You were getting me a bit worried prior to my big day. 
Glad you getting a bit of sleep. The hospital is the worst place to try and rest
Glad you getting a bit of sleep. The hospital is the worst place to try and rest
Scary post-surgical sleep problem
- Thread starter Bill B
- Start date
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Glad I am not the only over-informed, second-guessing patient! Drove my nurses crazy, wanted to know exactly what they were giving me orally and by IV, every time they arrived with pills or new IV bags! Happy that you are now getting the sleep you wanted. I could not sleep for more than 3 hours for several weeks, then the insomnia cleared up. I think it is normal after OHS.
Gee, Bill...You're a worse patient than I am! And there are asterisks all over my medical records (*this one has opinions...*questions authority...*may bite...).
The recliner will be an enormous help to your sleeping. The hospital beds and chairs become a body-ache nightmare after a while.
Heck, just being home is much better.
Be aware that there is a bodily defense that may make you suddenly take a deep breath and feel, for lack of a better term, terrified that you're not breathing or stopped unknowingly. I have seen it described as and attributed to many different things, even a yawn response (I don't agree).
My own belief is that from the deep anesthesia, the stoppage of your lungs and heart, and the hypothermia used during the procedure, your agonal breathing reflex becomes activated. It shows up at unexpected times, along with a flush of adrenaline the body hopes will rouse you back to life (which you would well interpret as a sudden shot of terror). Of course your body is still alive, but your sats may be slightly down or some other trigger gets it activated. Whatever you attribute it to, it does dissipate over time.
It's entirely normal to be completely preoccupied with your heart and body and recuperation after OHS. We become too keenly aware of our heartbeats, inevitable palpitations, and bizarre bodily reactions that result from the surgery.
There are a lot of very individualized pains and issues that occur due to the surgery, and more that unfold as teh heart remodels (returns to its normal size and function levels). Blood pressure will roller-coaster for a few months. Palpitations will come and go, as the shrinking left ventricle gets occasionally out of sync with the rest of the heart muscle in contraction speeds. It also adjusts permanently over time to any atrial enlargements that don't resolve (it's not uncommon for the atrium not to shrink back all the way), and that can cause temporary palpitations. The reart rate is often high, and a beta clocker may be used to bring it down.
The key to much of this is its temporary nature. Obviously, if you're having a painful or scary arrhythmia, you may wish to visit the doctor or the ER. But if it's just minor flutters, it's likely just temporary. The first week or weeks, you may have low, childlike blood pressure. Then it may go to high blood pressure for a few weeks. Again, if it's at a level of concern, go to the doctor or even ER. However, if it's high, but within reasonable range, it's best not to throw drugs at it right away, because it's likely temporary.
You are well-researched, and that can be a big help to you in dealing with these issues, avoiding medical mistakes, and armchairing diagnoses and treatment options. Unfortunately, knowledge can be problematic when we are tied to psyches that are too aware, too conscious of each nuance of our healing, and we are aware of too many possibilities of things that can go wrong. And OHS creates some of that psyche in all of us (again, hopefully temporarily).
You seem to be recouperating well. It's just tough to walk that line between vigilance and acceptance.
Best wishes,
The recliner will be an enormous help to your sleeping. The hospital beds and chairs become a body-ache nightmare after a while.
Heck, just being home is much better.
Be aware that there is a bodily defense that may make you suddenly take a deep breath and feel, for lack of a better term, terrified that you're not breathing or stopped unknowingly. I have seen it described as and attributed to many different things, even a yawn response (I don't agree).
My own belief is that from the deep anesthesia, the stoppage of your lungs and heart, and the hypothermia used during the procedure, your agonal breathing reflex becomes activated. It shows up at unexpected times, along with a flush of adrenaline the body hopes will rouse you back to life (which you would well interpret as a sudden shot of terror). Of course your body is still alive, but your sats may be slightly down or some other trigger gets it activated. Whatever you attribute it to, it does dissipate over time.
It's entirely normal to be completely preoccupied with your heart and body and recuperation after OHS. We become too keenly aware of our heartbeats, inevitable palpitations, and bizarre bodily reactions that result from the surgery.
There are a lot of very individualized pains and issues that occur due to the surgery, and more that unfold as teh heart remodels (returns to its normal size and function levels). Blood pressure will roller-coaster for a few months. Palpitations will come and go, as the shrinking left ventricle gets occasionally out of sync with the rest of the heart muscle in contraction speeds. It also adjusts permanently over time to any atrial enlargements that don't resolve (it's not uncommon for the atrium not to shrink back all the way), and that can cause temporary palpitations. The reart rate is often high, and a beta clocker may be used to bring it down.
