minimally invasive heart surgery with no bone cutting

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HeartDoc, it's great for many of us to have you here, including this pre-op BAV newbie. I've perused your web-site, and quizzed my surgeon about it. He's at Toronto General Hospital, in the department headed by the well-known Dr. Tyrone David. He said they do some minimally invasive surgeries, but only under pressure and then they usually feel stressed while doing it. You've mentioned the "practice" and "comfort" issues, and they're obviously important in any surgery, and especially so in major surgery like OHS.
Personally, I've spent the last 10-odd months thinking and blogging about an unrelated medical condition -- Achilles Tendon Ruptures! As "normofthenorth" at achillesblog.com , I worked hard (and with some success) to introduce fellow ATR patients to the recent studies that produced excellent results WITH or WITHOUT surgery, provided a modern (fast) rehab protocol was used. Many patients who read my stuff became "difficult" patients for Ortho Surgeons who were doing the same ol' same ol' ATR repair surgery on everybody -- and then often keeping them on crutches and immobilized much longer than the new evidence suggests works best! Some of my readers were quick enough to skip the surgery completely, while others got the op but speeded up their rehab protocols, and/or recovered in a boot instead of a cast, and otherwise improved their rehab while challenging their health professionals. (Thank Heavens, everybody who changed their treatment while thanking me for the advice has recovered very well! I'm not a Doctor, and my wife was afraid I was going to get sued if somebody turned out badly -- which is ALWAYS a risk!)

I didn't mind making all those doctors uncomfortable in the LEAST, in return for getting those patients onto a recovery path that had better odds AND was quicker and more convenient.

I haven't totally wrapped my head around the applicability of your M.I. surgeries to my specific situation -- facing an AVR, Aortic root replacement with Dacron, and maybe a MV repair or even replacement -- but I'm finding that my attitude has subtly changed with my migration from achillesblog.com to VR.org! My general choice of surgery now reminds me a lot of the choices I influenced at AB.com, but I'm now VERY concerned with keeping my surgeon and his team in their Comfort Zone!

I'm not the kind of person to just "go with the flow" or to place my fate in the hands of an Expert, or even God, without first checking out the details. But when facing the prospect of having somebody holding my heart in their hands (with a scalpel in their OTHER hand!), I find myself more tempted to go along with a local, well respected, highly practiced, "Good Enough" process that seems to produce low-risk quality repairs -- even if it means that I'll be worried about my sternum knitting back together for months instead of days or weeks, and vulnerable to injuries etc. for maybe longer than necessary.

I'm finding it very interesting to "get in touch with" my preferences on this decision. Of course, decisions about the type of surgery, and the kind of replacement valve, etc., ultimately HAVE to be made by the patient, via informed consent. Many people (and websites and books, etc.) can play the role of adviser to make that informed consent more informed -- and the medical team ultimately has to be willing to DO what the patient WANTS. But when it came to the decision to have ATR repair surgery or skip it -- after FOUR recent randomized trials, all since 2007 have pretty consistently shown identical results except for the surgical complications -- I would have pushed my friends and relatives pretty hard to get them to skip the surgery. "It's your decision, but so is jumping off a bridge" type thing. Some choices are smarter than others!

Your approach to minimally invasive heart surgery -- on your own website and here -- seems very familiar to me, because it reminds me of my approach to the choice of "op vs. non-op" for ATR treatment, and the choice of modern fast rehab protocols vs. old-fashioned slow protocols. So I consider you a "breath of fresh air" and a "kindred spirit" in your attitude, your preferences, and your willingness to speak frankly and bluntly in favor of the choices you see as best for the patient. Who knows, if I lived in NYC, I might even ask you to take on my surgery. (Or not! My hesitation is personally fascinating to me. Hope it's not boring to everybody else!)

Sorry to ramble on, but facing this surgery has made me think of things in ways I don't often do. If nothing else, the experience has made me more understanding of the people who read the Achilles evidence I presented on that other website, and STILL just went along with their Doc's surgical plans, or his old-fashioned slow rehab protocol -- or both!


