ejection fraction

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PathFinder

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
165
Location
Bulgaria
Ejection fraction is one of the most important parameters being measured during pre-operation period and sometimes after it. I remember mine having been so varying, that one week pre-surgery it was estimated as 46% and just the day before surgery it was measured as 56%.

First reaction of me was "Wow, great, my cardiac function is still reasonably preserved!".

How do you think, friends, is it normal to have so marked difference between the both results and was my conclusion right?

P.S. I put the question, because my EF two months post-op was estimated as 58% so far and I'm just curious. :)

Ivo
 
I don't believe the measurements for EF are always very accurate; therefore, I don't think you should be overly concerned about a 10% decrease. The fact that within a week, the measurement varied as much as it did, should tell you that the values were not precise.
I am assuming the numbers were arrived at by means of an echo?
 
yes

yes

I mean, that I was happy, that it has increased to 56% just the day before my surgery. :)
 
E.f.

E.f.

That's good news, because I don't feel to great now a days, I"m sitting here playing on the computer and I really really want to be out riding my bike right now, but I'm too tired, I might try and go for a ride anyway. Debbie
 
High EF

High EF

Hi Debbie...

You didn't provide a lot of info about your echo and other tests or what you current status is.

EF is a subjective reading. It's not very accurate since each qualified reader of the echo images will interpret the dopler image their own way. They're probably a plus or minus 10%.

That said, I would wish you could post more information on your condition. An EF of 76% is perhaps too high unless you're a tour de France racer. It can also be indicative of other issues such as mitral valve failure since the valve allows blood to pass the wrong way into the lungs by not making a tight seal during a ventricle contraction that would normally cause flow elsewhere. It raises the EF by a large evacuation of the chamber but the blood flow is going where it shouldn't go. This could be accompanied by shortness of breath and fluid in the lungs. Do you cough when you lay down at night? Low energy? If these sound familiar get in touch with a cardiologist as soon as possible.

You said you're not feeling very well. What are your symptoms?

Take care.

Jerry
 
Going back and reading your posts since you've joined the site earlier this month and reading your profile has filled me in a bit more... enough anyway to offer some amateur advice.

I'd say that the high EF is not a positive thing for you right now. Regardless of riding your bike you're still not a Tour racer. ;) The VW convertible could raise your pulse rate a bit though. Nice ride, Lady.

Continue following up with the cardio. You're BP history and pulmonary valve history in conjuction with your tiredness and not feeling too well indicates a need for a check up.
Jerry
 
Ejection Fraction And Ventricular Hypertrophy

Ejection Fraction And Ventricular Hypertrophy

Pathfinder, I note that shortly after the operation, most people who had them still have high ejection fractions, because their ventricles have not yet reduced in size. Your ejection fraction was still in the normal range before the surgery, so you may not have experienced the dramatic LV enlargement that many people experience. The difference between the readings is not a surprise, as both the EF and the measurement vary with each reading. A healthy heart should be able to recover to an EF wthin th normal range.

Debbie, I would not consider your high ejection fraction to be a good thing at this point, based on the contents of your post. It might be good for a competition bicycle racer, but for most of us mortals, it's a symptom of our valve issues.

Here's a mildly edited version of one of my older posts, attempting to explain ejection fraction and the ventricular hypertrophy cycle...

Ejection Fractions fluctuate fairly easily, and can be misleading. They do change with anxiety, and sometimes even with the positioning of the heart during the echo. Like blood pressure, the number only becomes trustworthy with repetition. Unlike blood pressure readings, echoes can't be taken between office visits at home.

A high ejection fraction can be developed through atheletic pursuits. However, it's more often the case that it's a result of left ventricular hypertrophy, the muscular enlargement of the left ventricle that develops when the heart is put to severe service. With regurgitation or stenosis, the heart is pumping very hard to get the proper amount of blood to your body, as much of what it pumps out leaks back into the ventricle, or trying to exit into the aorta through a very narrow hole.

The ventricle, like other muscles, enlarges when it's worked harder. Think of it as a small hand, squeezing a small orange for juice. You might get half of the juice with a good squeeze. Imagine the orange in a somewhat larger and stronger hand. It can can get a better grip, squeeze harder, and get 70% of the juice out of the orange. More efficient.

Now imagine the little orange in a giant, Mickey Mouse-sized mitt. Suddenly, the hand is so large, it's too big to wrap tightly around the tiny citrus anymore, and no longer has the flexibility or leverage to compress the fruit evenly and push the juice out effectively. As the hand continues to grow, the once very high Juice Ejection Fraction suddenly plummets.

That's the cycle of valve-induced left ventricular hypertrophy that eventually ends in heart failure (call it "Mickey Mouse ventricle"). The left ventricle outgrows its ability to compensate for the valve leakage.

While it may sound good to have a high EF, when it's due to this type of problem, it's a sign of reaching the top of a slow cycle that has a bad ending (if there isn't surgical intervention). This is a cycle that the vast majority of aortic valve patients get at least partway through. It doesn't happen overnight. There's time to decide your best course.

