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Bonzo is wondering if Superbob has a sporting past? Why? Knee problems are often rooted in either a professional or serious amateur sporting youth.


Yep. Superbob played football way back in schoolboy days. No big star or anything, just a big ol' slogging lineman. Football is hell on knees, and I did injure the left knee. It's the one with zero cartilage today. However, it's the right knee that the doc proposes to "scope out" the cartilage that remains. However, I find now that I can bend and straighten it, and it's not locking up, not causing me much pain, and it seems to be getting gradually better now that the extra stress of taking care of my son's puppydog is gone, so I think I will try to go the "natural" route -- weight loss and exercise -- a while longer.

Thanks immensely to the pair 'o docs -- your observations are valuable and appreciated.

And Betty (bvdr) has her arthroscopic surgery coming up the 16th, I believe. Want her to know that I do not intend to put doubt in her mind. Her knee function may well be worse than mine and the surgery may well help, as I have heard it has helped many people.

Finally, since this is a heart forum, let me stress as strongly as I can -- I would NEVER forgo surgery to replace or repair a messed-up heart valve. That is a totally different kettle of fish --- no therapy or ice packs or heating pads or shots or other remedies can ameliorate that. That's a matter of saving your life, not merely deciding the best way to continue to be mobile. So please don't take from this that skipping valve surgery is an option!
 
Me! You left out me! ;):D <SNIP>

I'm just hanging on with the syn-visc shots until my knee will no longer respond to those (favorably) and will inevitably need a knee-replacement. I'm trying to lose enough weight so that the knee holds up as long as possible. So far so good.

:) Marguerite

SO, Marguerite, just uh... How "UNcomfortable" are those shots?

Don't spare any details :) !
 
To confirm Laura's comment, I did go into detail about my arthroscopic surgery in one of your first posts right after you injured your knee (I haven't looked, but I think it was steps into your basement). I said I suspected a bucket-handle torn mensicus like I got from stepping on an angled flat rock with my full weight when I assumed it was actually flat--it was as dark as a cave in Waynes Cave where I did it--well sort of. We all had our headlamps on, but the passage was large and white LEDs hadn't been invented, so the lighting was very yellow and not at all adequate for near-sighted me to notice the rock. Step--crunch--Oww! Then 1200 foot crawlway back after 8 further hours in the back passage--ran out of water, too! I don't do well dehydrated with an injured knee. My group leader thought I'd cracked, and never wanted to go into a cave again with me--well at least for the final two months at Indiana University before my doctoral examination and departure for the West Coast. At least I managed to exit the cave, including the final 16 foot vertical climb at the end, under my own power.

It was my left knee. It swelled up for several weeks, and after the swelling went down my knee would jamb and feel 'wrong' as if something was in the way when it otherwise didn't hurt. In November 1993, between the end of my Post-Doc at WSU, and start of teaching at CSI, Idaho, I had arthroscopic surgery by Dr. Goldstein, and the results were so good that 15 years later I have no sign of any trouble using my left knee. My right one is still good, too (Thank You God!), so I often end up walking so briskly at times I even tire the kids out, and have to turn around and go back for Laura or at least take a break (which I appreciate--gives me a chance to stop and smell the roses--as it were.)

So, get the surgery done, Bob, as the benefits far outweigh the risks and discomfort of a prosthetic knee. I can kneel with both feet against my bottom, can get on and off the floor without my arms (impressed my physical therapist that I could do that 4 days post OHS), and do deep knee bends. If you wait too long, arthritis my set in and make the need for the artificial knee much more urgent, plus you'll have to endure that feeling of something getting stuck sometimes in your knee joint for the duration between now and when the whole knee starts to go. My injury was in April 1992 and the surgery was in November 1993, so my knee had time to settle down from the swelling and trauma of its initial injury to a non-inflamed knee prone to getting 'jammed' and me having to hit the bulge to get the cartilage back into place so I could straighten my leg. Usually it happened when I would bend my knee extremely like described above. After surgery, all freedom of movement returned and still remains to this day. Laura, in my opinion, waited far too long for her first surgery. The first injury took place before I even knew her (perhaps even the same year I injured my knee) and was aggravated by a bad fall on black ice by the Doctor's Lounge (sort of like my rock with its invisible slant). Even then she waited several years before proceeding with the surgery described.