I see your point and I agree on one thing. Do not push a surgeon out of his comfort zone. When you are looking into specific minimally invasive approaches you quickly reach a fork in your decision making. You either accept the anyway excellent results of a traditional sternotomy operation by the hands of an excellent surgeon OR you embark on a search for an expert surgeon in minimally invasive techniques, out-of-town or out-of-state if necessary. See my comments on Expert Minimally Invasive Surgeons
Toronto General Hospital has an oustanding reputation as a cardiac surgery center. You are in very good hands.

Best Wishes,

Heartdoc
 
I'm having AVR in January. I personally am hoping the On-X valve will fit me. Can you do minimally invasive AVR with a mechanical valve? What if the patient is somewhat overweight? At what point is that a factor?

My surgeon intends do a mini-sternotomy. I did discuss the between the ribs approach, and he said it is possible, but if he gets in there and finds another problem, he would end up doing the mini-sternotomy anyway.

Yes, I had a mini-thoracotomy AVR last year and have a mechanical valve. My surgeon said the determining factor was how my aorta sat in my chest. After a CT scan, he said the minimally invasive should be fine.
 
I had a bout of endocarditis in April that caused further deterioration of my (already) lousy mitral valve. I had endured severe regurg for years without symptoms and the TEE showed A2/P2 prolapse with P3 flail and torn chordae. My cardiologist advised surgery and so I sent my TEE and records to a top MV repair specialist in NYC and also to the Dr. Mihaljevic at the Cleveland Clinic specifically because he specializes in using the da Vinci robot. While my top priority was getting the best possible repair, I would certainly prefer less scarring, cut bone and recovery time. What amazed me was that this top NYC surgeon told me how complicated my repair would be and that, although he could do a minimally invasive repair "better than most surgeons could do a full open chest surgery", he told me that for my surgery he would only feel comfortable with the full open chest approach. I had no blockages or other complications. He even argued that stasticially the recovery times are similar. I thought that was ridiculous. I wouldn't be able to drive for a month or lift anything. He said further that there's no way Mihaljevic would do my surgery with the robot. So when I consulted Mihaljevic he laughed. He did a great repair using the robot. I was on the heart/lung bypass for only 55 minutes. I was discharged on the 4th day and went straight to the Cleveland art museum for 2 hours. Then after a nap, I went to a dinner party that evening. I even drank a cocktail because I wasn't using narcotic pain relievers - I didn't need them! I had some lingering nerve sensitity on my nipple near the 2 inch scar but that's gone. My recovery was very quick. I did have a painful episode of Dressler's syndrome (that's inflammation of the pericardium to the readers) about 11 days after surgery that required naproxin and a hospital visit. But that was a result of surgery in general and unrelated to the minimally invasive technique. I swear, I could have gone back to work 6 days after surgery but i took the week off anyway. 9 weeks after surgery I started lifting weights with a trainer. The point is, just because a top surgeon doesn't offer a minimally invasive option, get a second opinion.
 
I had minimally invasive with no sternotomy 10 days ago. My incision is to my right of my sternum about an inch and is a horizontal 3 inch incision. Couldn't take pain meds after surgery because it made me so sick at my stomach so just took Tylenol. I haven't had any major problems and would have been out of the hospital on the 4th day but was running a temp. Went home on the 5th day. My scar will be visible if I wear a low cut top. Hope this helps.

Vickie
 
I must agree, I had min invasive MV replacement done last year ( Dr. Lamelas, Mount Sinai Miami), 2 days after waking up in ICU I was pain killer free, occasional Tylenol for my lower back pain, that was about it. Very quick recovery, I was very surprised at the daily progress rate, 3 months after surgery, kayaking, paddleboarding, started with yoga (nothing crazy, just good intermediate stuff modified so its not too strenuous on the body, yoga teaches to listen to your body so you kind of go with the flow), power walking biking etc, pretty much back to normal.
I have been a yoga practitioner since my early 20s, must say that yoga helped me great deal with recovery, starting with breathing exercise following surgery, restorative classes that focus specially on healing the body and releasing stress and balancing the right side of body with the left, gentle stretches, gradual strength building and most importantly dealing with the stress of heart surgery and recovery from the trauma we went through.
Highly recommend to ALL Heart patients, young, old, in the waiting room or the ones that are sliding down the mountain at their own personal speed.
Namaste
Petra
 
It was "suggested" I might be a candidate for minimally invasive mitral valve surgery. Not exactly "offered". It was made clear that I needed to get a full CT scan to make sure I had clear arteries for bypass etc., and that even if the plan was Da Vinci, that there was always that chance that I might have to be converted to traditional if there was any feeling that they would not be getting the result they were hoping for. For this reason, a second surgeon was in the room and the team was fully prepared, if necessary.

