Heart Cath Question...

[Abbanabba]

Hi y'all...

Since coming to this site, I have read some wonderful and quite descriptive (..read: "scary"!..) information about heart caths, but after doing a little independent research the other day, I have a couple of questions....

Have any of you had the cath inserted through your neck or arm? Considering how long you need to remain prone after insertion through the groin, I thought this might be a more comfortable (..and practical..) option, but didn't know if it was very common, or if it was even offered as an option.

I was also curious at the potential side effects. Has anyone had an adverse experience from this and what were you told about side effects prior to the procedure?

Cheers
Anna : )

 

[Bryan B]

Anna,

My 2nd cath was done through my right arm (mind you this was over 30 years ago). I don't have a clue as to why they chose that method for entry as my other 3 caths have all been througth the right groin. It did leave a nasty scar (that I still have) that the groin entries seem to hide better. I really don't know the technical reasons as to why they chose going through the arm that one time. Siince I was being followed by the militry at that time I don't know if that made a defference. My recovery time was about the same, but I guess I didn't have to lay as stil compared to the groin method.

 

[RCB]

History of Caths

History of Caths

The very first caths were done in the arm by a doctor on himself!
This was in the early part of last century. Transradial( through the arm) cath were the method of choice in my first two OHS in the early '60's. In my last surgery 1982 cath were being done through the legs. One of the reasons
that was given to me was that the vessels are larger and allow larger stenting device to be used. Ask your doctor if he is
willing to do the cath. by the arm= he may do it. There are articles on both methods - controversey. I had four or five in the arm and they seemed easier, but I was young then when everything surgical is easier.

 

[lance]

heart cath question

heart cath question

My one and only heart catheterization procedure was done throught my arm.

Unfortunately this resulted in a tear in the vein. To repair the tear the vein was sewn shut!

If there is a next time I will opt through the groin.

In a hospital in southern Ontario I was not fully informed of this risk. What was mentioned was "surgical intervention".

I fully realize that thousands of caths are done through the arm and I am in a minority that experienced this problem.

It is absolutely imperative that every bit of information about heart condition should be determined prior to heart surgery.

My valve has been replaced and I am doing very well.

 

[Turkey Hunter]

my only cath was through my right arm.

I question my cardio later and his response was something to the effect of..... If we are just looking and measuring (i.e. measuring regurgitation, ect..) then it would always be through the arm at Cleveland Clinic. If there was a chance at all of any procedure being performed..... they would go through the groin. Being the groin area has a much larger artery and they can insert tools to perform angioplasties, ect.....

Hope that helps.

Ben

 

[ALCapshaw2]

Thanks for the interesting explanation defining cath site selection at CC Ben.

Anna - There are several different 'closing procedures' for groin catheterizations ranging from the old tried and true sand bag for several hours laying perfectly flat to using a huge C clamp (that's what my hospital uses now) followed by a 'pressure bandage' which requires about half the time of the sand bag method to using a 'stitch or two' which allows the patient to walk away in an hour or so. ASK your hospital which method they use.

FWIW, I've lost count of how many cath's I had, but it's well into the double digits, all through the groin.

'AL'

 

[Raverlaw]

Anna,

My very first heart cath (in 1963) was a radial through the left arm. In those ancient days, I was hospitalized for three days for the procedure! I was 9 years old at the time and it was done to diagnose the reason for my heart murmur (they didn't have echocardiograms then).

My second cath was done through the groin about two months before the surgery. My cardio explained that the femoral artery is larger and gives them more options to investigate or correct what they find.

My doctor used a device manufactured by St. Jude Medical called an "angioseal" which looks, in lay terms, like a plastic drywall anchor you would use to hang a heavy picture on your wall. The angioseal is made of collagen which is absorbed into the body in about 90 days. I had to lay still for about two hours; then they let me walk around and kept me under observation in the the ICU for a couple more hours until they were sure I wouldn't spring a leak.

The whole cath thing was painless and interesting to watch - I was on Percoset or something like it and was pretty "happy" during the whole event.

 

[Abbanabba]

Thanks for your replies everyone. I'll be seeing a new cardiologist next Thursday (..for a much anticipated second opinion about what's been going on..) so I'll be chatting to him about it, but I just wanted to get a little "real" insight before I did. At this point the RHC will be to check my arterial pressure, so I don't know what the preferred method will be.

Seems no-one so far has had a cath done through the neck - I would have thought those veins would have been just as big as those in the groin, but I could be wrong (..wouldn't be the first time!! ..).

