October, 2015: Study finds 40% of Tissue Valve Recepients At Risk For A Stroke!

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I only read through it quickly but a couple of questions spring to mind. If the limited leaflet motion is resolved with warfarin treatment is it ok to go off it at that point or is continuing warfarin recommended ? Is this associated with certain valves or all tissue valve replacements? It also mentioned human valves, I imagine that's referring to homografts? I assume this study isn't relevant to repaired valves ?
 
copying this from the other similar thread:

TAVR valves, that is the tube ones in this study, are known to have a high risk of stroke, that would seem to be becuase they don't remove the calcification on the 'old' valve which is beneath the stent.

If the leaflets on the regular tissue replacement valve, the one done by AVR in which the old valve is removed and all calcification, are not working properly that would show up on echo. I've had several post AVR echos which check the function of my tissue valve thoroughly…I'm sure most of us have had that..
 
PS - were these "tissue valve recipients" bicuspid aortic valvers ? Many people who recieve tissue valves are elderly people with stenotic aortic valve calcification which is due to age - being elderly increases risk of stroke full stop/period. How's about 'younger' people with tissue valves, ie bicuspid aortic valvers ? Is their risk of stroke 40% Don't you think at least one of them on here would have had a stroke if it were a risk of 40% ?
 
Hi

honeybunny;n859029 said:
I'm skeptical of this sensationally titled thread posted anonymously. Reeks of ulterior motive.

I think being skeptical is a good thing, however it does not mean "dismissive" ... to be skeptical you should investigate the claims a little and form an an opinion based on that. The New England Journal of Medicine is hardly a "shock jock" station. This is a peer reviewed journal. If it was "healthy living" I'd be instantly sus.

Personally I think the numbers are high, and its misleading because I expect that the data is more representative in the first 3 months (where its certainly an issue and warfarin is normally administered) and in the latter 30% of the life of the prosthetic.

Seeing stuff you don't agree with is good: it helps you to inform yourself by determining if its wrong or not. After all, the key words used in valve selection discussions is "informed decision"

I find it interesting that people are all over science when it provides something they want but reticent to accept it when its cautionary about our "easy options"

a related blog post of mine:
http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/2011/08/why-discussion-gets-nowhere.html

:)
 
I believe what the study is saying is that 40% of TAVR recipients had an issue that may elevate their risk for stroke, but that level of risk is unknown. It is not saying that they have a 40% chance of having a stroke. Out of the two samples, only 6/187 actually had a stroke or mini stroke. That is only 3% though the sample was considered too small to be meaningful.
 
Hey Don

I'm always envious of your succinct accuracy.

AZ Don;n859032 said:
I believe what the study is saying is that 40% of TAVR recipients had an issue that may elevate their risk for stroke, but that level of risk is unknown. It is not saying that they have a 40% chance of having a stroke. Out of the two samples, only 6/187 actually had a stroke or mini stroke. That is only 3% though the sample was considered too small to be meaningful.
although I admit ... I didn't even read it ... its just not something I'm interested in (having a mechanical now and having no real reason to justify anything else to myself :)

PS: the outtake I have from reading the first is this [bold mine]:

. "The stroke risk was still very low" and doesn't track with how common the motion problem is, he said.
Makkar said patients who recently received a tissue valve can talk with their doctors and see if imaging is being offered to check for the problem - it is at his hospital.
"These devices are life-saving," Makkar said. "The worst thing that could happen is that people get the wrong idea" and are afraid to have a valve fixed.

the second article seems to be suggesting something entirely different:
In patients who were reevaluated with follow-up CT, restoration of leaflet motion was noted in all 11 patients who were receiving anticoagulation and in 1 of 10 patients who were not receiving anticoagulation (P<0.001).

so I read this as suggesting that AC therapy will prevent decay of leaflet motion (or a form of stenosis)

the original post by Guest has all the hallmarks of a "drive by" data squirt ... firing data instead of an Uzzi with no real point of aim
 
The study is actually before June 2015 taking place before the Portico was cleared to resume trials.

Basically what happened was that the Portico TAVR valve had observations of reduced leaflet movement. It was found via CT scans to be caused by basically a blood clot forming on the outside of the valve leaflet and thus reduced its mobility. Not a permanent reduction or decay. The Portico trials was stopped and subsequently a study of 55 valves with usable CT scans out of 88 originally looked at, all were TAVR types. Along with 132 valves from a few other current data studies. Most were TAVR valves, and 27 were surgically implanted. Of those 27 surgical implanted valves, two had the same limited movement due to a blood clot on the leaflet.

The trials were cleared basically with this finding stated in this release about the FDA clearance:
http://www.ptca.org/news/2015/0603_STJUDE_PORTICO.html

"The bottom line is that, although this thickening leaflet and mobility issue had only been observed in the Portico trial, it seems to be a class effect across all device models, including surgical valve replacements. The incidence is rare and is treatable with medication..."

