New diagnosed with BAV and "minor" regurgitation.

[rakesh1167]

MethodAir I remember reading post here of a runner. His aorta was increasing, then replaced running with brisk walking, aorta remained stable for next 7 years. My aorta was 2.something in 2008. I started weight lifting (deadlift, squat included) after that. It increased to 3.5 by 2013. Stopped weight lifting and lost weight and it has been stable for 2.5 years. If my aorta was replaced in the surgery, i would have started weight lifting again(which i loved very much). It is not applicable to people with normal valve lifting heavy weight. It off course varies from person to person even with diseased valve.

 

[pellicle]

Hi

I suspect part of the answers are provided in your own post

... Part of the reason, is that in a well performed heavy lift, the pressure of the cardiac blood vessels counter and balance the rise in blood pressure.

...I suspect the reason we see so many dissections from sedentary people...

and these people are usually not trained in lifting nor breathing.

Thus the heart attacks shovelling snow.

For the interested:http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article....ticleid=192401

While the initiating event is unknown, most patients have a structural abnormality of the arterial wall and/or systemic hypertension

 

[MethodAir]

Hi

I suspect part of the answers are provided in your own post

and these people are usually not trained in lifting nor breathing.

Exactly...

 

[MethodAir]

MethodAir I remember reading post here of a runner. His aorta was increasing, then replaced running with brisk walking, aorta remained stable for next 7 years. My aorta was 2.something in 2008. I started weight lifting (deadlift, squat included) after that. It increased to 3.5 by 2013. Stopped weight lifting and lost weight and it has been stable for 2.5 years. If my aorta was replaced in the surgery would have started weight lifting again(which i loved very much). It is not applicable to people with normal valve lifting heavy weight. It off course varies from person to person even with diseased valve.

Breathing and correct stabilization is the key. Performed correctly I think many lifters w bav can actually strengthen their valve and blood vessels.

 

[JulienDu]

I should stop listening to my cardio who is one of the top one at the best facility in Canada for heart transplant.

If you read me correctly in one of my previous post I mentioned that sedentary life can be dangerous for the heart so dont turn my own point against me. (my own valve has been strengthen by my active lifestyle, heavy lifting included my cardio told me ) You do not need to go from one extreme to the other to prove your point. There is a whole world between being a sedentary sheep and a heavy lifter nut.

What I told and will repeat is that Heavy Lifting ( wether it is cow lifting, log liftings, car lifting, pregnant woman lifting ...) put you slightly more at risk of aortic dissection when you have weaker aorta walls. Fact has been proven, just read instead of creating your own statistics. Now, that you can improve your heavy lifting by a better technique while in a gym so that you minimise your risk, I believe it is possible and it is good that you spread this message. And again, I am not saying that you are more at risk than other type of population but the risk is definitely here.

Do not take those cardios for a bunch of idiots. Their job is to save your life. It is normal that their advice is NO HEAVY LIFTING when aorta is at risk because not everyone knows how to master the last fancy technique developed but those oily gym guy, and even some of those guys that pretend to master it could do it slightly wrong.

And the gyms guys are not the only guy lifting, you have guys like me that can lift for 10 hours in the bush, with other objectives than growing muscles and listening to their body, for example making money, being productive, so you can add a stress factor to that. You have the unexperienced that have no clue how to lift ( most of the people) So cardio as a general rule do not ignore techniques like yours but they look at the general population and decide to advice : "slow down on heavy lifting but dont go back to a sedentary life either". Like Pellicle said :

|and these people are usually not trained in lifting nor breathing.

Thus the heart attacks shovelling snow.

In this case, the poster is an unexperienced heavy lifter and in your first post, you tell him to not worry about heavy lifting without mentioning your technique, what a shitty advice, good thing I brought the debate here

I don't see anything alarming there. And your BP is normal. If there was such a strong correlation between heavy lifting and ascending aortic aneurysm, strongmen, powerlifters and bodybuilders would be dropping like flies. But they aren't. Live your life, and get periodic check ups.

