Biological valve chopping my red bld cells

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DianeMaria

Hi,

My hematologist told my nurse practitioner (internal med. dr.) yesterday, that I have this condition that my mosaic (pig valve) that i got replaced for my aortic valve at Washington Hospital Center 3 years ago is chopping up my red blood cells. I have recently become very anemic and no one can explain why. I am taking iron infusions as the pills give me intestinal spasms. Has anyone ever heard of this? Also, does anyone know how long a pig valve can last in a young person? I am 49?

Thanks,

Diane Maria
Leesburg, VA:(
 
Welcome, I'm glad you found us. I have a mechanical valve, so I'm not well-versed in biological (tissue) valves. I do know that the older mechanical valves are known for "chopping up" red blood cells. I just finished a course of iron because I was anemic. We do have some very knowledgable members here in regards to tissue valves, so hopefully they can let you know if this is an issue with tissue valves.

Do you have your hemoglobin #. I'm just curious as to how much below normal it is.
 
I just had ten weekly infusions of iron, waited one month, then my hemoglobin tested at 11.7. 11.0 - 16.5 is normal.

Thanks for your quick reply!

Diane Maria
 
How low was it before you started receiving the shots?
Most of my adult life, my levels have been below 11.
They have dropped as low as 7.0 after suffering some signficant blood losses.
I am also unable to take iron supplements, but they won't give me the shots because they say they really aren't as effective when given IM.
Is it possible for you to call the PCP and ask the name of the condition that they believe you have?
I have never heard of tissue valves chopping red blood cells, nor did I think the newer mechanical valves did it either.
I would be interested in knowing what name they are giving to your condition.
Thanks,
Mary
 
I don't have much information about this man but, I do know a guy that worked for the county I work for who had his mechanical valve chopping up his red blood cells. I do know they had to put another mechanical valve in because of it. He was sick for quite a while before they found out what his problem was. I could try to call his wife and get more info. But, this was a mechanical valve.
 
I beleive the term you may be looking for is licing of the cells. In any case...I understand how physcially draining it can be. Has been an issue for myself..even prior to my MVR. I was given those little bags of iron for a few months proceeding my MVR. Take a daily RX iron supplement that keeps me in the safe range.
 
iron levels

iron levels

Well, i can't remember what my hemoglobin was before the ten infusions, but I remember that my serum iron was a 4 which was what send everone into a tizzy (my docs, I mean). Now, it's an 8, which is still below normal.

Now I don't qualify for infusions because my hemoglobin is above 11. I have to wait until it falls below 11 to get anothe infusion, and my doctors cannot tell why I am anemic. I have had endoscopy, colonoscopy, pelvic ultrasound and every blood test known to man woman and child and they have ound nothing.

DMB

Also, anybody know any younger people with biological valves? I read on webmd that they last a shorter time (shorter than 10 -15 yrs.) in younger people. So, that doesn't give me much time.

Very glad to have found you. I'll be offline until tomorrow morning.

Diane Maria
 
tissue valve

tissue valve

My cardiologist has a few patients that have pig valves (like mine) and he said that by keeping them on statin drugs their pig valves are lasting more than 20 years. Cedars is starting a test program doing valves like angioplasty with a catheter. This is a thing ogf the future and may not pan out, but the possibilities are there that if you were to change your vavle and go with a biologic it is possible the nextone wouldn't require OHS. notice I said possible.

Randy
 
Diana Maria, here is what I found for normal hemoglobin range.

Male: 13 - 18 gm/dL
Female: 12 - 16 gm/dL

Most reference 12 as low normal for women, so don't be surprised if you are still feeling a bit sluggish.

Mine was at 11 a month ago when my cardio put me on Feosol suppliments. Now it's almost 13 and I feel much better. At 11 I was really draggin' my wagon, so I can't imagine how you felt. Did your dr. put you on an iron suppliment. The Feosol has a little more iron than most.

Mary, you're correct. The newer mech valves aren't infamous for "licing" (my cardio's word too). I tended to be anemic prior to my VR. So we're uncertain whether my occasional bouts of anemia are due to my 15 year old (almost) St. Jude.
 
Joe has had hemolytic anemia from his double mechanical valves chopping up his blood (hemolysis), in particular the 28 year old one.

He is under the care of a hematologist, and he takes iron twice a day, folic acid prescription strength, and I inject him with procrit three times a week.

And he has had numerous transfusions.

There is some debate amongst his hematologists as to whether he actually has hemolysis, but it does make sense.

However, he also has intestinal bleeding from time to time, and that contributes to his anemia.

But I believe the term you are thinking of is either hemolysis or hemolytic anemia.
 
But I believe the term you are thinking of is either hemolysis or hemolytic anemia.


actually i think they have the right word but wrong spelling, "lysing' is breaking up the red cells, lyn
 
Karlynn said:
Diana Maria, here is what I found for normal hemoglobin range.

Male: 13 - 18 gm/dL
Female: 12 - 16 gm/dL

Most reference 12 as low normal for women, so don't be surprised if you are still feeling a bit sluggish.