From the NEJM article:
With 21 of the clotted valves, 11 were subsequently treated with anticoagulation and 10 did not. all 11 treated valves had the clot dissolved and the leaflet motion resumed to its normal movement. In the ten cases left without anticoagulation, 1 of the valves returned to normal.

The studies found no correlation of stroke to these clotting incidents as most were within 1 day of the TAVR implantation.
The stroke observations quoted from theNEJM article:

"The finding that patients with reduced leaflet motion in the registries had a higher incidence of strokes or TIAs than did those with normal leaflet motion is preliminary and inconclusive. Overall, only six neurologic events were observed (two strokes in the PORTICO IDE study and one stroke and three TIAs in the registries), and all strokes occurred within 1 day after the TAVR procedure and before four-dimensional CT was performed. It is more likely that these first-day strokes were related to the procedural aspects of TAVR rather than to leaflet thrombosis. The cause of strokes or TIAs after TAVR is multifactorial and includes embolization of both thrombotic and nonthrombotic material from aortic, left ventricular, or native-valve instrumentation and new or preexisting atrial fibrillation, in addition to thromboembolism from bioprosthetic leaflets..."
 
So is temporary warfarin treatment the norm after replacement with a tissue valve ? I thought I'd be on it for a few months but the surgeon said I didn't need it. Surprisingly he didn't want me on any beta blockers either.
 
cldhd,
It depends on the valve and the surgeon. Its recommended that all tissue mitral valves do use warfarin and that aortic valves don't. However, some surgeons still prefer it for the aortic valve as well.

I didn't have warfarin after my replacement with a St Jude tissue.
 
Fundy;n859053 said:
cldhd,
It depends on the valve and the surgeon. Its recommended that all tissue mitral valves do use warfarin and that aortic valves don't. However, some surgeons still prefer it for the aortic valve as well.

I didn't have warfarin after my replacement with a St Jude tissue.
Thanks for the info
 
cldlhd;n859052 said:
So is temporary warfarin treatment the norm after replacement with a tissue valve ? I thought I'd be on it for a few months but the surgeon said I didn't need it. Surprisingly he didn't want me on any beta blockers either.
I was given warfarin for about four days only post surgery. Beta blockers for about 8 or 9 weeks, can't remember now but I was very glad to get off the BB's !
 
No Warfarin for me post-surgery. Only 325 mg of ASA for 3 months and then was told to go off of it. One cardiologist suggested staying on an 81mg of ASA, but my surgeon didn't think I required it.

Pellicle, thanks for the reminder to use our critical thinking when reading information, In addition to peer-reviewed, I also look for research based on 'best practice' medicine which I am sure you do too. :)
 
mmmmmmmmmmmmm havnt heard that before 40 per cent, not saying its false but seems very iffy to me and something of that importance would be known to most cardio and surgeons
 
neil;n859067 said:
mmmmmmmmmmmmm havnt heard that before 40 per cent, not saying its false but seems very iffy to me and something of that importance would be known to most cardio and surgeons
I'm guessing it must have been a "relative" 40% rather than an "absolute" 40%: http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk...-relative-risk-making-sense-of-media-stories/ and for a more interesting way of taling about relative verus absoltue risk: http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2013/04/17/how-risky-is-a-risk/
 
the study didn't actually conclude 40% of tissue valvers were at risk of a stroke. The study was 55 patients undergoing TAVR and was conducted for St Jude to investigate the leaflet mobility problem. Out of those 55 valves, 22 (40%) were found to have the problem. Also they looked at a couple of valve registry data sources from TAVR studies that had 132 valves (27 were surgically implanted rather than TAVR) and out of those 17 (13%) had this problem. Two of those valves were not TAVR valves.

The study found 0 strokes caused by this particular blood clotting observation on the leaflets.


I believe all of those patients were high risk in that level 3/4 category. It was noted that none of those instances caused any cardiac events and were resolved to normal leaflet mobility with anticoagulation therapy.
 
Fundy;n859084 said:
the study didn't actually conclude 40% of tissue valvers were at risk of a stroke. The study was 55 patients undergoing TAVR and was conducted for St Jude to investigate the leaflet mobility problem. Out of those 55 valves, 22 (40%) were found to have the problem. Also they looked at a couple of valve registry data sources from TAVR studies that had 132 valves (27 were surgically implanted rather than TAVR) and out of those 17 (13%) had this problem. Two of those valves were not TAVR valves.

The study found 0 strokes caused by this particular blood clotting observation on the leaflets.


I believe all of those patients were high risk in that level 3/4 category. It was noted that none of those instances caused any cardiac events and were resolved to normal leaflet mobility with anticoagulation therapy.

Well synthesized, Fundy!
One has to be leary of any kind of 'sensationalizing' information. This type of title only creates fear mongering.
 

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