Swine Flu Injection

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tex

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
222
Location
manchester,england
I have just received my letter from my GP about making an appointment to go in and have my Swine Flu Jab, i have done lots of reseach and theres lots of fors and against, i am not sure what to do, i know the final discision is down to me, but any advice would really help me decide.
I had an AVR and Mitral Valve repair 1 year ago, dont known if this makes any difference. I have already had my Flu jab.
Thanks i know you guys will give me all the advice and help in deciding.
Thanks.
Jane
 
Hi Jane.
I have had recently an AVR with mechanical valve implanted therefore have to take Coumadin. When I asked the opinion of two cardiologists regarding Swine Flu and even ordinary Influenza/Flu shots, one was against and the other one was for. Personally, I am mostly concerned with a possible medication interaction with my daily Coumadin intake. Therefore, in spite of the recent Swine Flu epidemic hitting Turkey (where I live now), I will abstain from it until I get 100% evidence as to its harmlessness.
Regards.
 
Well, millions and possibly billions of people have received vaccinations over the last century. It's thought that the worst possible side effect from a vaccination is Guillain Barre Syndrome - a paralysis syndrome in which the body attacks its own nerves. The rate of full recovery from the syndrome is 85%. The chances in totality of suffering from GBS is about 1 or 2 in 100,000. Considering that most people in the US have received at least one vaccination and up to maybe... 20?... I would say the risk of developing GBS are extremely low.

From a strictly statistical and mathematical perspective using good sources for figures:

If 1:100,000 = GBS and 1:25= Death from GBS, then chances are 1:2,500,000 of developing the syndrome and dying of it.

Some sources say 2:100,000 and 1:33, but worst case scenario is maybe 2:100,000 total odds of GBS, 1:33 mortality which amounts to total risk of mortality of 1:1,665,000.

Not bad odds at all, so far.

So let's say you find that total risk acceptable, but you believe this current vaccination to be more risky. If so, maybe we should look at the statistics for just regular flu fatalities in comparison to GBS fatalities to evaluate the risk vs. benefits:


Approximately 36,000 deaths and more than 200,000 hospitalizations are directly associated with all influenza every year in the United States.

Assumed population count in US: 305,529,237

population / deaths = odds of death from flu yearly

1 in 8,487 die of any type of flu.

compared to

1 in 1,665,000 die from GBS

I sincerely doubt the risk of developing GBS from the Swine Flu vaccine are worse than 1:8,487 since health organizations the world over have been doing clinical trials with a total number of people probably exceeding 8,487. They would probably be watching for GBS, too.

Yes, we didn't count who died from GBS that was induced by the flu shot, but we can assume that most of the people who died (these are US numbers) have had at least one vaccination in their lives. It's also believed that any viral or bacterial infection can lead to GBS, and the cause of GBS is not yet understood and is not exclusive to vaccinations. GBS strikes randomly more often.

You're a valver and valvers sometimes have a harder time with bad flu infections. I would think this already kind of puts you in a higher risk category.


Some may reference the 1976 vaccination campaign by the US government, where around 550 people developed GBS. Wiki had this to say:

There were indeed reports of GBS affecting about 500 people who had received swine flu immunizations in the 1976 U.S. outbreak of swine flu — 25 of which resulted in death from severe pulmonary complications, leading the government to end that immunization campaign[11]. However, the role of the vaccine in these cases has remained unclear, partly because GBS had an unknown but very low incidence rate in the general population making it difficult to assess whether the vaccine was really increasing the risk for GBS. Later research have concluded to the absence of or to very small increase in the GBS risk due to the 1976 swine flu vaccine[12]. Besides the GBS may not have been directly due to the vaccine but to a bacterial contamination of the vaccine that triggered GBS.[13]


If you have medical conditions that make you less able to fight off influenza (like asthma, COPD, heart problems, diabetes, etc), I'd say it definitely makes sense to be vaccinated given the odds.
 
I think your age might be relevant. If you are late fifties or sixty something, seems those that age have a resistence due to exposure to previous flus and receiving previous flu vaccines.

Dr. Rosenfeld on Fox News just spoke about this being particularly dangerous for the young and especially pregnant women unlike other flu which are more dangerous to older people.

Also interesting was his comment they have found that statin drugs seem to have an affect on H1N1. It has not formally been proven but there is evidence that people on statin drugs are showing much lower rate of illness from H1N1.

There is a lot they don't know.
For many of us in the U.S. there is no decision to make whether to get the vaccination or not as it is not widely available at the present time. By December they hope to have higher supply...... will that be after the epidemic has peaked and passed?
 
"I think your age might be relevant. If you are late fifties or sixty something, seems those that age have a resistence due to exposure to previous flus and receiving previous flu vaccines."


This pont was brought up several times in the news. It makes it that much harder to decide to have the shot or not.
 
Doesn't matter what's relevant, if you live in NJ. There's no swine or seasonal flu vaccine to be had here. All the flu clinics have been cancelled and private practices are all saying they never received any at all. Hopefully, some folks got flu shots earlier.

