An unexpected development

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TakeStock

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 13, 2009
Messages
181
Location
Cincinnati, OH
Well, I was already to post something about my new surgeon, who I saw yesterday. As I mentioned in prior posts I got a referral from my cardio for a second opinion, mainly to verify a MV repair won?t work. He referred me to Dr. Hiratzka, a very experienced and well-regarded surgeon in the Cincinnati area. In fact, when I got my angio on Friday, without prompting my nurse mentioned his name as someone I ought to talk to. So I met yesterday with him and liked what I heard.

I found Dr. Hiratzka to be very friendly and honest about my situation. He feels there?s a 2/3rd chance he can repair the mitral valve, and if not he?ll replace it with an On-X. He won?t repair if there?s the slightest chance it won?t stick, and his record is very good: in 20 years he?s had only one (!) repair fail. He also said the risk of re-infection for repair vs. replace was not any higher unless the bacteria were still in the tissue when the surgery occurred. Perhaps my first surgeon, who saw me while I was finishing my endo treatment, assumed he?d be operating on a still-infected valve.

So I?m planning to have Dr. Hiratzka do my MV repair (hopefully not a replacement) surgery sometime in mid-March. I left a message for his scheduler to call me back to set the date.

Now, here?s where things take an unexpected turn. I had an echo done on Feb 11 to verify that after the antibiotic treatment to remove the endo and vegetation, my valve was still severely leaking. The echo report indicated it was no better, even though I felt much better and my BP and HR were much lower since my TEE taken when I first started treatment. But then I got the left/right cath done on Friday and the results differed with the echo, showing my pulmonary pressure to be normal. I didn?t think much of it other than it meant I had some extra time (a few weeks?). When I met Dr. Hiratzka I brought my Feb 11 results since they were from my cardio/first-surgeon?s office; he had the angio and TEE results because they were from the hospital. He noted to me how the Feb 11 results seemed a little odd to him but I didn?t explore what he meant by that.

So, while waiting for Dr. Hiratzka?s scheduler to call, I instead got a call from my first surgeon?s nurse. She says the surgeon would now like me to get a TEE because the angio results may be indicating my valve is getting better, and I may not need surgery! Wait? what? Now my faith in this guy is a little low after getting a second opinion, and I?m not big on getting a TEE unless absolutely necessary, so I asked for him to call me and explain what exactly the angio was showing. If I?m still severely regurging, I?m going to need this surgery sooner than later, so I might as well go ahead rather than wait and see. Besides, I have every thing planned and nearly set ? unless we can push this out several years and hope medical advances make it easier, I want to do this now.

So I?m awaiting a callback from my first surgeon. I?ll probably go ahead and schedule the TEE and surgery now (with the second surgeon) just to get it reserved, but I?ll speak to my cardio and Dr. Hiratzka for their opinion before I even bother with the TEE. Has anyone else ever had an angio change the decision of whether or not to have surgery?
 
I just talked to my first surgeon and the way he describes it is, the doctor who did the angiogram called him and stated that she didn?t see much leakage from her results. I?m not sure exactly what you can see in the angio, I guess you can tell the leakage from the blood flow whereas the echo shows more of the valve behavior and not the blood flow. Anyway, I?ll go ahead with the TEE I guess and see what they find. It would be useful to also know if there still is vegetation inside there, and it will help Dr. Hiratzka determine with more certainty if a repair is do-able. I went ahead and tentatively scheduled the Mitral Valve repair surgery for March 18. I haven?t set the TEE date but of course it will be before the 18th.
 
Bill,
I hate to say it, but I think you're at the point where the TEE will be necessary to get a definitive answer.
I hope it shows that you won't need surgery, but just in case, I'll put your tentative date on the calendar and will change it later if need be.
 
Thanks, Mary. It?s been an emotional rollercoaster for me: suddenly finding out I needed surgery in December when I never had a heart problem, then learning I still had endocarditis a few weeks later, then discovering during my treatment I might be able to avoid surgery if the vegetation was affecting the valve leakage, then finding out from my echo that I still needed surgery even though the vegetation was gone, then finding out from my angio that I might be able to avoid surgery after all?.. Arrggh.

I have the TEE scheduled for Tues morning. Hopefully the TEE doctor will give me the whole story that day and I won?t have to wait for my cardio or surgeon #1 or surgeon #2 to confuse me further with differing opinions.
 