 

[JulienDu]

MethodAir I remember reading post here of a runner. His aorta was increasing, then replaced running with brisk walking, aorta remained stable for next 7 years. My aorta was 2.something in 2008. I started weight lifting (deadlift, squat included) after that. It increased to 3.5 by 2013. Stopped weight lifting and lost weight and it has been stable for 2.5 years. If my aorta was replaced in the surgery, i would have started weight lifting again(which i loved very much). It is not applicable to people with normal valve lifting heavy weight. It off course varies from person to person even with diseased valve.

Another example that speaks by itself but of course his technique is wrong, he is an idiot that does not master the finesse of fancy gym heavy lifter.... ( irony) Thank you for bringing this concrete example Rakesh.

 

[rakesh1167]

JulienDu I think it very important to make a decision based on as much information and examples as possible. Both my cardiologist and surgeon have advised me against lifting heavy and i am going to follow their advice.

 

[MethodAir]

Therefore there is a correlation between aortic dissection and heavy weight lifting.

Fact has been proven, just read instead of creating your own statistics.

There are large numbers of people with BAV lifting very heavy every day. If the party line you espouse is indeed correct, then show us the statistics to back it up...

The incidence of aortic dissection has been estimated at from 5 to 30 per 1 million people per year -- http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=192401

.

 

[JulienDu]

Funny that you see me as an Ostrich cause first thing that came to my mind when I looked at your full time job was that ( hence the need of weight lifting) :

Now, about your website. Not sure how it does prove that Heavy Lifter with an enlarge aneurysm and weaker tissue do not have a slightly higher chance of Aortic Dissection. I see that the mean age is 63 and very few people truly do heavy-lifting at this age ( our initial poster is 30). I did not see the word Heavy Lift in the text so I can not really comment. Maybe you were trying to prove that aortic dissection is very rare and so the heavy lifter population is barely concerned by this issue. Again, when did you hear me tell you that heavy lifter was systematically concerned by this issue.

Like a good ostrich I am I will repeat, Heavy Lifting does increase risk Aortic Dissection when aneurysm reach a certain size. Most of the cardio-medical world support that assertion. As for research, you can find a lot on google although many research are not shown. You can look at this study : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2605304/ :

A few years ago, we noticed a cluster of healthy young weight lifters who had presented to Yale with acute ascending aortic dissection and required urgent surgery. We reported this cluster in JAMA [12]. We did a biomechanical study on ourselves and found that, during severe weight lifting, we reached blood pressures approaching or exceeding 300 mmHg (Figure 13). These are levels of hypertension simply not seen in any type of cardiac care, be it in the coronary care unit or in the cardiothoracic surgical unit. We hypothetized that extreme elevation of blood pressure during lifting was a factor in the cluster of dissections we had treated in weight lifters. After publication of our original report, we received cases from around the country. We did a follow-up report enumerating 31 similar cases of acute aortic dissection in the setting of weight lifting or other severe straining activity [13]. All of these dissections occurred in young men with previously unknown moderate aortic enlargement (4 to 5 cm). We recommended routine screening of all athletes embarking on weight lifting or other heavy athletic activity. We saw this as the only means to protect these young athletes from needless death. The Olympic Committee now requires an echocardiogram for every athlete competing in the Olympics.

------------------

Now if some brain dead heavy lifter truly believe that they are not a little bit more subject to Ascending Aortic Dissection, especially when their tissue is weaker they can bleed to death I would not give a ****.

 

[MethodAir]

A few isolated incidents among millions of people lifting on a daily basis does not demonstrate any direct correlation. As the link pellicle forwarded states:

The typical patient in the IRAD registry is a male in his seventh decade with a history of hypertension who presents with abrupt onset of chest pain. A history of hypertension, which is considered the most common predisposing factor for aortic dissection, was present in more than 70% of patients.

Funny that you see me as an Ostrich cause first thing that came to my mind when I looked at your full time job was that

Unless you have something intelligent to contribute, I will not be responding further to such asinine drivel.