There is much information in this site's Reference Sources forum. It's a good place to look for some basic information. It's good to keep an awareness of dates on the writings, as things change rapidly in the heart valve world. However, the issues you are researching are stable information, and shouldn't have that issue.

Best wishes,
 
E.f.

E.f.

Thanks tobagotwo for the reply, all your info. you gave was regarding the left side of the heart, I've got a bad pulmonary valve, which is on the right side, so how does that factor into all this? Thanks Debbie
 
Here's my quick take on it, for what it's worth...

Basically, the left side of your heart is doing double duty for the right side. The right side pushes blood through the lungs for aeration. When blood backs up, the force of the left side helps to push it through. Thus, the physical demand of the left side compensating causes a long-distance relationship between the right side leakage and the left side hypertrophic cycle.

Your left ventricle is hyperdynamic (pumping too hard), and probably hypertrophic (enlarged in a muscular way). That would be in your echoes. So the above still applies, although the origin of the problem is on the right side. Your right ventricle is dilated (enlarged, but stretched, rather than more muscular), and less responsive, which is from being battered by the pressure of the overload of blood that occurs when blood leaks back from the pulmonary regurgitation. It might also show as hypertrophic, from muscle growth during the years it put in managing the regurgitation by itself, but it's not likely to be a very effective hypertrophy any longer, in terms of aiding pumping.

Another place I would look at is the right atrium, which may also show enlargement from the backpressure.

This is a quick reply, as I need to get to work, so I will try to get back to looking at this again at a later point.

Best wishes,
 
Debbie said:
That's good news, because I don't feel to great now a days, I"m sitting here playing on the computer and I really really want to be out riding my bike right now, but I'm too tired, I might try and go for a ride anyway. Debbie

I'm in agreement with Bob on this, Debbie, but I want to point out to you that the tiredness and the fact that you "...don't feel to great now a days" could be additional warning signs.

You've said that your reading of the 76 EF is from an echo done 15 months ago. Keep in mind that you should be monitored closely by a reputable cardiologist. An annual echo should be done. There are many pro athletes that have crossed the great divide because they didn't have a known condition such as yours followed regularly. The Father of modern running, Jim Fix, comes to mind for one.

The long and the short of this is that you should get an appointment and get yourself checked out as soon as possible. There may very well be nothing amiss but why risk missing something?

Take Care

Jerry
 
E. F.

E. F.

Hey everyone, thanks for all the info. I'm alittle confused now, you say a high E.F. isn't bad (76), but computec said right before his surgery his was 65. ??:confused: Debbie
 
EF Confusion

EF Confusion

An EF in the 60s is a high normal. An EF of 76 is rare for those who are NOT athletes. A normal EF, a high EF and a low EF are less important than the "reason" they're the way that they are as determined by an echo showing the structures of the heart. An abnormally high EF can be a sign of the heart enlarging to compensate for a structural change as Bob said. Just because EF has the connotation of "Efficiency" doesn't necessarily make a high number better for it's own sake.

When you say that you're tired and not feeling well, Debbie, when taken in conjunction with the high EF, these symptoms can be indicative of a problem. Your cardiologist would be able to tell you if your 76 is because you're physically in great shape or for another reason.

I believe that Pathfinder was the only person on this thread that said that the high (76) EF "...can't be better. ;) " High is good but too high in not good if it's for the wrong reason. Like blood pressure. 200/130 is "high" but not good. For the average mortal you want a "normal" EF.

I hope this clears up the confusion.

Jerry
 
E.f.

E.f.

Computec, thanks for all the posts. I understand the E.F. is just one small # in the big picture of the whole problem, it's good to learn more about it. I've got a short appt. with a ACHD doc. this friday, yea!!:) I'll let you know what he says. Debbie
 
Debbie said:
Computec, thanks for all the posts. I understand the E.F. is just one small # in the big picture of the whole problem, it's good to learn more about it. I've got a short appt. with a ACHD doc. this friday, yea!!:) I'll let you know what he says. Debbie

do you have reports from previous years echos?
 
The issue of EF came up after my MV Repair in February - my heart was showing weakness with a low EF (33%). During my conversations with my cardiologist regarding EF, he told me the EF is usually higher when you are ready to have surgery because the heart is compensating for the damaged valve. I happen to have 13 years worth of echo results where I started at a 1 (mild) and ended up at a 3++. I decided to sit down and put his information to the test. I noticed I was mostly in the 50's until my echo in October '06, the last one before my surgery in February. It was 74%.

PS My echo in June showed me back in the 50's!
 
My EF was 78 about a year ago, and believe me I am no athlete...I cant walk up even slight hills and only very slowly up the stairs......but still nothing is being done for me. Its sooo frustrating.
 
Oh and I forgot to say, Thomas' EF about a year ago was 50...he is only 16 and was quite physically active up until last December when he passed out due to a VERY FAST hb. An echo showed all the chambers in his heart on the high side...just above normal..????

Does this EF sound low for someone young.
 

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