Best wishes,
 
I'm neither for nor against people getting flu shots. I'm not planning on getting one, but I'm no expert.

But could someone please correct me if I'm wrong here, I thought I had read elsewhere on this site that a person wouldn't want to have a flu shot within a certain amount of time following their OHS?

But also, since it was mentioned earlier, I would like to mention one thing about GBS, Guillain-Barre Syndrome because a close relative, while in his 40s, came down with a severe case of it 25 years ago. (The cause of his GBS was never determined.)

Apparently the most severe cases of GBS are highly survivable, if the patient reaches the hospital in time and is put on a vent. The last time I researched GBS, there may be many milder and undiagnosed, and thus unreported, cases of it.

But in regard to my relative's experience, prior to his sudden onset of GBS, he was a vigorously healthy man. GBS swooped down on him swiftly and violently. He felt kind of tired one night, and was on a ventilator by the next afternoon. He remained on that vent for five weeks, losing 50 pounds. He never fully recovered; he's never been even close to the same. He was in the hospital for months, in a wheelchair for months afterward, then a walker for a very long time, and he still often uses two arm canes. So while he happily survived, and enjoys a quality of life, it was and is still a brutal disease.

Also, a wonderful young man in his 20s, the son of a dear friend of mine, died from GBS because he already had Cystic Fibrosis and the GBS was severe and he had to go on a vent.

I have another friend, I think in her late 50s, who came down with a severe case of GBS about two years ago and she said there are other immunizations that have afterward seen a higher incidence of GBS also. It might be something to look into.
 
Hi Lily, im not sure about a timeline from OHS to flu shot....while i was in recovery, the surgeon asked me if i wanted the flu shot , and pneumonia shot. I didnt get them at that moment, but a week after i was home, talked with cardio and surgeon again, and both recommended getting them. Now i was told to wait 30 days between the regular flu shot, and H1N1 shot. But thats not a problem, because we dont have the vaccine here yet anyway.
 
I don't remember what site I was on but the other day I found a map of the U.S. indicating what percentage of flu vaccine had been shipped to various states.

The measurement was percentage of vaccine ordered for children six months to 24 years that had arrived in the state. Most states had received (more or less) approximately 17% of the quantity they need.
 
You are more likely to develop Guillain-Barré by catching the flu!

The 1 in 100,000 figure is from old research. The most recent information suggests that perhaps 1 in 1 million people receiving a flu vaccine could develope Guillain-Barré Syndrome. It should be noted that it is more liikely to develop GBS from having the flu than from the vaccine. Also, because of the way this vaccine is made one cannot get flu from it since it contains no live virus. Here is the statement from the CDC:

Will there be a possibility of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) cases following the 2009 H1N1 vaccine?

Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) is a rare disease in which the body damages its own nerve cells, causing muscle weakness and sometimes paralysis. It is not fully understood why some people develop GBS, but it is believed that stimulation of the body’s immune system may play a role in its development. Infection with the bacterium Campylobacter jejuni, which can cause diarrhea, is one of the most common risk factors for GBS. People can also develop GBS after having the flu or other infections (such as cytomegalovirus and Epstein Barr virus). On very rare occasions, they may develop GBS in the days or weeks following receiving a vaccination.

In 1976, there was a small risk of GBS following influenza (swine flu) vaccination (approximately 1 additional case per 100,000 people who received the swine flu vaccine). That number of GBS cases was slightly higher than what is normally seen in the population, whether or not people were vaccinated. Since then, numerous studies have been done to evaluate if other flu vaccines were associated with GBS. In most studies, no association was found, but two studies suggested that approximately 1 additional person out of 1 million vaccinated people may be at risk for GBS associated with the seasonal influenza vaccine. FDA and CDC will be closely monitoring reports of serious problems following the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccines, including GBS.
 
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The odds still favor the vaccination even if your numbers are correct.

1:1,000,000 contracting GBS compared to 1:8,487 means that you're wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more likely to die of the flu this year. Hence why not get your shot?

I'm sore from my "swine flu" shot, but I feel good knowing that it's not going to take me out, and that I won't be giving the swine flu to my family. I couldn't not get it in good conscience.
 
Hi Jane,

I received my regular flu shot in September, but I don't plan on getting the other. I've decided that unless they are projecting a bad outbreak, I am not going to overly concern myself with it. Some of the doctors here I'm told, are not recommending that particular flu shot, because they did not have enought time to research it??

My regular flu shot this year was worse than last years. I am told that I wasn't the only one. The arm swelled and hurt more. That was about it though.

Good luck on your decision, you'll make the right one for you.
 
Hi Nupur,

I think sometimes the more you read, the more confusing it becomes. If you trust your Dr. and have a good rapport ask him. That's what I would do. I don't put too much stock in these reports. Seems to me they all differ. Besides, the government has been talking about a pandemic for years now, if they were genuinely concerned there are additional measures that can be taken. I try to avoid crowds,(not so easy for some people) wash hands frequently. Above all else, try to get enough rest and eat right. I have been taking 5000 mgs per day of asorbic acid, along with my muli-vitamin.