The key to much of this is its temporary nature. Obviously, if you're having a painful or scary arrhythmia, you may wish to visit the doctor or the ER. But if it's just minor flutters, it's likely just temporary. The first week or weeks, you may have low, childlike blood pressure. Then it may go to high blood pressure for a few weeks. Again, if it's at a level of concern, go to the doctor or even ER. However, if it's high, but within reasonable range, it's best not to throw drugs at it right away, because it's likely temporary.
You are well-researched, and that can be a big help to you in dealing with these issues, avoiding medical mistakes, and armchairing diagnoses and treatment options. Unfortunately, knowledge can be problematic when we are tied to psyches that are too aware, too conscious of each nuance of our healing, and we are aware of too many possibilities of things that can go wrong. And OHS creates some of that psyche in all of us (again, hopefully temporarily).
You seem to be recouperating well. It's just tough to walk that line between vigilance and acceptance.
Best wishes,
David L
Well-known member
Post surgery sleep
Post surgery sleep
BillB
If you are where I was at Stanford, the trauma center is right next door. The helicopters kept me awake day and night. Finally on the 5th day I told them to send me home so I could sleep. On day 6 they did, and I slept fine at home, and have since. It's been 15 months now and I still sleep well!!
Post surgery sleep
BillB
If you are where I was at Stanford, the trauma center is right next door. The helicopters kept me awake day and night. Finally on the 5th day I told them to send me home so I could sleep. On day 6 they did, and I slept fine at home, and have since. It's been 15 months now and I still sleep well!!
Hi, Bill, in the hospital I had very similar problems to your sleeping issue. Mine turned out to be related to the gas build up in the digestive system. I had enough that it pushed against my diaphram and made it difficult to breath when I layed down to sleep. If felt as though I was suffocating. It improved quickly when I the gas bubble finally passed. After that, I slept really soundly for a few hours until they came back in to poke me again. I hope it resolves soon.
Great thread!!!
My lessons.
If you are a healthcare professional or someone who likes to have full knowledge and control over what happens to them, you need to be very careful that you do not undermine the recovery process by expending critical energy on:
worrying, second-guessing, trying to appear smarter than or doubting the healthcare professional being paid to take care of you.
trying to care for yourself - let the healthcare professionals take care of you.
If you do not put your trust in the team caring for you, you will not be able to relax. This will interfere with absolutely necessary rest and sleep. And at some point, sleep deprivation will create further problem., and it will feed upon itself. It's hard enough already to sleep in the recovery facilities
======
In terms of eating, my appetite returned before the ability of my stomach and bowels to take care of it. The hospital food as very good and the selection was almost unlimited. Even on the last day I wolfed the breakfast food down (oatmeal with brown sugar, oj, banana, coffee, bagel and cream cheese, French toast with syrup and scrambled eggs). I was eating like I was on a cruise ship vacation. This created tremendous gastric distention, lots of belching and difficulty breathing as Mentu mentioned. I gained a pound of day over the last 3 days and that wasn't excess fluid.
But I think the key thing is to keep your anxiety to a minimum and focus entirely on rest and directed exercises. At one point mid-week, I did feel anxiety was running the show, but I have never done anything about it before. My overthinking mind is usually able to get the job done, but in the face of such an assault to the body, my overthinking just made things more difficult. Anti-anxiety medications, such as Ativan and Clonopin are VERY effective and safe especially when combined with the right logical counsel to TRUST YOUR TEAM, DON'T TO PLAY DOCTOR OR NURSE, DON'T WORRY THEY ARE NOT GOING TO DO AS GOOD A JOB AS YOU MIGHT. Pleasant thoughts combined with measured use of anti-anxiety medication can save the day.
Bob, thank you for your learned comments about the agonal breathing. That's sure what I had and may still have.
My lessons.
If you are a healthcare professional or someone who likes to have full knowledge and control over what happens to them, you need to be very careful that you do not undermine the recovery process by expending critical energy on:
worrying, second-guessing, trying to appear smarter than or doubting the healthcare professional being paid to take care of you.
trying to care for yourself - let the healthcare professionals take care of you.
If you do not put your trust in the team caring for you, you will not be able to relax. This will interfere with absolutely necessary rest and sleep. And at some point, sleep deprivation will create further problem., and it will feed upon itself. It's hard enough already to sleep in the recovery facilities
======
In terms of eating, my appetite returned before the ability of my stomach and bowels to take care of it. The hospital food as very good and the selection was almost unlimited. Even on the last day I wolfed the breakfast food down (oatmeal with brown sugar, oj, banana, coffee, bagel and cream cheese, French toast with syrup and scrambled eggs). I was eating like I was on a cruise ship vacation. This created tremendous gastric distention, lots of belching and difficulty breathing as Mentu mentioned. I gained a pound of day over the last 3 days and that wasn't excess fluid.