In my opinion, get the cartilage snipped and smoothed before the irritation of the torn bits cause other deleterious changes in the knee. Mine was caught in time; Laura's wasn't. One robin doesn't mean Spring, and one study doesn't mean you should cancel your appointment.

Final point is this, if you do get a total knee replacement, you will never fully crouch again or feel the heel of that leg touch your bottom, as you're forbidden to bend it beyond a 90° angle (a few modern ones permit slightly more acute bending, but nothing like a natural knee). My mother had a hurt knee from being hit by a car in the early 1970s and now has an artificial knee despite having virtually no arthritis elsewhere at age 75. My father, 75, injured by a tree limb falling on his left knee did have open knee surgery in the 1970s (my mother didn't). Despite him having arthritis in most of his joints including his right knee, his left knee, which had about half of its mensicus cartilage removed in 1976, is now his most functional knee--all parts original.

Like me, my father got the torn cartilage out in time, and 30 years later still reaps the benefits. Pray about it, too. There are studies (maybe it applies to more severely injured knees with ACL and other ligament damage, too.), and there is my family's experience. It's up to you. I'll pray that God's wisdom guides you as well.

Been there, felt that,

Chris


Wow, Chris -- that incident in the cave must have been harrowing! I much prefer having torn my meniscus going down in the "cave" of my basement. :D

Am wondering if helped a lot with your good outcome that you were much younger than I am now, and if at my age it just makes sense to plod on til it is time for a total replacement anyway?

I must do some serious praying about this. I am really going back and forth on it this sleepless morning.
 
Okay, I have re-read all these wonderful posts, including Marguerite's from a few weeks back, and now I am going to try to get a few hours sleep and then pray -- I need to decide today one way or the other. All the pre-op stuff begins with an echo and cardio visit tomorrow. Thanks again to all you wonderful friends!
 
Okay, Superbob has had his superwhine. Some superhero, huh? :p

First up, Betty's knee surgery is coming up this Tuesday, the 16. All best wishes to you on that, Betty. I am sure you will do well. We'll be sending our best thoughts, vibes, and prayers.

Now, about Superbob's superwhine and pitiful attempt to get out of this. By coincidence, his MRI report finally arrived in the mail today. He has a tear of BOTH the medial and lateral menisci (wondered what the plural of meniscus was -- let's hear it for Latin!) and he has a big ol' Baker's cyst, which means lots of fluid.

So Superbob now understands better that he needs this surgery. At the barber shop this morning, several more people sang the praises of Superbob's orthopedic surgeon. Seems he has operated successfully on more knees than a top NFL surgeon. :p

You haven't heard Betty whining about her upcoming surgery, have you? Just Superbob. Sorta says something about which is really the weaker gender. :D You would think having had OHS, Superbob would be game for this -- but he is a Man of JELL-O, not steel. :p
 
Okay, Superbob has had his superwhine. Some superhero, huh? :p

First up, Betty's knee surgery is coming up this Tuesday, the 16. All best wishes to you on that, Betty. I am sure you will do well. We'll be sending our best thoughts, vibes, and prayers.

Now, about Superbob's superwhine and pitiful attempt to get out of this. By coincidence, his MRI report finally arrived in the mail today. He has a tear of BOTH the medial and lateral menisci (wondered what the plural of meniscus was -- let's hear it for Latin!) and he has a big ol' Baker's cyst, which means lots of fluid.

So Superbob now understands better that he needs this surgery. At the barber shop this morning, several more people sang the praises of Superbob's orthopedic surgeon. Seems he has operated successfully on more knees than a top NFL surgeon. :p

You haven't heard Betty whining about her upcoming surgery, have you? Just Superbob. Sorta says something about which is really the weaker gender. :D You would think having had OHS, Superbob would be game for this -- but he is a Man of JELL-O, not steel. :p

Thoughts and prayers and best wishes still right there with you Superbob. The same goes for Betty.

Some of us just need the freedom to whine to work our way through certain processes, so whine on. Regardless, you're still the resident superhero.
 
Okay, Superbob has had his superwhine. Some superhero, huh? :p

First up, Betty's knee surgery is coming up this Tuesday, the 16. All best wishes to you on that, Betty. I am sure you will do well. We'll be sending our best thoughts, vibes, and prayers.

Now, about Superbob's superwhine and pitiful attempt to get out of this. By coincidence, his MRI report finally arrived in the mail today. He has a tear of BOTH the medial and lateral menisci (wondered what the plural of meniscus was -- let's hear it for Latin!) and he has a big ol' Baker's cyst, which means lots of fluid.

