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R

Roosty

Hi

I am new here and looking for some help. I am 47 and have a BAV with 2+ regurg and a mildly dilated root of 42mm. The root seems to have been pretty stable over the past ten years. I had a CT angio done 18 months ago that showed the root to be fusiform at 42X39mm. I am 5'10 and 170 pounds. I also have Mitral Valve Prolapse that has been stable over the past 10 years. I read all these accounts of people who had dissections at relatively low aortic root diameters and of course it freaks me out. I am very healthy in general and can exercise normally.

On top of all this I am a family Doctor and I know all the complications! Sometimes knowledge is a dangerous thing. Anyway, just wanted to say hi to the group and thanks!
 
Hi Roosty and welcome to the forums or the insane asylum, whichever or however you look at it.

Yes I bet it does suck to know these things from your prospective. I'm a rupture survivor myself. Mine never made it to the magic 5.0 and blew around 4.7. I now have an abdominal that were watching and I have to say I don't care how big it is, I want it gone!
 
Welcome to the site; glad you found it. When I had my bicuspid replaced, my mitral valve began working much better and didn't need repair or replacement afterall, which had been discussed as a possibility.

Hoping all goes well for you :) .
 
Rootsy, my diameter is 4.2-4.5ish too. Scares the crap out of me, and I've pretty much decided I'm going to wait until at least 09. Unless something crazy happens.

What's a regurgitation of +2? If your valve is bad enough, it might just be logical to go in now and get everything fixed all at once. Even with a "modest" aneurysm.

One more question: As a doctor, is it common to downplay the seriousness of someone's ailment as a way of protecting them or something? My doctors poo-poo my aneurysm and my symptoms, but I know damn well I'm at least a mildly symptomatic. They act like I shouldn't worry at all. Is that usually an act?
 
First of all thanks to all.

Aaron, to answer your question, doctors aften do downplay things but not for the reasons you might think. I am a yoga and meditation teacher and adopt Eastern Medicine as well as western in my practice. Western doctors are SUPPOSED to know everything, it builds confidence in the patient and that confidence cannot be understated. The mind body connection is HUGE, but typical western docs dont address or accept this very readily. We get used to dealing with stats and numbers. Now if your root is 6cm, sure, no doubt you need surgery. But everyone is different and thats what screws up western docs. We like things scientific and concrete and really dont do well with uncertainty. If you look at the reasons many of us became doctors inthe first place it was to obtain some certainty or power over illness. It is amazing how many surgeons had a parent with cancer, for example.

OK, I am rambling here. My point is that doctors want to help and they want to be reassuring. It is hard to reassure a pateint when you dont know yourself, which to be blunt, cardiologists just dont know outside of stats who is going to dissect and who isnt. They know that 95% of people at 45mm (I dont know the official stats) are usually fine, but there is that 41mm dissection that throws them for a loop and exposes that they dont know after all. So they reaasure you AND themselves with the same stats. Most of the time they are right, AND they err onthe side of surgery as losing a patient doesn't look or feel good to a doctor.

My yoga and meditation practice has helped me beyond my wildest dreams. One of my wisest teachers says that the day of your death is pre-ordained and humans (and doctors) can dance around it as much as they want to, but when its your time to go, its your time to go. I find that strangely comforting, especially in light of all the valve choices mech/tissue, for example. In essence it is surrendering to the universe which, as I am still a hard core western MD, I find hard to do, but wiht meditaiton and yoga daily,its getting easier. Doctors like to feel they have power of illness (like the surgeons with the sick parent) , but they really dont. THey are conduits of healing rather than the healing itself.

Probably the most drawn out rambling evasive answer to anyones question there has ever been. HAHA

I am a doc and a pro stand up comic, so I have a bit of a different view of the world, if any of you are interested you can go to my website www.dr-russ.com

And thanks, I look forward to chatting with you guys. Its great to know others have the same thing and can understand how I feel.

Russ
 
Just wanted to say welcome to VR Dr. Rootsy! :) Sometimes the best knowledge is "hands on experience" & you couldn't have come to a better place for that! And it helps that you're a "stand up comic" too, afterall, don't they say "laughter is the best medicine!" :)

Wishing you well with your ongoing health issue & welcome! :)
 
Welcome!

Welcome!