In the end, it worked out fine. They wanted to do a repair, and were able to do a repair (as opposed to replace). They were also able to do this via Robotics, and also did a modified maze using cryo ablation at the same time.

The Surgery was done Dec 27 2010. I got up and walked out of ICU the next day. I was discharged in 3 days and even went out for NY Eve for a lite bite. This past Saturday I ran 6 miles and then did a 5k race on Sunday. I can't expect a better result, so I am sold on this technique - as long as the medical team is properly trained in this area. My only regret is not having the surgery done years ago.
 
Does anyone know of any surgeons performing this procedure in Vancouver? I'm also wondering if anyone has previously had a mitral valve repair and then min. invasive surgery and if so if there were any complications due to scar tissue that wouldn't have been a problem with the sternotomy?
 
Does anyone know of any surgeons performing this procedure in Vancouver? I'm also wondering if anyone has previously had a mitral valve repair and then min. invasive surgery and if so if there were any complications due to scar tissue that wouldn't have been a problem with the sternotomy?

Hi Jolene, I saw you've had a few surgeries, Do you go to thee Adults with Congenital heart defects clinic? I think I personally would be looking for the surgeons that have the most experince with multiple REDOs beside Mitral repair/replacements. If you haven't found them there is another great forum at the Adults with CHD org, that you might be able to find more people who've had multiple REDOs and Mitral repairs. http://www.achaheart.org/
 
Hi Jolene, I saw you've had a few surgeries, Do you go to thee Adults with Congenital heart defects clinic? I think I personally would be looking for the surgeons that have the most experince with multiple REDOs beside Mitral repair/replacements. If you haven't found them there is another great forum at the Adults with CHD org, that you might be able to find more people who've had multiple REDOs and Mitral repairs. http://www.achaheart.org/


I began seeing cardiologist at the adult centre here in late '08 but the suregeons that I have been referred to are both from the Children's hospital and both seem to have a lot of experience with redo's. I will check out your link. Thanks very much!
 
I began seeing cardiologist at the adult centre here in late '08 but the suregeons that I have been referred to are both from the Children's hospital and both seem to have a lot of experience with redo's. I will check out your link. Thanks very much!

That's good, The surgeons and staff, that usually have the most experience with multiple REDOS and more complex surgeries are usually CHD surgeons. I Hope you can find someone to answer your questions
 
It's distressing to see this thread for me at this point. In looking at the links to the Columbia website at the start of this, AVR is NOT one of the "commonly performed" procedures done with the between-the-ribs incision. So, with 4 days before my scheduled surgery, and that this showed up on a Friday night after office hours, my blood pressure just shot up a few more notches. I 've left a message on the answering machine at surgeon's office. I was told I would have a sternotomy, which surprised me based on what I'd been reading here. So maybe I need to ask more questions? After visiting a couple of rehab locations, the recovery period risks scare me more than the actual surgery at this point, and to shorted recovery time makes a lot of sense. I know hospitals are doing their best to keep MRSA out with nasal swabs of all patients, etc. but rehab centers don't seem to have that level of protection.

I've not been upset before. Now I am.
 
Hello kailin,

I too received new information 4 days before surgery. My only change was having MV repair done robotically vs right thoracotomy (though the ribs) both minimally invasive. To do this, I changed surgeons within the same practice and had to change hospitals. Ultimately, I had to change cardiologists since my old one was at the old hospital and didn't like that I changed hospitals. One hospital does robotic, the other does not. I had my surgery done at a pretty innovative hospital in Atlanta. The other hospital is very good also. If it makes you feel any better, while I was in the cardiac ward (day after ICU), my wife and I met a middle aged 55ish woman with a AV replacement. Her surgeon was in the same practice as mine. Very innovative group doing as much minimally invasive as possible including robotics, She had a chest sternotomy with a 4 inch incision. I think minimally invasive is less common in AV replacement. I'm not a doctor however. Talk to your surgeon again about the procedure and incision. NE also have a lot of innovative hospitals. Just be methodical about your decision making. Feel free to PM me.
 
