Confession

[Philip]

OK, I confess, I thought it would be easier to recover than it has been for me and that all the "slow take it very easy" recovery info was from light weights...wrong! I now know that I am the whimp in the group.
At 10+ weeks post-op I struggle to get in 2 miles at an 11:00+ pace resulting in a heart rate of least 95% of max and gasping for air. I can deal with the discomfort of training beyond the comfort zone but this is demoralizing. Did everyone go through his stage? I have even been expelled from rehab on 2 of 3 visits because they felt it was too intense for me on those days; rehab is not an intense workout and this annoys me enough that I then go workout probably much harder and longer than I should resting in "crash and burn" and even more frustration.
I promise to be well behaved and not push too hard but any insight on dealing with the dealing with the frustration will be appreciated.

Philip

 

[mbfleth]

"Men are not distrubed by things, but by the views they take of them." Epictetus

Your quote is your answer.

2 miles at an 11:00 pace? Ten weeks out? It took me twelve weeks to run three miles at a 15 pace. There is no way I could have matched your numbers. Jeez, at ten weeks I was gassed if I tried to run around the block at snail pace. Sounds like rehab for Type A people.
Give it time. It is OK to push, but I would be careful about expecting too much this soon.
I didn't start running until 3yrs post-op. It has been one year since I started running and I just ran a 5k at a 7:50 pace. I have run 1200 miles in the first year and never looked at the clock except for races. I have just been working on building a solid base by running 4-5 times a week, every month a little faster.

Were you running before going in? Is rehab on a treadmill?

 

[msiwik]

slow down

slow down

"Men are not distrubed by things, but by the views they take of them." Epictetus

Your quote is your answer.

2 miles at an 11:00 pace? Ten weeks out? It took me twelve weeks to run three miles at a 15 pace. There is no way I could have matched your numbers. Jeez, at ten weeks I was gassed if I tried to run around the block at snail pace. Sounds like rehab for Type A people.
Give it time. It is OK to push, but I would be careful about expecting too much this soon.
I didn't start running until 3yrs post-op. It has been one year since I started running and I just ran a 5k at a 7:50 pace. I have run 1200 miles in the first year and never looked at the clock except for races. I have just been working on building a solid base by running 4-5 times a week, every month a little faster.

Were you running before going in? Is rehab on a treadmill?

Philip: I feel your emotional pain. It was very hard for me to accept that at six weeks post-op, my heart was now weaker than the average person my age, especially since I had raced a half-marathon particularly well three weeks before my surgery. It boggled my mind that I had to start at a 12:00 minute pace and that I couldn't even hold that without going over the recommended limitation.

Please make sure you understand why from your medical professionals why your heart is where it it is at (I remember you having more complications than me). Then, plot a course and path, always erring on the side of doing less than more. I can send you some references to books on sports psychology that were tremendously helpful to me in learning to accept my limitations and working slowly to overcome them. There does seem to be a recurrent theme of it taking longer with running than other sports but I haven't seen enough data on this site to draw conclusions and even then, as a layperson, I wouldn't be qualified to express any opinions, particularly when there are so many variances between people.

Let me know if you want to talk offline about any of this by sending me a private message. You will run again and right now, it's way TOO EARLY to draw any conclusions about how fast you will run. I am not drawing any conclusions until my third anniversary and am methodically following a plan that didn't involve any real training to speak of until I hit the one-year mark. But I see the progress - not as fast as I would like but I see the progress. You will too. Keep the faith. Mark

 

[BillCobit]

At 10+ weeks post-op I struggle to get in 2 miles at an 11:00+ pace resulting in a heart rate of least 95% of max and gasping for air. I can deal with the discomfort of training beyond the comfort zone but this is demoralizing. Did everyone go through his stage?
Philip

Just checked my notebook. At 10 weeks out, I was hitting about 95% of my max (220-age) trying to run at a 10 min pace on a treadmill for 15 minutes. So your experience is not unique, although not everyone has a difficult time (http://www.valvereplacement.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16890).

Hang in, 10 weeks is not that long after surgery.

 

[mntbiker]

Philip,
I am impressed that you are running as much as you are already. I would think for 10 weeks out that is quite good. There was a discussion here in active lifestyles around October of last year and basically all of these active people agreed that coming back from heart surgery even for the most active person is the equivalent of the worst couch potato starting an exercise program. It will come in time. Remember that the consesus of the participants on this website is it takes about a year just to get back to normal after heart surgery.

Good luck and don't get frustrated, run with someone slower then you.

 

[Philip]

My post must have been written in one of those moments of frustration or I should have paused to proof read it. Judging from the responses I must have conveyed the idea and my frustration.