Hi Russ,

Just wanted to wish you a warm welcome to this wonderful site from another fellow Canuk. I just came across it this past week and it has been a God send!
Sorry to hear of your situation and sending you my best wishes,
 
Roosty, are you this slippery in the examination room? :D

No really, that was a decent explanation. They have to exude a certain confidence so the patient can feel confident too. But I usually recognize the BS and it pisses me off TBH.

It's good to hear a doctor's perspective. I'm glad you found your way here.
 
We usually try to "lovebomb" newcomers, but in this situation our subconscious resentment of doctors must've surfaced. :D I'm truly pulling your leg, man. You're a comedian too so I think you can take it; which by the way is a weird combination. Usually doctors are Soooo dry.

When are you planning on getting this repaired? Are you consulting surgeons? Usually they won't touch you until 4.5 or 5.0 cm, but I think you probably know that. If you're symptomatic they'll do it sooner. Like you said, there's no one size fits all criteria.

BTW, Have you seen the movie "The Doctor"?
 
Welcome to Our World (Dr.) Russ -

Your coming to our 'family' just goes to show that when one becomes a Heart Valve Patient "looking for help", it doesn't much matter what their professional credentials are, the 'internal feelings' are the same.

I expect that you already know the drill, when you need a complex surgery, find a surgeon with Lots of Experience doing the Procedure YOU Need. This seems to be especially true for Surgery of the Aorta which from my perspective seems to be beyond the 'comfort zone' of most (Bypass and Valve Replacement) Heart Surgeons.

The Top West Coast Aortic Surgeons I've seen mentioned here are Dr. Craig Miller at Stanford and Dr. Raissi at Cedars-Sinai in L.A. (I hope I remembered the right hospital for Dr. Raissi)

Dr. Tyrone David at Toronto General seems to be the most well known (and very highly regarded) Canadian surgeon.

You can use the "Search" feature on the Blue Line at the top of the page to find out what our members have had to say about those surgeons.

If you've read any of my previous posts, you should know my favorite valves :)

Look around the Forums and let us know if / how we might help you.

'AL Capshaw'
 
I bet you are really ...

I bet you are really ...

... fun to visit as a patient. Sadly, I cant go to Canada from Georgia for a sinus infection. Some day I may PM you to get a doctors perspective on the Canadian Health Care System, but I won't touch that now.
Welcome to the group and good luck with your own situation. My wife had an OB that was running Marathons and then, one day, he couldn't walk across the floor. (Valve Replacement came soon after) Just goes to show that Docs are PEOPLE too.
Ask any questions you may have!
 
Hello Roosty, my wife is a GP so I can sympathise with the medical knowledge as a hindrance as well as a help angle. There are of course advantages to being part of the medical establishment, quicker, easier and wider consultant access, franker disclosures, spring to mind. :)

Re your stand up career, have you heard of Phil Hammond? He's a medic making quite a name over here in the UK comedy. (Opportunity for poaching material maybe? :eek: ;) )
 
Guidelines

Guidelines

Hey Roosty,

I'm sure as a GP you have read the guidelines but if not, here is a quick summary.

You have been stable, and less than 5.5 cm at the root.
I assume your EF is better than 50% as you did not mention otherwise.
If this summarizes you, clinical evaluation every 6 mos, and echo yearly.
(2006 ACC/AHA guidelines for valvular heart disease.)

There is some interesting new data in patients such as yourself from the Cleveland Clinic. Younger patients need earlier intervention, and need to get a valve that does not have mismatch for best results. (Milhaljevic_08_JTCVS.)
If you PM me, I can send it to your personal e-mail if you would like.

Good luck with everything.
 
Western doctors are SUPPOSED to know everything, it builds confidence in the patient and that confidence cannot be understated. The mind body connection is HUGE, but typical western docs dont address or accept this very readily.

First of all, welcome. I hope the perspectives expressed on this site are useful to you. You obviously have lots of access to the technical side, but I hope that exposure to the experiences so many people here have gone through helps you process your own situation.

You seem very thoughtful about the art and science of healing, so - in a similar vein to Oaktree - I just want to pass along the perspective that, as an educated, hopefully intelligent consumer, I've been particularly grateful to doctors who have acknowledged what they know and what they don't know. I've ended up with far more confidence when the doctor himself or herself acknowledges and discusses the limits of our collective knowledge or of their individual knowledge. As a professional in a non-medical field, I find that this much better comports with my sense of reality and therefore instills much greater trust.