As for myself, I had my regular flu vaccine in Sep. I am not, at present planning on getting the other, unless of course my dr. says otherwise.

Oh, relax and try not to OVERWORRY!
 
I would just like to say thanks to you all for the advice, when i last visited my GP he was saying to me that he hadnt yet decided if he was going to have the Swine Flu jab himself, this speaks volumes to me, so when i go in for appointment i will be asking him again, i have every faith in my GP, so i think i will be guided by what he says.
I think here in the UK we will never known the number of true cases of Swine Flu, as what happens here is, there are phone numbers that you call if you think you have any symptoms of the flu, the staff you talk to have only had brief training, they then go through with you all your signs and symptoms and then they diagnose weather you have Swine Flu, they then give you Tamiflu, you are told where to collect it from, somebody has to go, other than you to pick it up. So thats what i mean we will never the true cases. You are not seen or examined by anybody just told over the phone you have it, how mad is this?
Thanks again for all you help i knew i could count on you all
Jane
 
I had my post-surgery follow-up meeting with my surgeon last Friday (I'm one month post-surery today).

I asked about H1N1 vacianation while I was there.

Initially he took the question from the angle of "is the vacination safe for people" and he said "yes". I clarifiied the question to "is it safe for me being a recent recipient of a Bentall Proceedure to get an H1N1 vacination and should I be rushing out to get one".

He said I should get one as it comes available for regular people (ie: I'm not in the high-risk group that is currently being innoculated here in Ottawa).

However, I'm also allergic to Penicillin and bee stings and was once told by a nurse that I should check with a doctor before getting a flu shot. I have an appointment with my GP on the 13th, so I'll bring up the issue with him and see what he as to say.
 
Well.....interesting thread. We just got our Swine Flu shots this morning. They had 80 shots available. We got to the health center at 6 in the morning and not a soul was there, so we went to vote and came back to the center. Again we were the first, but it didn't last long. We brought chairs and a blanket and sat outside for a bit, but by the time the center opened at 8 there were well over 80 people on line and more coming by the minute.

The problem was that the health department wasn't publicizing the shots.....personally I think they were saving them for their friends, but at my persistent calling and finally going down there to visit the clinic, they said they had 80 doses and would have more next week. We were lucky.....the early bird gets the shot!!!!

Evelyn
 
This thread is timely, I was just wondering what category I fall into.
I wasn't going to get the shot because the Alberta government has handled this whole thing disastrously and there was something like 9-hour waits to get the shot, which to me is ridiculous beyond belief.
I asked my cardio what his recommendation would be, and he said that, given that I fall into that higher-risk category of "under 65 with a chronic medical condition" he would advise that I get the shot.

OK, but I'm not waiting hours and hours in line.

Good luck with your decisions on this everyone!
 
This thread is timely, I was just wondering what category I fall into.
I wasn't going to get the shot because the Alberta government has handled this whole thing disastrously and there was something like 9-hour waits to get the shot, which to me is ridiculous beyond belief.
I asked my cardio what his recommendation would be, and he said that, given that I fall into that higher-risk category of "under 65 with a chronic medical condition" he would advise that I get the shot.

OK, but I'm not waiting hours and hours in line.

Good luck with your decisions on this everyone!

I have the same problem here in Saskatchewan grrrrrrr only they have said 55 years of age or older with a chronic medical condition - I've been turned away twice because I wasn't old enough, "even though you fall into the High Risk category the government has only indicated 55 or older" :mad:
It's been a 4 hour wait around here :mad:
 
You are more likely to develop Guillain-Barré by catching the flu!

The 1 in 100,000 figure is from old research. The most recent information suggests that perhaps 1 in 1 million people receiving a flu vaccine could develope Guillain-Barré Syndrome. It should be noted that it is more liikely to develop GBS from having the flu than from the vaccine. Also, because of the way this vaccine is made one cannot get flu from it since it contains no live virus. Here is the statement from the CDC:

Will there be a possibility of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) cases following the 2009 H1N1 vaccine?

Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) is a rare disease in which the body damages its own nerve cells, causing muscle weakness and sometimes paralysis. It is not fully understood why some people develop GBS, but it is believed that stimulation of the body’s immune system may play a role in its development. Infection with the bacterium Campylobacter jejuni, which can cause diarrhea, is one of the most common risk factors for GBS. People can also develop GBS after having the flu or other infections (such as cytomegalovirus and Epstein Barr virus). On very rare occasions, they may develop GBS in the days or weeks following receiving a vaccination.

In 1976, there was a small risk of GBS following influenza (swine flu) vaccination (approximately 1 additional case per 100,000 people who received the swine flu vaccine). That number of GBS cases was slightly higher than what is normally seen in the population, whether or not people were vaccinated. Since then, numerous studies have been done to evaluate if other flu vaccines were associated with GBS. In most studies, no association was found, but two studies suggested that approximately 1 additional person out of 1 million vaccinated people may be at risk for GBS associated with the seasonal influenza vaccine. FDA and CDC will be closely monitoring reports of serious problems following the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccines, including GBS.

None reported so far.
 
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