 

[JulienDu]

As usual, the rhetoric is wrong, the discussion was not about identifying the main cause of aortic dissection, as I never said that the heavy lifter population was the typical patient. It was to understand the risk that a very specific group of individuals incure when it comes to aortic dissection. It is a niche of at risk patient as the study I gave you explain.

But like you say, no point in adding anything, I am an ostrich and you are the genious that know more than our best cardiologist and I wish you good luck in growing your muscle with your new aortic graft, you will be safe now don't worry.

 

[James H]

Thanks for the input everybody, it's very reassuring to hear that this was caught at a pretty optimal time. I'm going to be stepping up my cardio a little every week as I push to drop weight and build up my cardio again.

I'm not much of a heavy lifter anymore. For a couple years I was lifting a LOT, 4-5 days a week but getting a job in NYC and having to travel basically nixed that one lol. I am moving to a new apartment in a couple of months though, so that has me a bit nervous , regarding the lifting on and off all day. I'll have to be cautious when the day comes.

 

[dreamwarrior13]

Hello James,

I definitely think getting a second opinion is worthwhile. I'm no doctor nor medical expert, but from what I've always understood the presence of symptoms with such a condition -- particularly as troublesome and as many as the ones you listed -- indicate that surgery is advisable sooner rather than later. While your results don't look too worrisome -- everything on my first set of results said moderate to severe, talk about scary! -- a year of dealing with symptoms like you describe sounds stressful, to say the least. And stress, of course, is bad for your heart.

Besides, you might find a doctor you like more, with better bedside manner and more patience to explain your situation and what's going to happen next. That alone is worth the trouble of seeking a second opinion. I was lucky and found a GP, cardiologist, and surgeon who were all very supportive and helpful; they helped keep my morale up even when my situation was pretty serious.

 

[HopefulHeart]

James, welcome to this site! Looks like you are receiving some great advice. That's why I love this site. I have to tell you, your story sent chills down my spine. I'm a 41 year old female who has never had any health problems, always gotten my yearly checkups and live a fairly healthy/active lifestyle. About 9 years ago, I was at an Urgent Care Center for a bad sore throat. The Dr. that examined my throat took a listen to my heart and told me I had a heart murmur. I was stunned as I'd have many, many different doctors listen to my heart over the course of my 41 years and NEVER had any of them mentioned a heart murmur. I had my heart scanned and found out I have a BAV and an ascending aortic aneurysm measuring 4.2 cm. My aneurysm has not grown these last 9 years, but I live in fear of it all the time. I know I shouldn't, but everytime I feel a pain in my chest, or arms or back, I think it's my heart. That's just me being a worry wart I suppose. But this site has been a Godsend to me. If it were not for this site, I'd feel so alone and scared with my heart issue.

 

[cldlhd]

As a general rule yes, but according to my cardio there is when associated with connective tissue disorder and BAV. I can give my case 29years 5cm aneurysm, or you can look at this other fellow with the 3 surgeries working in construction and with a 6.3 aneurysm at 30.

I've often wondered . I have bav and had my aneurysm (4.99cm ) replaced last year and when I was younger I used to lift weights to the point that the veins we're bulging out of my arm and even chest. I find it hard to believe that didn't cause the aneurysm to "progress". No way to know just as there's no way to know at what point it would have let go. Well there's one way to know but rather not go that route.
So you know a guy with a 6.3 cm aneurysm and he's working construction? I hope he has a surgery planned.

 

[cldlhd]

You are lucky to be near a highly rated cardiac center, I felt lucky to be prett close to the University of Pennsylvania for my surgery. As you've heard out here 3.8 cm isn't that enlarged and you caught it in time.
As for the rise in blood pressure being countered by the cardiac blood vessels I'm a bit confused as to why that wouldn't happen in a sedentary person as they have blood vessels also. I always thought that proper breathing helped because it helped keep blood pressure under control. Not being a smartass just honestly curious.