Is this normal?

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Robbyn

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 13, 2004
Messages
92
Location
Ontario, Canada
I took a rather nasty fall on Thursday. I fell directly on my knee cap. It was very painfull so I went to the hospital to make sure I didn't break or fracture it. It is a bruised knee cap. The problem is the doctor said I probably have 2 litres of blood in my leg. Last week my INR was 4.7 this week it is 1.9. Is this normal when someone falls, to have such excessive bleeding????? It happened on Thursday, and the low INR was on Sat.

It is VERY painfull. She said it is going to take weeks to heal.

Thanks for your help,
Robbyn
 
2 liters sounds like an awful lot. Was your leg horribly swollen? If I read you correctly, you are saying your INR was already on it's way down when you had the accident. I had a similar accident a few winters ago and my INR was above 3. I had some lovely bruising, but no bleeding into tissues. The doctor was right about one thing, you will be sore for a while.

Your INR took such a dive in a week, I'm guessing that the 4.7 may have been somewhat of a false reading and your Coumadin was adjusted way too much. I just had an INR of 4.6, 2 weeks ago, had some V8 juice, a nice salad took 73 mg in a week instead of 76 and my INR was 3.5 a week later. If I make drastic adjustments my INR tanks and I start a tough road of bringing it back up. I'd rather be 4.7 than 1.9. It's much easier to lower an INR than to raise it.
 
Robbyn,

You may be interested in reading the account of my SHIN Bruise under the thread name "BIG Bump on Shin" starting Feb. 27, 2005 in the Anti-coagulation Forum.

Bottom Line: I had a HUGE Hematoma, bled into leg after a few days, then bled into foot and toes. Took 6 WEEKS to recover. Had to use crutches when I would first stand as the leg / foot adjusted to the blood flowing downward due to gravity. VERY uncomfortable for the first few minutes, then I could walk OK until I laid down again.

My INR remained stable (the few times it was checked).

These kinds of things happen to those of us on Coumadin. Keep an eye on it and if anything unusual occurs CHECK IT OUT.

In the mean time, be patient. It's not going to go away tomorrow!

'AL Capshaw'
 
BROTHER BUMped his toe in the shower - w/in hrs his whole foot/ankle had turned purple/red/pink - took him to hospital and they didn't get too excited. It settled down eventually, but they watched his INR
 
Joe took a terrible fall in Feb. He fell on his left side. Nothing broken, but a horrible bruise (which was black, almost) that extended from his kidney area to his foot, and into tissues. He ended up in the hospital for over two weeks, one in a rehab facility.

He had to use a walker and then a cane for a while and had physical therapy. He's OK now.

So, yes, falls can cause a lot of trauma, and Coumadin, while not causing the initial bleeding, can contribute to continued bleeding.

The doc had to lower his dosage a little to stop the interior bleeding. Not a good thing, but there was no alternative, his counts were starting to drop.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I read your link Al it was interesting. I think it is still bleeding. I goes from my thigh to my foot, my knee is hot and I am on antibiotics. My doctor is gone for the rest of the week. I will be getting my INR checked tomorrow and will find out the results then. I hate Coumadin!@!!^&%%
 
It sounds like you may have crushed or severed a fairly decent sized blood vessel. I would get it looked at again ASAP, particularly if your leg appears to continue to get bigger.
 
Robbyn

Robbyn

Sorry to hear of your fall..Can you tell us..How did you fall?We coumadin members seem to get too relaxed..(forgetting that we are on coumadin) :( :( Today..I slipped on some bedroom slippers to run outsideto give Hubby a message. Missed a step..but caught myself in time :eek: Never wear slippers outside. :eek: Not the same as having on good shoes...Bonnie
 
Can you tell if it is still bleeding?

You knee being HOT caught my attention.
I would at least call the 'on call physician'
or if that isn't an option, call the hospital.
(and don't be surprised if the nurse at the
hospital tells you to come to the ER...
They told me to come IMMEDIATELY,
don't drive myself, but then took 3 hours
before I was even called in... I hate going
to the ER!)

'AL Capshaw'
 
Hi Bonnie,

The reason I fell is because I was taking very high does of Prednisone (for another disease). I am now weaning down but it has affected the muscles in my legs causing them to be weak. My husband says "Please be more careful". I have walked across the little piece of trim going into the bathroom a million times and never had a problem. How do you be more careful? Glad you were able to catch yourself before you fell . I was wearing slippers too!
 
V 8

V 8

Does V 8 juice really help in bringing down the INR range? If so where did you hear that from. I have all kinds of lists listing foods with high vit. K & haven't seen V 8 juice. thank you loret
Karlynn said:
2 liters sounds like an awful lot. Was your leg horribly swollen? If I read you correctly, you are saying your INR was already on it's way down when you had the accident. I had a similar accident a few winters ago and my INR was above 3. I had some lovely bruising, but no bleeding into tissues. The doctor was right about one thing, you will be sore for a while.

Your INR took such a dive in a week, I'm guessing that the 4.7 may have been somewhat of a false reading and your Coumadin was adjusted way too much. I just had an INR of 4.6, 2 weeks ago, had some V8 juice, a nice salad took 73 mg in a week instead of 76 and my INR was 3.5 a week later. If I make drastic adjustments my INR tanks and I start a tough road of bringing it back up. I'd rather be 4.7 than 1.9. It's much easier to lower an INR than to raise it.
Click to expand...
 
loretta said:
Does V 8 juice really help in bringing down the INR range? If so where did you hear that from. I have all kinds of lists listing foods with high vit. K & haven't seen V 8 juice. thank you loret
Click to expand...

Yes it does. I don't know where exactly the knowledge comes from because K is not listed on the nutritional information.
 
Somebody on here wrote to them and was told that they were not required to list it, so they would not do so.
 
Lowering INR

Lowering INR

Recently when my INR was too high I was advised to drink a litre (qt?) of carrot juice within 24 hours--it worked.
 
Carrots have a moderate amount of vitamin K. If you drink enough, you will get an effect.
 
Karlynn said:
Yes it does. I don't know where exactly the knowledge comes from because K is not listed on the nutritional information.
Click to expand...

I have a copy of the USDA National Nutrient Database... Vitamin K. It lists "vegetable juice cocktail... canned" 1 cup serving. The 1 cup serving has 12.8 micrograms of Vitamin K. (And loads of sodium in the regular variety!)

I went to the V-8 website recently and they definitely don't list the Vitamin K. They have a response form & I said that since the Vitamin K content was fairly high it would really be helpful to the many, many people on anti-coagulants if they would list it. Big surprise... I haven't received a response :rolleyes:

Cris
 
Don't feel bad Cris, I've inquired many times and have never received a response either. I know it depends on which variety your buy, as to what the exact Vit K content is, but they don't seem to be interested in answering anything.
 
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