I knew I would not rapidly resume running at near normal paces but was not expecting running to be this difficult. Other activities have been easier to resume. For example I can ride the bike for 15 miles + at a semi-respectable pace at 130 - 140 BPM but can't "run" 100 meters at an 11:00 min. pace without hitting 150+. This is very frustrating.

I am going to experiment with some interval work on the track since interval workouts have always been at a deep anaerobic pace for me. Perhaps it will be easier mentally since the track has always been beyond the comfort zone? I have been cleared for 160 BPM+ for short duration. My MHR should be 170. Any thoughts?

Patience is hard to develop after 50 years, but I will work on it.

Philip

 

[BillCobit]

I am going to experiment with some interval work on the track since interval workouts have always been at a deep anaerobic pace for me. Perhaps it will be easier mentally since the track has always been beyond the comfort zone? I have been cleared for 160 BPM+ for short duration. My MHR should be 170. Any thoughts?

Philip

Hi Philip -

I've only got my own experience as a data point (and I had different surgery), but I'm not sure that your recently-traumatized heart will respond to that kind of training this early in your recovery process. You can give it a try, I would just hate to see you demoralized by unrealistic expectations. Be prepared that it may take a few more months before you feel like you're getting somewhere. I know that's not encouraging, but it may be the reality of the situation.

Take care,

 

[msiwik]

Good Advice

Good Advice

Hi Philip -

I've only got my own experience as a data point (and I had different surgery), but I'm not sure that your recently-traumatized heart will respond to that kind of training this early in your recovery process. You can give it a try, I would just hate to see you demoralized by unrealistic expectations. Be prepared that it may take a few more months before you feel like you're getting somewhere. I know that's not encouraging, but it may be the reality of the situation.

Take care,

Philip, I agree with Bill on this one. I layed off any kind of interval or tempo running for an entire year. I also found that I hit a wall at 11:00 minutes for quite a while. If biking is working for you and you need to feel the comfort of regimen, keep doing more of that. People also report good progress with swimming. Mark

 

[MarkU]

I agree with Bill's sentiments, but I'll go a bit further. IMHO, attempting any interval workouts at this point of your recovery is a bit reckless and a recipe for disaster in terms of potential injury and further setbacks.

Give yourself some time to heal. Your body has been through major trauma and you need to let it recover before pushing it too hard again. Don't worry, you'll get there, but this is the time for patience.

I would guess that you used the 220-age formula to determine your max HR. I'd suggest you get tested to determine your actual lactic threshold heart rate, which is a more useful number to use in your workouts. Let your heart rate guide your workouts at first, rather than your pace.

Mark

 

[Adam T]

Phillip,

Here is my 2 cents. I'm only 5 weeks out, but I know what you're saying about the running. I feel I'm probably at about 50% of where I was pre-op on my bike, but running? Forget it. Six months ago I was still running 8 minute miles. Now, I can only manage 3, 5-minute slow jogs in the middle of my 4-5 mile walk. I started taking 5 minute walk breaks in between jogs, and now I'm down to 2 minutes. I'm slow, but I can keep my HR at 130 consistantly now. I couldn't control it at all 2 weeks ago.

I talked to my cardio and he prescribed "LSD". Not the mind-expanding hallucinagenic, but "Long Slow Distance". Like someone else said, you're like a couch potato starting a new fitness program. You have to completely rebuild that aerobic base before you'll have any success with interval training.

What I'm going to do is take some time to rebuild the engine. I'm keeping my HR under 140 at all times (preferably right around 130), just to get that fat-burning metabolism going again. It really seems to be working. I'm sure I'll hit a plateau sooner or later, but I feel like I improve every day right now. I'm concentrating on extending my time in a specific HR zone (125-136) rather than speed or distance. I think if you use this approach, it will be easier to see progress.

Everyone is different, but that approach seems to be working for me. I hope it helps.

Adam

 

[msiwik]

Right On

Right On

Phillip,

Here is my 2 cents. I'm only 5 weeks out, but I know what you're saying about the running. I feel I'm probably at about 50% of where I was pre-op on my bike, but running? Forget it. Six months ago I was still running 8 minute miles. Now, I can only manage 3, 5-minute slow jogs in the middle of my 4-5 mile walk. I started taking 5 minute walk breaks in between jogs, and now I'm down to 2 minutes. I'm slow, but I can keep my HR at 130 consistantly now. I couldn't control it at all 2 weeks ago.

I talked to my cardio and he prescribed "LSD". Not the mind-expanding hallucinagenic, but "Long Slow Distance". Like someone else said, you're like a couch potato starting a new fitness program. You have to completely rebuild that aerobic base before you'll have any success with interval training.

What I'm going to do is take some time to rebuild the engine. I'm keeping my HR under 140 at all times (preferably right around 130), just to get that fat-burning metabolism going again. It really seems to be working. I'm sure I'll hit a plateau sooner or later, but I feel like I improve every day right now. I'm concentrating on extending my time in a specific HR zone (125-136) rather than speed or distance. I think if you use this approach, it will be easier to see progress.