But I think the key thing is to keep your anxiety to a minimum and focus entirely on rest and directed exercises. At one point mid-week, I did feel anxiety was running the show, but I have never done anything about it before. My overthinking mind is usually able to get the job done, but in the face of such an assault to the body, my overthinking just made things more difficult. Anti-anxiety medications, such as Ativan and Clonopin are VERY effective and safe especially when combined with the right logical counsel to TRUST YOUR TEAM, DON'T TO PLAY DOCTOR OR NURSE, DON'T WORRY THEY ARE NOT GOING TO DO AS GOOD A JOB AS YOU MIGHT. Pleasant thoughts combined with measured use of anti-anxiety medication can save the day.
Bob, thank you for your learned comments about the agonal breathing. That's sure what I had and may still have.
Nancy
Well-known member
I'm very glad to hear that things are straightening out. I don't think you should ever be apologetic about asking questions and keeping on top of things. In the many years that Joe had so many problems, we saw way too many mistakes, ignorance, poor care, filth, medication errors, downright stupid stuff, some actually mean care, terrible nursing, and terrible doctoring.
Along with that there were also many, many angels, fantastic doctors, and excellent care.
So being vigilant is extremely important.
There was only one hospital and a unit in another when I felt comfortable leaving Joe for the evening, and could go home knowing that everything would be done perfectly.
The rest were iffy as can be. Maybe you would have good care, and maybe you wouldn't.
You did everything right, maybe a little overboard, but don't back off too much.
Along with that there were also many, many angels, fantastic doctors, and excellent care.
So being vigilant is extremely important.
There was only one hospital and a unit in another when I felt comfortable leaving Joe for the evening, and could go home knowing that everything would be done perfectly.
The rest were iffy as can be. Maybe you would have good care, and maybe you wouldn't.
You did everything right, maybe a little overboard, but don't back off too much.
Nancy: I had no evidence of any incompetence. The nurses were attentive and incredible. Things have changed since I was in healthcare, and doctors have less direct hands-on contact with the patients and trust the nurses to do much of what they used to do. It took me a while to figure this out, and at one point I felt the surgical staff was ignoring me. Obviously, a key variable is where you are and how picky you can be about selecting you surgeon and facility. I should never have questioned Dr. Miller and Stanford beyond the initial meeting, but continued to expend too much energy worrying uselessly.
Nancy
Well-known member
I'm glad you had excellent care. If you were in the medical field, then you know what things can go wrong. I don't think anyone should ever let their guard down.
You only have one life and putting it in someone else's hands is a huge leap of faith.
This time your staff was up to it. And I hope that will always be the case.
You only have one life and putting it in someone else's hands is a huge leap of faith.
This time your staff was up to it. And I hope that will always be the case.
Philip B
Well-known member
Trust
Trust
What you describe in your analysis is what I refer to as the trust factor. Having trust and confidence in your team to bring you through OHS helps a lot. Unfortunately, this is often a difficult proposition for those of us who like being in control of what's happening to us.
It's undoubtedly pretty normal stuff and I believe that the experience promotes personal growth and makes us stronger.
-Philip
Trust
What you describe in your analysis is what I refer to as the trust factor. Having trust and confidence in your team to bring you through OHS helps a lot. Unfortunately, this is often a difficult proposition for those of us who like being in control of what's happening to us.
It's undoubtedly pretty normal stuff and I believe that the experience promotes personal growth and makes us stronger.
-Philip
Star54
Well-known member
Thankfully I was less informed...I took the percocet, put the back of my bed up almost sitting up and gave myself over to la la land. Upon returning home I slept in my chaise for a very long time, as I got a double whammy, surgery recovery and pericarditis.. I graduated from the chaise to the sofa with a lot of pillows. I am finally sleeping in my bed..but hard to sleep on my left side, which I am used ...
susiesknight
Active member
I had mega sleep issues since I was awoken so often for blood testing, weighing, chest x-rays(had to go in the middle of the night in a wheel chair via elevator and at least 1/2 mile of hallways), bp/ etc measurements,and other stuff. I attribute my post op A-Fib to not getting any rest, although the A-Fib hit me the day I got home and required rehospitalization for 4 days during which I once again had little rest but superb food. Once I did make it home, I was able to sleep in my recliner with the help of a 25mg xanax to calm my brain due to loud heart beats and pvc's. Now I am 7 months post op and doing fantastic with my sleep although I don't sleep on my right side since I hear my heart too much.You will arrive there also. When I finally slept for 8 hours straight it brought back the identical feelings I had when my now 31 year-old daughter slept thru the night at 2 months for the first time!
MAJOR PROGRESS:
I decided to try sleeping in my bed. Many people have reported problems with this and slept in recliners for a month or so. Since I was still having trouble, I tried the bed. Result: 7 hours of high-quality sleep!
I got into my favorite position, WAAY over on my side with my arms and legs out in front of me, No pain changing positions.