When the time came for me to have surgery I sought out a doctor speciaizing in minimially invasive mitral valve surgery. At the time a doctor told me he didn't recommend this approach because it limited the doctor's view and access during surgery. I found my doctor who performed a port access MV repair and had a successful uneventful surgery. A few years later guess who is doing this type of surgery? The same doctor who told me he didn't recommend it.

Chris
 
Does anyone know if minimally invasive surgery is done to any degree for aortic valve replacement? I am looking at the latter and obviously would prefer minimally invasive if it can be done.
 
Hello, robinfairchild.

I had AVR on June 10, 2011 at Northwestern Memorial Hospital in Chicago. My surgeon, Dr. Malaiserie, said I was a good candidate for the minimally invasive mini-sternotomy, but that I needed to understand that it could end up being a full sternotomy if warranted at the time of surgery. I was hopeful, and sure enough, he was able to do the upper mini-sternotomy. My incision - healing nicely now 2 weeks and 2 days later - is about 3 inches long. It looks like it will be a fairly thin scar, but I'm not troubled about the cosmetic issues as my bikini days are long, long behind me! And besides, this way, I can show off my whole scar without being embarrassed! Seriously, I am just thrilled that I was a good candidate for it and that he was able to do what he needed to do through that incision!

My recovery is coming along well - checked out of the hospital on Wed June 15th and into a nursing home for OT and PT. (I live alone and on the 3rd floor, so I needed to be a bit further along in my recovery before heading home. I left the nursing home on Fri June 24th and am staying with my brother and sister for a few days. I'm doing the stairs just fine now, albeit slowly, and my progress just keeps coming along well. I believe most of this positive recovery is because of the minimal incision.

I consider myself blessed and lucky to have found so much information on this website. I suggest you choose your heart center and your surgeon with much care. Consider hospitals and surgeons who have extensive experience in your specific surgery. (For example, the hospital nearest me did 34 AVRs last year. Northwestern Memorial did 278!) The more experience the hospital has, the more likely the pre- and post-surgical care will be excellent and thorough. And the more experience the surgeon has, the more opportunities he or she has had to evaluate minimally-invasive techniques.

So read the board here, use US News and World Reports and/or any other resources (my insurance company also offered good comparison tools) for info on the best heart centers near you. (And even consider heart centers far away; this is your HEART we're talking about!)

Good luck!

Mary Lou
 
When the time came for me to have surgery I sought out a doctor speciaizing in minimially invasive mitral valve surgery. At the time a doctor told me he didn't recommend this approach because it limited the doctor's view and access during surgery. I found my doctor who performed a port access MV repair and had a successful uneventful surgery. A few years later guess who is doing this type of surgery? The same doctor who told me he didn't recommend it.

Chris

I understand completely Chris. I was going to go Port Access which is also minimally invasive because that is the way my surgeon did it. It wasn't until 4 days before that I changed my mind and went robotic. My cardiologist didn't like that I was changing hospitals because it's like losing a sale. In 2009, he also dismissed robotic. He continued to poo poo robotic even after my surgery. One year later, his hospital introduced the "new" age of robotic for procedures other than cardiac. I think cardiac has a steeper learning curve and takes longer to perfect I think.
 
Does anyone know if minimally invasive surgery is done to any degree for aortic valve replacement? I am looking at the latter and obviously would prefer minimally invasive if it can be done.

Yes, I had an AVR with no sternotomy, a small thoracotomy, 3-inch incision between 2 ribs on the right side of my chest. I don't consider even a smaller sternotomy "minimally invasive" as my whole idea for wanting the approach was not to break my sternum.

It was the first thing I asked my surgeon about and he said it shouldn't be a problem.
 
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