All the best,
Leah
 
...I just want to pass along the perspective that, as an educated, hopefully intelligent consumer, I've been particularly grateful to doctors who have acknowledged what they know and what they don't know. I've ended up with far more confidence when the doctor himself or herself acknowledges and discusses the limits of our collective knowledge or of their individual knowledge. As a professional in a non-medical field, I find that this much better comports with my sense of reality and therefore instills much greater trust...
Which reminds me, for what it's worth, of a study I once read in regard to the relative competence of people with various technical skills.

As I recall, the study reported that the more competent people tended to not be overly-confident, having a broader comprehension of what they were facing. And the overly-confident people tended to be less competent, in part because they had less of a comprehension of their own limitations and of other potential and important variables. Made sense to me.
 
Hi Doctor!

Hi Doctor!

OK, you mentioned, that you have aortic regurgitation (AR). You poste in the bicuspid valve section, so I understand, that you are a bicuspid valver. You have a stable aortic root dilation, which haven't changed for about 10 years. Since you don't have a progression in the root diameter (usually measured at the sinuses of valsalva), they will probably not put you under the knife. Currently, the aortic root sizes are indexed for the body surface area, so I am sure your cardiologists assume that and they are looking after it. Normaly, a healthy root (at the S. Vals.) is meaured between 20-37 mm. However, those numbers mean nothing, since there is the BSA/AoRo index.

Aortic regurgitation in the BAV valvers is commonly caused by a root dilation. Often, a change in the diameter and shape of the sinotubular junction may pull the valves comissures/leaflets to the point where they can not coapt well (insuficient closure). However, a dilatation in the S.Vals. doesn't nessecery means a STJ dilatation. It means more commonly an aortic annulus dilatation - the result of it is regurgitation. Regurgitation may also be caused by a leaflet restriction, when a fibrous thickening occures in result of the altered haemodynamics of the valve (you know, that if you are BAV, your valve has worked inproperly since your first heart beat). The aortic regurgitation is usually scaled from 0+ (trace reg.) to the great 4+ (where the valve almost doesn't close). Actualy, a reg. scaled at 2+, as yours is called "moderate" and is very well tolerated by the myocardium with different mechanisms, called cardiac reserve.

One of these mechanisms is eccentric hypertrophy (by aortic stenosis it is concentric). Then your heart muscle becomes thickener (stiffer) to take the overload of the regurgitant volume.

Even if the regurgitation becomes more severe and hit the 3 -> 3+, your myocardium still may have the tolerance. However with the time, the extra blood volume will make it "tired" and slowly it's abbility to pump sufficient all the blood will begin to fall down. Years ago, a surgery was admitted, when the ejection fraction falls under 46-49%. Nowadays, the echocardiography follows quite different values of the hearts work, like intramyocardial velocities, fibre-shortening, fractional shortening... and surgery may be warranted at an earlier stage, to prevent a myocardial damage.

As for the mitral valve prolapse. It is a common finding in hearts with very-long lasting regurgitation. The AR jet strikes thousend times a day the anterior mitral leaflet (AML) and its chordaes taendinae. Sometimes, depending on the jet shape and velocity, it causes damage of the leaflets/chordaes tissue, making it fibrous-thickened, elongating the chordaes (making them thinner) and as a result a prolapse of the AML appears besides the fluttering.

Sometimes, the bicuspid aortic valve is associated with a disorder of the connective tissue. However a culprit gene has not been found, so there may be a faulty gene-transcription, which in some patients may cause some more systemic signs of connective tissue disorder.

The mystery of the BAV disease is still very unclear. However some things are already known: from the genetics point of view BAV may be primary to deffective valvular genesis, or secondary to another cardio-disorder. Both have been found to have a percent of hereditarity: for the BAV, it is estimated about 10-30%, with an autosomal dominant (with reduced penetrance) pattern of inheritance in the familial cases.

Current hypotheses put 2 directions for researches of the appearance of a BAV: one is the genetic disorder, causing also the vascular effects of the disease, and the second is the haemodynamical. the second researches the hydraulic and mechanical forces, found in the valves with tho leaflets, and its effect on the aortic walls and structures.

I hope, I was clear with my "east european english"! ;)

Best wishes,
Ivo :D
 
Hey Pathfinder, have you considered medical school? I think you've found your calling my friend.

Seriously, I learned alot from your post, and I think your posts are consistently invaluable.
 

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