So Superbob now understands better that he needs this surgery. At the barber shop this morning, several more people sang the praises of Superbob's orthopedic surgeon. Seems he has operated successfully on more knees than a top NFL surgeon. :p

You haven't heard Betty whining about her upcoming surgery, have you? Just Superbob. Sorta says something about which is really the weaker gender. :D You would think having had OHS, Superbob would be game for this -- but he is a Man of JELL-O, not steel. :p

So SuperBob,

You say the image of Dr. Frankenstein coming at you with Long Needles and Sharp Instruments has your Privates looking for Cover? 8-(o

At least now you know why he wants to Cut and Sew.

Suck it up Soldier! :)))

Best Wishes,

'AL Capshaw'
 
new article out in the last day or so that too many unnecessary knee replacements are being done. Two in my family alone - they live in the area of Florida that is elderly haven. Where drs suggest all sorts of stuff that might not be needed.
 
Thanks, Ann. Yep, I posted a story about the study last night, and briefly thought about dropping the surgery. But reading further, it's really about unnecessary/unhelpful surgeries for osteoarthritis. Turns out I have two major meniscus tears and the study is not saying arthroscopic surgeries are not helpful for those.

And to Al Capshaw: YES SIR!!! :D
 
Time to tune into your surperpowers SB ... those Orthoscopic surgeries are brilliant..my Mum had her knee fixed and actually walked out of the hospital that afternoon. I am not sure what her problem was but her knee is as good as new now.

I will be waiting impatiently to hear how well your knee repair goes.
 
I'm glad to hear you're going for the surgery, Bob, as I also realized that arthroscopic surgery for stuff like advanced osteoarthritis and ruined articular cartilage (the actual covering of the end of the bones) is next to useless. Synvisc seems better stop-gap at that point (ever consider that procedure for your right knee?).

As for torn menisci (By the way latin is traditionally written without capitalization; I don't know of any other language names that aren't capitalized--but I don't speak latin, so I'm not the final authority here.) arthroscopic surgery is made for it. You have a bunch of gristle rolling around your articular cartilage making it rougher and more prone to degradation every time you pinch a folded or out of place bit of torn meniscus between your tibia and femur, and the tubes go in, and the doctor snips away the flail pieces (boy do I ever know the concept of 'flail'! ;) ) and any loose chunks, and washes them out a drain tube. Then carefully smooths the remaining cartilage so it doesn't have a steep edge to further traumatize the articular cartilage. I had 80% of one ring removed, and 20% of the other one, I don't recall which had more removed. My father had about the same amount removed with his open knee surgery. Despite the much larger scars on his part and the longer recovery, the net result was as good as mine. The net result? The interior of your knee is made smooth again and should remain so for quite some time, with nothing left to grind up and roughen up your articular cartilage. The remaining mensicus cartilage should suffice for pretty much the rest of your life as long as you don't go skydiving with a flail parachute. :D

My recovery went like this: Had Versed so didn't remember waking up, and had to be shown my removed pieces of cartilage in a specimen jar twice before I could recall seeing them. Iranian surgical nurse told me I had spoken a bit of well pronounced Farsi with him (I really do know a few phrases), and that I had not said anything embarassing to him or anyone else. First day I used crutches (I had actually saved my old crutches from 10th grade when I badly stretched ligaments in my right ankle) to get around. Used first dose of one month supply of Vicodin. Next day was able to walk without crutches a few feet. By Sunday I was able to walk up a 30 step flight of stairs without crutches to church, though I did carry them just in case. Three weeks later I had to carry furnishings of my new home in Idaho out of my truck into my house. The most painful part was just kneeling on my incissions inside the back of the truck as I crawled beneath the camper shell (cap) to get at stuff. The rest is history. I only used Vicodin for 3 days and actually had some of the pills 10 years later when Laura told me to throw them out.

Good luck and God bless on the surgery. I was 31 when I had mine, so I wasn't exactly a teenager anymore, either.

Chris
 
Wow, Chris, those are very helpful details, Chris. And thanks Ton for your good wishes....

Thinking now of Betty, whose knee surgery comes up Tuesday. Hope she'll check in with us soon.

Oh should add that I had my precautionary cardio visit today (which my orthopedist wanted done), complete with an echo, and everything was working great -- absolutely no leakage. That was great news, indeed.
 

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