I just talked to my first surgeon and the way he describes it is, the doctor who did the angiogram called him and stated that she didn?t see much leakage from her results. I?m not sure exactly what you can see in the angio, I guess you can tell the leakage from the blood flow whereas the echo shows more of the valve behavior and not the blood flow. Anyway, I?ll go ahead with the TEE I guess and see what they find. It would be useful to also know if there still is vegetation inside there, and it will help Dr. Hiratzka determine with more certainty if a repair is do-able. I went ahead and tentatively scheduled the Mitral Valve repair surgery for March 18. I haven?t set the TEE date but of course it will be before the 18th.

Did they do a right and left cath?
 
It was a right/left cath, Lyn. The right cath showed normal pulmonary pressure even though the Feb 11 echo had me with mild pulmonary hypertension with a pap of 43. The echo did have me with a normal ejection fraction of 55-60% (just a range, not a single number), which the angio also showed. The key is the echo had me with 4+ regurge on the MV, which we need confirmation from the TEE. Thanks for the interest.
 
Yep, the TEE confirmed my +4......also showed the "direction" of the leak, etc.
It seemed that it revealed so much more than the cath. All the cath cardio kept saying during the cath is "I can't believe you are even here....how did anyone find this?" Everything is so clear except the leak. Let us know the results of the TEE.
 
Just don't get yourself confused with too many doctors. If you really feel confident about surgeon #2, then stay with him and do as he says. I don't know why you even have #1 still in the picture.
 
Nancy, the funny thing is, I was just about to call the nurse for surgeon #1 to tell her I was going with surgeon #2, just as soon as surgeon #2?s scheduler returned my call. That?s when the surgeon #1 nurse called me to say he wanted a TEE. Surgeon #1 had ordered the angio and the angio doctor called him directly to question the need for surgery ? I don?t think that info was in the report and hence surgeon #2 may not have been privy to all information. I should also note that surgeon #1 and my cardio work out of the same practice group, surgeon #2 does not, which of course is why the cardio recommended surgeon #1 over #2 even though #2 was clearly better IMO (lesson learned: make sure your cardio gives you at least one referral to someone outside his group). I guess I have to figure out a way to dump surgeon #1 once the TEE is done. :D

Regarding the different results between the echo and angio, here?s a question I?m wondering about: does gravity affect mitral valve regurgitation? In other words, might lying on your left side for an echo/TEE cause the damaged leaflets to close differently versus lying flat on your back for an angio? Any doctors out there know the answer?
 
Interesting question. I'm just praying someone tells me I don't need surgery! LOL!
Good advice about the confusing part. I have seen two cardio's and one surgeon and one surgeon reviewed my records without seeing me in person. All recommended the same!
 
Nancy, the funny thing is, I was just about to call the nurse for surgeon #1 to tell her I was going with surgeon #2, just as soon as surgeon #2?s scheduler returned my call. That?s when the surgeon #1 nurse called me to say he wanted a TEE. Surgeon #1 had ordered the angio and the angio doctor called him directly to question the need for surgery ? I don?t think that info was in the report and hence surgeon #2 may not have been privy to all information. I should also note that surgeon #1 and my cardio work out of the same practice group, surgeon #2 does not, which of course is why the cardio recommended surgeon #1 over #2 even though #2 was clearly better IMO (lesson learned: make sure your cardio gives you at least one referral to someone outside his group). I guess I have to figure out a way to dump surgeon #1 once the TEE is done. :D

Regarding the different results between the echo and angio, here?s a question I?m wondering about: does gravity affect mitral valve regurgitation? In other words, might lying on your left side for an echo/TEE cause the damaged leaflets to close differently versus lying flat on your back for an angio? Any doctors out there know the answer?

As for how to dump surgeon #1, I would tell him that surgeon #2 gives you a fairly good chance of getting a repair and that it is very important for you to at least have that chance.

As for your question about gravity and if it affects mitral regurgitation, I'm not sure in the way that you want to know about. However, I know from experience that it helps the blood go the right way when you are standing. I know this because when I had A-fib and the left atrium could not give that extra push, I ended up coughing all night since the blood backed up into my lungs. When I was not lying down, it was O.K.
 
I just tell the other surgeons I decided on have so and so do the surgery, but thank you very much for your time and answering my questions.. (and I was very glad I was nice and left it at that because one time I had to go back 2 months later and say UMMM we changed our minds and want you to do the surgery. )
 
Just don't get yourself confused with too many doctors. If you really feel confident about surgeon #2, then stay with him and do as he says. I don't know why you even have #1 still in the picture.

I agree with Nancy. I wouldn't even let surgeon #1 order the TEE. If you are definitely going with #2, I would let his people set that up if he wants one. Dr.'s are used to people getting different opinions and going with different surgeons. Just be polite, tell them thanks and then go on your way...but do it now.

Kim
 

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