Meanwhile, I still sport two decent sized scars from the caths I had as a kid. Both of these were through the groin, but thankfully I don't remember very much at all about anything back then. Considering how big they are, I'm really hoping they've stretched as I've grown

Gotta love looking like a road map!!

Cheers
Anna : )

 

[Harpoon]

The cath through the leg isn't a "terrible" experience (or at least, it shouldn't be.)

Mine's pretty vivid so I'll give you a run-down of my experience (I'm killing time at the office...)

They had me lay down on a low table, I noticed that part right away. it's lower than the regular operating table and I think that's so the doc can sit during the procedure.

I had a "foley" but it wasn't the typical inserted kind which was nice. I guess this only applies to men. Fair warning guys, it takes some effort and guts to pull that sucker off, even with the swabs they give you, Oy!

(If you don't know, you don't have to ask)

Anyways, I was drapped over with a bunch of nice warm blankies, they actually had a special blanket warmer in the room, pretty nice. They prepped both sides of my groin, but only used the right. I could feel the initial start, it pinched and was cold and a little uncomfortable, but it was over real quick and I was fairly comfortable the rest of the time.

When they get the cath up into your heart (I could see some of the monitors they had which was neat) you'll feel a lot of fluttering now and then. It'e REALLY weird and can be a little unnerving, but it's supposed to happen and they're all watching to make sure your heart recovers right away.

I think I was in for about an hour or so, maybe less. After that I was brought up to a room and had to lay their for the next eight hours. I got a nice meal, my wife (fiance' at the time) fed me. I was pretty comfortable through that though my back started acting up at one point which it does if I sit in one position for too long, fused vertebrae in my lower spine... A nurse helped me out though, setting a pillow under the spot in my back which relieved the pressure and "cramp."

After about 5 or so hours they let me be elevated some so the uppe half of the bed was at maybe a 35 degree angle. I nice change after laying flat for so long.

I chose to spend the night at the hospital. They would have let me out after the eight hours, but it was late and I figured it would be easier on me than having to get up wicked early tne next morning to come back for more tests.


If you can (I wish I had thought of it) bring a portable CD player with some CD's.

They may be willing to play the CD's for you over a "house system" if it's available though you should be OK to wear a headset through the procedure.

I wish I had had mine for both the cath and ESPECIALLY the MRI which was two hours of elevator music hell!!!


The computers kept crashing during the exam.... Grrrrrrr.......

 

[KimC]

Anna,

I'm not an expert, but I'm well-read and everything I've researched recommends the groin for female caths.

I wish you all the best!

Kim

 

[Abbanabba]

It wasn't until I started looking into the procedure that I found out they even did it anywhere but the groin.... that's why I was curious about everyone else's experiences.

I guess I'm just a big sook!! I had a tentus shot a while back and the nurse had to distract me with one of the kids toys (..a fluffy purple dinosaur, if memory serves me correctly ..). Today I'm getting a flu shot - oh for joy!!! My stomach is churning already

Cheers
Anna : )

 

[Nancy]

Joe's had several caths. The first one was in the arm, in the 70's, he's also had them in the neck, and most in the groin. He had a real beaut to diagnose his pulmonary hypertension which was a right heart cath in the neck-via Swan-Ganz catheter. That was sutured in place for two days while they tried different pulmonary hypertension medications to see which ones would work for him. That's not a normal procedure. It was uncomfortable, and not easy for me to look at. But it probably saved his life. The results of that cath determined his current combination of medications, which have improved his health tremendously. Compared to that, the groin scenario is a walk in the park.

 

[Georgia]

I'm a wimp and was terrified of the cath - I was on tranqs for 2 days prior to having it; and they put me out completely for the prodecure. That's just the way I recommend it if you are really scared about it. It was a piece of cake - go to sleep, wake up AFTER the lie still for XX hours thing.

This is an option if you're like I was.

 

[ccrawford]

To understand the pros and cons of arm vs groin entry, you really need to look at a diagram of the veins and arteries and their various approaches to the heart. Generally speaking, the groin offers a better approach to most analyses of the heart, and being bigger, gives a little more room to work. You should ask if your cath lab uses the Perclose method of closing the artery. This particular technique cuts the time way down and you don't have to spend a whole day lying on your back. I had one done in the afternoon, and went to a Christmas symphony about four hours later. Chris

 

[Raverlaw]

Oh, Anna!

You and your Aussie idioms. "Sook" ?? I'm guessing that's similar to a wimp?

Good luck with your flu shot. I had the chance to get one about two weeks before my surgery but passed it up because I didn't know if I should and couldn't reach my surgeon on such short notice. Turns out I should have taken advantage of it.