Everyone is different, but that approach seems to be working for me. I hope it helps.

Adam

Adam, I think you are right on. After a while, I found it fun to watch my improvement in the same way I trained before OHS and took it as a challenge to keep my heart rate in the low intensity zone. Keep up the good work! I am hoping that both you and Philip will join us in 2007 for the second annual marathon relay event!

 

[LLJ]

Hello Phillip. adding my 2 cents as well.(Soon you will be a rich man!) Listen, I always said the mistake we make is assuming we are starting from where we left off before surgery. I still believe we must treat our hearts like they belonged to a big time couch potato and begin training from there. So, remember a long time ago when you first started training and all the books said eight weeks for 65% HR endurance training to put down the base? That's where we begin. I know I was as bad as you. I had to be better and I had to be better SOON! Well, as my fellow VR.com Vermont relay team members can attest: one year later and we're all getting "there". No one gives us a special prize for getting "there" first,but boy I can't wait for the day when I get "there" cause i'm gonna have a party! (I better get there in less than 10 minute miles though;I mean this new heart was expensive!)
I guess the best answer is now I can get there....
LLJ

 

[Philip]

Running and heart rate

Running and heart rate

I have been trying unsuccessfully to run slow and keep my heart rate in the ranges discussed but I can't. I hit 65% of max putting on my shoes and walking out the door. I am in the 150 +/- range in the first 100 meters of a slow start (13:00 min. pace +/-) even if I keep the pace in the 13:00 to 14:00 min. range for 2 miles I will be at 160 and above by the end of the first mile. My limited aerobic capacity hopefully keeps me from pushing too hard.

In rehab they let my push a little on the bike but keep me at walking pace on the treadmill. I am doing rehab 3 times weekly and trying to run, swim or bike on other days. I hope this routine will get me back on track and ready for next year's relay.

I may give the interval workout a try with recoveries of a length that will keep my HR in the same range of my 2 mile runs. I will post results here if I do.

Philip

 

[Perry]

I am 4 months out from receiving my ON-X aortic valve. I don't use a heart monitor so my info lacks numbers.....At 6 weeks the surgeon told me I could jog and it took me just less than one month to be able to cover my 5:00 a.m., <2 mile, hills included jog with the dog that I do before work. I seem to be stuck there and have good and bad days due to the Wash D.C. humidity and such.

At one point I thought I should be able to increase my distance steadily. But I now think I should sjust do what my body tells me I should - just like my very first post-op walks. None of us have any clue how our bodies will react to the shock they went through. Some folks seem to get right back into running and some take many months. I thought I should be doing more by know, when I wasn't able to push I questioned why I was pushing it. I had a lifelong heart condition and then surgery at 42. My new philosophy - When my body tells me it's ready to move on I will listen.

 

[mntbiker]

Philip,
Yesterday I went to the pool with the kids, It was in the 90's. This is in Atlanta, I am fairly certain you are dealing with similar temps where you are. While sitting next to the pool my HR was 100. At home later in the AC my HR was 64. So just the temps and humidity are going to push your HR higher for a while.

Watch how much better you do once the cooler temps get here.

 

[tommy]

Philip, if you are running 65% HR tying your shoes, I wouldn't attempt intervals. Patience is tough, but required.

 

[Adam T]

You're right about the temperature and humidity. I got caught in a rain shower on my walk/jog yesterday and jogged all the way back to my house (10 minutes) It was much cooler and my HR peaked at about 142. I couldn't do that 2 days ago.

 

[Philip]

I had to give it a try. I made a best guess estimate of what I felt I could both complete and not let my heart rate go too high and was partially successful. The plan was a short warm-up and 8 x 200 meters in 60 seconds with 60 second recoveries keeping the HR under 160 and a stop point of 170 followed with a slow recovery The workout went as follows:
? 800 warm-up at a 10:40 pace (not much warm up I was saving it for the 200?s) My HR went to the mid 150 range within the 1st 100.
? HR recovery to 120 before the start of the 8 x 200.
? 8 x 200 at target pace and recoveries. My HR remained below 160 until the last 3 when it went to the mid 160?s
? HR recovery to 135 before the start of the cool-down. My HR went to 170+ at 500 meters into the cool-down so I stopped and walked for 1600 meters. I don?t know why the HR spike occurred during cool-down; perhaps couplets?

I think this was a successful workout. It felt good just to be on a track again and the more rapid turnover was great.

I had an exercise stress test on 6/16/06 it included an exercise prescription that defined my Cardiovascular Training Zone as 116 to 159 BPM and my high Intensity Zone as 160 BPM and higher. My anaerobic threshold is 117 BPM.

Comments and observations on the above will be appreciated even if we disagree.

Philip