regional anticoagulation clinics (target INR 3.6 to 4.8) found a sharp rise in the incidence of embolic events when the INR fell to <2.5, whereas bleeding increased when the INR rose to >5.0.120 "
I don't know if it was a typo but when I went to the study http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM199507063330103
it was based on 1608 patients not 16,081,
"Results. A total of 1608 patients were followed during
6475 patient-years. Cerebral embolism occurred in 43 patients
(0.68 per 100 patient-years) and peripheral embolism
in 2 (0.03 per 100 patient-years). Intracranial and
spinal bleeding occurred in 36 patients (0.57 per 100 patient-
years) and major extracranial bleeding in 128 (2.1 per
100 patient-years). The optimal intensity of anticoagulation,
at which the incidence of both complications was lowest,
was achieved when the INR was between 2.5 and 4.9.
Conclusions. The intensity of anticoagulant therapy
for patients with prosthetic heart valves is optimal when
the INR is between 2.5 and 4.9. To achieve this level of
anticoagulation, a target INR of 3.0 to 4.0 is recommended."

But it also might not be that helpful, since many of the valves they were studying aren't used today now.
the patients had 53 Caged ball or disk , 1354 Tilting disk, Bileaflet 347, Unknown 12
My guess would be the chances of clot with a bileaf valve would probably be less.


Very Interesting Lyn. Thanks for posting.
Yes, I'd be more inclined to believe the study was for 1608 and not 16081 patients

The usual INR recommendation in the USA over the past several years 'seems' to be
2.0 to 3.0 for a Mechanical Valve in the AORTIC Position with NO additional risk factors
2.5 to 3.5 for a Mechanical Valve in the Aortic Position WITH additional risk factors
............. such as Stroke, TIA, Deep Vein Thrombosis, history of Clotting Issues,

The usual INR recommendation in the USA of the past several years 'seems' to be
2.5 to 3.5 for a Mechanical Valve in the MITRAL Position with NO additional risk factors
3.0 to 3.5 or 4.0 for a Mechanical Valve in the MITRAL Position WITH additional risk factors
..............such as Stroke, TIA, Deep Vein Thrombosis, history of Clotting Issues

From my reading of the Anti-Coagulation Forum, most Home Testers and Self Dosers feel
comfortable with an INR between 2.0 and 4.0 for Aortic Valves with NO additional risk factors.
Maintaining a Narrow INR range of 0.5 from top to bottom is Extremely Difficult (if not impossible)
over a long period of time.

'AL Capshaw'
 
I take an 81mg along with Plavix instead of Warafin. I asked my Cardio why they suggested that. She said "I don't know, they do that sometimes. Just take it."

Cardios and surgeons don't seem to talk to each other much.
 
I take an 81mg along with Plavix instead of Warafin. I asked my Cardio why they suggested that. She said "I don't know, they do that sometimes. Just take it."

Cardios and surgeons don't seem to talk to each other much.

Did that give you any thoughts about maybe looking for a new cardio?
Wait a 2nd that is because it is that leg of the clinical trial, you are a part of isn't it? So there really isn't alot of chance of changing it
 
James -

Your signature line says that you are a participant in the On-X PROACT Study of NO / LOW Coumadin Protocol for On-X valve participants. I would *assume* that you volunteered to be a part of that study which uses a combination of Plavix and Aspirin for one of the study groups. I would also assume that the study was explained to you before you volunteered to participate.

Plavix and Aspirin is NOT recommended for recipients of other manufacturer's mechanical valves.
It sounds like your Cardio has NO knowledge or understanding of the PROACT Study.
 
James -

My contact at On-X advises me that the usual recommendation for the Plavix plus Aspirin Group in the PROACT Study is 325 mg of Aspirin and NOT 81 mg. You should contact your local PROACT coordinator ASAP to clarify your dosing.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top