 

[NC-Cutie]

Both times that I had a cath they were done through the groin. I did have to lie flat for 6 hours after the first one, that was in 1999. The one I did this year prior to surgery I only had to lie flat for 2 hours and by the time I was fully awake, my 2 hours were up. I had mild sedation (Benadryl and Fentanyl) and I don't remember anything about being in the cath lab. I remember being rolled in the direction of the lab, and the next thing I remember is being back in the holding room. It was time to go.

I personally prefer the groin as long as they can sedate me. I have a fear of Caths because my sister's heart stopped during one and she had to be coded and then rushed to surgery for a triple bypass.

 

[lance]

Heart cath Question

Heart cath Question

It is my understanding about cardiac caths that they went through the artery in my arm to diagnose the arteries (left catheterization) and through the vein in my right arm to access the right side of my heart (right catheterization).

til then I thought an angiogram was an angiogram and was one procedure, not two.

Because the cardio tore the vein in my right arm it is now tied shut and useless for blood tests. Apparently other veins take over the circulation.

I would never agree to catheterization through the arm again and live in fear that I will need a second one. Had I known of this outcome I wouldn't have agreed to it in the first place. At the time it was done I didn't know about the groin area. Certainly the arteries and veins are much larger there.

The problems I experienced should never have occurred and I personally found the angiogram and right sided catheterization can best be described as an ordeal. But the vein was torn, and bled leaving a large pool of blood on the floor and I was forced to leave the recovery area while feeling not well enough to do so. Hospital personnel made it very clear it was time to go and unfortunately leakage occurred and on the way home I had to attend a second hospital. I was very weak and feint probably due to blood loss.

To make matters worse the cardio left and I never saw nor heard from him again. For the next year I thought the scarring would heal and I would recover use of the vein. Well I never have and when I phoned the cardio for an explanation of why I had a scar there I was advised to see a plastic surgeon. Fuming, I called back to be told very casually that the vein was sewn shut. I have since learned that Hamilton is one of the last places to use the elbow as an entry point. This cardio was elderly and when he was trained that is how he was trained to do it. It is my understanding he no longer performs these test. About time I should say.

This was my first experience with Hamilton General Hospital where the open heart surgery was performed. Talk about trial by fire!

What I experienced should never have occurred and other patients with different cardios and at different institutions will be fine. I just experienced bad luck, that's all.

 

[Marge]

Georgia, how on earth did you get them to "put you out completely" for the cath? I was told very firmly by the invasive cardiologist that she could NOT have me completely unconscious during the procedure because they need you to be sufficiently aware to be able to respond during the procedure. For instance, they may need to ask you to breathe deeply, or hold your breath, or follow other instructions.

I was very nervous & they gave me plenty of sedation, & the procedure itself was easy -- but I was never completely knocked out. Unfortunately the sedation wore off in the first couple hours. I should have asked for an additional dose to get me through the rest of the lying on my back so called "recovery" period.

 

[medtronic of borg]

caths

caths

I've had 7 caths, one of which they did all four approaches (1969). Ihave been on my back anywere from 8 hours to as short as my last one , coming in at 4hrs with the plug/seal thing. Sorry can't for the life of me remember the name of the plug/seal thing. As for the the cath experience, well I have had really bad to so smooth I don't hardly remember it. But when they start pulling forms out for me to sign...I pull one out for thewm to sign. It states there is to be NO cut downs!!!!!!! If they can't get in they can't get in!

Med

 

[Kathy]

I'll be seeing a new cardiologist next Thursday (..for a much anticipated second opinion about what's been going on..)

That's great news Anna!

I had a cath at Toledo Hospital in 1967, when I was diagnosed with dextrocardia. They strapped my head and arms to the table and did some kind of a preliminary cut, before the cutdown with no local anesthesia. I can remember the pain to this day. I wonder what kind of sadist held that scalpel. I was wide awake for the 4 hour procedure. To the best of my recollection everyone ignored me through most of it. The doctors went out to get coffee half way through! I recall asking the nurse if she could please unstrap my head at that time. I had stitches in the groin. I can still remember the discomfort associated with walking around with those, too. I remember that they told my mom afterwards that I was the first teenager that they didn't have to medicate. If I had known they would have medicated me I would have made a major fuss.

The cath that I had before this surgery was a breeze. The medication was very relaxing. The only difficult part was lying still afterwards. They put a big pressure bandage on my groin which was uncomfortable. Unfortunately, I had worn jeans and couldn't get them over the bandage. We had planned to go out to dinner, but had to settle for takeout since I had no other clothes with me in Cleveland.