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sarahsunshine

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Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Messages
387
Location
Canada
After the past 2 frustrating (infuriating?) months of trying to get Skyler's INR stable, we finally managed to get it above 2.5 for the second time since the end of January! The thing is that his dose is extremely high, and that worries me. As a recap, Syler has 2 On-X valves and a graft of his ascending Aorta. Skyler's been on warfarin since he was 4 months old, and dad has been self-testing since taht time. We've been self regulating since 2006. Prior to surgery (Nov 2011) he was on 8/8.5 mg alternating. That kept his INR at 2.8 +/- 0.3 .

Since his surgery Skyler (12yo) is much more active and has TONS more blood flow (increase from 17mm St.Jude to 25mm On-X in Mitral location), he's gained weight (7 pounds), but he hasn't grown much in height. Also, we have had a bunch of trouble with his mother not following recommended doses that his dad tells her to, Skyler missing about 1 dose/week when under her care, and Biomom accidentally gave Skyler 4mg too little for 2 weeks (gave him 2mg instead of 4mg pills). All this has made regulation of dose very difficult over the past 2 months since Skyler is with us one week, and with his mom for 1 week. We finally asked the INR clinic to intervene and tell Biomom what dose to give in the hope that she will likely listen to them if she doesn't listen to Biodad. After forgetting a dose early last week, he was put on 9mg for the rest of the week and his INR went all the way up to 1.8 from 1.7!

Since Sunday night, however, Skyler is with us for the week, and for the past 3 days we gave Skyler 11 mg/day. After testing again last night, he was at 2.7! Although it is probably still increasing if he stays on that dose, the fact that he's finally above 2.5 (and even 2.0) is cause for celebration! We have since decided to decrease to 10mg for the rest of the week to see if 10mg will keep his INR stable, increase, or decrease by Sunday. If it decreases, we'll increase to 10.5, if it increases again, we will decrease to 9.5. I doubt it will increase, and think that 10mg is likely about the right dose.


So here is my question, how many people are on 10mg or higher? This seems like an awful lot to me (70mg/week on a less than 75lb kid) and I am concerned about affects to bone development.
 
Sarah,

I don't think having a "high" dose, like >10mg/day, is a problem. There are many people on this forum who take larger doses but don't have a problem with stability. You take what you need to get in range and dose your lifestyle. With Skyler, it seems that stability is the issue, not dose. With all these missed doses, wrong doses and large adjustments (>10% weekly), it's no wonder his INR has been unstable.

I hope you get the help you need and figure it all out!
 
"Is Bio-Mom on board yet?" When Biomom has to report INR levels to the doctor herself, she's a little more cooperative. So until we get everything established, that's how it's working... for now... So much for "self regulation" and all the benefits.

As for dose level, I'm more concerned about the effects of decreased calcium uptake and bone growth as side effects of Coumadin. Most people taking coumadin don't have growing bones any longer so the effects are unknown on growing kids. There is a bunch of literature that suggests a link of warfarin with osteoporosis, which would suggest a lack of calcium available for bone development in kids on warfarin.

That's why I'm concerned about high doses of warfarin with Skyler.

Thanks for letting me know about people with high doses of warfarin. It makes me feel a little better.
 
Well, after 4 days on 10mg, His INR has only dipped to 2.4!!! So it looks like 10mg is about right!

We all breathed a sigh of relief. Now, at leastw e know that under the exercise, dose, and diet that Skyler's on at our house, 10mg is the right dose. It used to work for his mom's house too, but considering the problems recently, I wouldn't count on it. It depends how many doses he misses! But at least we're close and it's above 2.0! WOOHOO!
 
Well, after 4 days on 10mg, His INR has only dipped to 2.4!!! So it looks like 10mg is about right!

We all breathed a sigh of relief. Now, at leastw e know that under the exercise, dose, and diet that Skyler's on at our house, 10mg is the right dose. It used to work for his mom's house too, but considering the problems recently, I wouldn't count on it. It depends how many doses he misses! But at least we're close and it's above 2.0! WOOHOO!
That is excellent :)
Many, many years ago when my daughter was very young she would go to spend the weekends on her grandparents farm and I was worried about her
possibly missing her asthma meds. So, I put the single doses in individual bottles with the required times and dates on them, and I would still call and ask
her if Grammama had given her the meds and to make sure that all the bottles came back to me on Sunday night for verification, cleaning, and reloading.
We do what we have to do to keep our children as safe and healthy as possible.
 
Bina - I agree about doing what we have to do to keep our children healthy. At this point, however, I believe that increasing Skyler's responsibility for his medication if the best (maybe only) way to go. This includes getting him to take his own INR (he'll be 13 in 4 weeks). If his INr gets below 2.0, then he gets a heparin shot (no not necessary if it's a small blip, but the fact that he absolutely despises needles will give him incentive to remember to take his meds. The whole "cause effect" thing where he has control I think is what we have to work on here... and take Mom out of the equation.
 
Bina - I agree about doing what we have to do to keep our children healthy. At this point, however, I believe that increasing Skyler's responsibility for his medication if the best (maybe only) way to go. This includes getting him to take his own INR (he'll be 13 in 4 weeks). If his INr gets below 2.0, then he gets a heparin shot (no not necessary if it's a small blip, but the fact that he absolutely despises needles will give him incentive to remember to take his meds. The whole "cause effect" thing where he has control I think is what we have to work on here... and take Mom out of the equation.
Yes, your Skyler is at an age where he can remember to take his meds and check a pill box. My daughter was only 3 years old when I sent
her with labelled bottles and it wasn't long before she became very reliable with her asthma inhalers.
 

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