Mine was at 11 a month ago when my cardio put me on Feosol suppliments. Now it's almost 13 and I feel much better. At 11 I was really draggin' my wagon, so I can't imagine how you felt. Did your dr. put you on an iron suppliment. The Feosol has a little more iron than most.

Mary, you're correct. The newer mech valves aren't infamous for "licing" (my cardio's word too). I tended to be anemic prior to my VR. So we're uncertain whether my occasional bouts of anemia are due to my 15 year old (almost) St. Jude.

Karlynn,
My hemoglobin has never reached 12 in my entire life! I remember as a little girl receiving iron shots (my dad was a doctor and I wouldn't eat meat!)

I am familar with the older mechanical valves destroying red blood cells, but I thought that was a thing of the past. Actually, I still think it's a thing of the past.;) Since Diana says her NP gave her this news, I'm really considering whether the NP knows what she's talking about.:confused: :confused:
If she's had trouble most of her life, I wouldn't expect any new valve to be a cause of the anemia.
Of course, I may be wrong . . . .but I had a cardiac NP who had no idea of what the Ross procedure was . . . need I say more? :eek: :eek:
 
Mary - here's a new Rx for your anemia -

Consume one cow daily - drink one bottle of red wine daily.

That should fix you right up!:D
 
This problem is usually called hemolytic anemia, but it's sometimes also termed as mechanical hemolytic anemia, hemolysis, or microangiopathic anemia. Mechanical in the name refers to the mechanical action that causes the red blood cells to be damaged, and is not a description of the valve type.

The Mosaic is a natural tissue valve. Tissue valves don't usually damage a significant number of red blood cells, but there are cases where it happens. There are even cases of repaired, original mitral valves causing this problem. So even your own, native flesh is not entirely safe post surgery. (For the curious: www.nv-med.com/atcs/pdf/2005_11_3/198.pdf)

Here is a typical appraisal of post-VR anemia risk:
Hemolytic anemia following insertion of Ionescu-Shiley mitral valve bioprosthesis S B Reddy, J L Pater, J Pym, and P W Armstrong http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1440344
"Hemolytic anemia is a relatively common complication after the replacement of cardiac valves with mechanical prostheses; the prevalence rate varies from 38% to 85%, depending on the prosthesis implanted. However, cardiac valves fabricated from biologic material are associated with a reduced incidence of hemolytic anemia..."
When it does happen in biological valves, frequently there are other factors involved that make the red blood cells involved more fragile. However, it isn't much comfort if they're your red blood cells.

As things progress, the numbers for mechanical valves will go down, as the current-generation carbon valves (e.g. On-X, Sorin, ATS) have much softer, erythrocyte-sparing closures than the last generation of mechanicals.

As far as the statin claim...

There is no evidence that statin drugs enhance the length of service for tissue valves or prevent or slow valve calcification. Certainly there is no evidence or studies that it is related to the twenty-year successes of the bovine pericardial valves, not even casual evidence. Nor are there any studies relating the two that are even five years old, much less twenty. Wishful thinking. Statin manufacturers figure if their loyal opinion leaders say it often enough, it will be accepted as truth even if no studies ever support it. Any prescription sold is a good prescription.

We just went through this debate recently in this forum, where no one could come up with a reasonable study that could show that statins did any such thing, although there are several studies that show that they do not, including a major study completed earlier this year. Do a search on this site for that debate: your cardio's been scammed. Until then, link to this earlier post: http://www.valvereplacement.com/forums/showthread.php?p=176366&highlight=statins#post176366

Diane Maria, at your age, the valve could last up to fifteen years, but will probably remain usable for about ten years, less if you've been pregnant or if it was from before current anticalcification treatments were being used in manufacturing the valve.

Best wishes,
 
Diane,
According to your profile, you had your aortic valve replaced but you are also suffering from mitral valve stenosis. Did they say specifically that the blood cells were being destroyed by the new aortic valve or the stenotic mitral?

The case Tobagotwo cited dealt with a mitral valve repair which is why I am curious.
 
Karlynn

Karlynn

Would eating chicken livers help Mary?:D ..No way, that Gal's going to touch Cow.:D ..She's as bad as my age 14 year old Grandson. Wanted to eat lunch at Longhorn's Steak House today..what did he order. Chicken fingers.:eek: :confused: :mad: :p ...Chicken fingers at Wendy's..chicken fingers at Burger King.......Bonnie
 
The least bit of iron makes me throw up. Even cream of wheat, that's enriched with iron, can make me sick if I'm not careful. I've started eating cereals that contain it; frosted mini-wheats has 90% of the daily requirement for iron, so I try to get a bowl of that in every day.
Before anyone suggests spinach, I love it, but I will throw up if I eat much of it.:eek:
 
My medical dictionary has lysis, hemolysis and hemolytic anemia all under the same root, so I guess it basically all means the same thing, just different forms of the root word.
 
It's okay that spinach doesn't work for you, Mary. Ironically :)rolleyes: ), the iron in Popeye's spinach is mostly organically bound, and passes through the body without replenishing stores of this vital mineral.

I do love spinach, though, and it has lots of other good stuff in it.

Best wishes,
 

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