All good!
The other issues - abdominal bloating after eating was playing a big role in labored breathing lying down and the gasping startles stopping me from going to sleep. Despite cutting down meal size, I needed some vigorous exercise to resolve that (belch!)
Good night's sleep with no abdominal bloating is a major step forward!
I decided to try sleeping in my bed. Many people have reported problems with this and slept in recliners for a month or so. Since I was still having trouble, I tried the bed. Result: 7 hours of high-quality sleep!
I got into my favorite position, WAAY over on my side with my arms and legs out in front of me, No pain changing positions.
All good!
The other issues - abdominal bloating after eating was playing a big role in labored breathing lying down and the gasping startles stopping me from going to sleep. Despite cutting down meal size, I needed some vigorous exercise to resolve that (belch!)
Good night's sleep with no abdominal bloating is a major step forward!
Danny
Well-known member
Yes Bill the bed is much better, but i still cant change positions. Everytime i try to turn on my side, the ole sternum hurts, and have to adjust to my back again. Im glad you got some much needed rest though.
B
bobhawaii
Sleep in Hawaii
Sleep in Hawaii
Aloha,
Sleep also still an issue but easing. I made the mistake and tried to live in a chair with pillows piled high the first 2 weeks, what misery. I have never been a back sleeper so that made it even worse, especially in the noisy, wake you up every half hour (for what?) hospital. Finally someone said "why don't you rent a electric tilting hospital bed"? It is $200 a month here, took all the butt numbness out, I could stretch out better, and eased some muscle tension when all I seemed to be able to do is watch the stupid tube after walking. Now I can sleep to 4 hours on my side (with REM sleep) and thats getting better daily. I echo every one else, it's an issue for every one and sleep deprivation does occur and can effect your attitude and decision making process. Hang in there.
Bob
Sleep in Hawaii
Aloha,
Sleep also still an issue but easing. I made the mistake and tried to live in a chair with pillows piled high the first 2 weeks, what misery. I have never been a back sleeper so that made it even worse, especially in the noisy, wake you up every half hour (for what?) hospital. Finally someone said "why don't you rent a electric tilting hospital bed"? It is $200 a month here, took all the butt numbness out, I could stretch out better, and eased some muscle tension when all I seemed to be able to do is watch the stupid tube after walking. Now I can sleep to 4 hours on my side (with REM sleep) and thats getting better daily. I echo every one else, it's an issue for every one and sleep deprivation does occur and can effect your attitude and decision making process. Hang in there.
Bob
More progress:
I took two naps tonight with no anti-anxiety meds needed to stop any gasping startles. I just fell asleep. I will try sleeping later with no anti-anxiety med to help me.
Gastric bloating after eating even small amounts is a remaining problem. I have to jog up and down the hall for 10 minutes, bending at all angles to relieve all the gas. I can feel my tense abdomen soften after I do this. After that I can lie comfortably and fall asleep without labored breathing or gasping. I'm not sure why I still have this problem, but I thought it might be due to the antibiotics. So, I started on Dannon Activia tonight.
I have lost all of my post-op water gain. I had better energy today and took the dog for a half-mile walk.
I took two naps tonight with no anti-anxiety meds needed to stop any gasping startles. I just fell asleep. I will try sleeping later with no anti-anxiety med to help me.
Gastric bloating after eating even small amounts is a remaining problem. I have to jog up and down the hall for 10 minutes, bending at all angles to relieve all the gas. I can feel my tense abdomen soften after I do this. After that I can lie comfortably and fall asleep without labored breathing or gasping. I'm not sure why I still have this problem, but I thought it might be due to the antibiotics. So, I started on Dannon Activia tonight.
I have lost all of my post-op water gain. I had better energy today and took the dog for a half-mile walk.
Are you still taking any pain meds? Justin has had ALOT of heart surgeries (icluding the 2 in ten days 2 years ago) and as long as he is taking any pain meds, he takes miralax (sp?) Actually one of his complaints last time, was he JUST stopped needing the meds and wasn't having gas and had another surgery that started it all over again. That time (infection surgry) he was on pain meds longer because where they moved his pec muscle was pretty painful as he worked on getting movement in his arm, but as much as he hated the taste of the miralx (said it taste like eating a styrofoam cup) he didn't have problems with gas ect
Hi Lyn:
No pain meds at all since the second post-op day. The problem appears isolated to my stomach. I'm pooping OK. I've heard good things about Miralax. Maybe I should give it a try anyway. Oh, I have started on Dannon Activia yogurt. They guarantee results in 14 days or your money back!
I also avoided pain meds, but had the gassy bloated stomach...Nurse said it was common and in hospital we were given Zantac (?) for a few days to help neutralize all the ickiness in the stomach. It does get better faster with a good neutral diet (low fat, low spice). I also included yogurt.
