Annual Check-up - not so good

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valdab

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
86
Location
UK
Hi all

Diagnosed three years ago with BAV and aortic enlargement 4.5. I had echo and CT scan for initial diagnosis. I'm now 54.

Since then have had yearly echoes which continue to show no regurgitation, no stenosis and no increase in aortic enlargement ( in fact last two years the measurement has been logged at 4.4).

This year my cardiologist wanted to do another CT scan and while the echo once again showed 4.4, no stenosis or regurgitation, the CT scan showed an increase in the aortic enlargement which now measures just under 4.7

My cardiologist wants me to go and discuss he findings with the surgeon on Friday.

I'm in a state of shock and disbelief (though I don't know why - it was always on the cards). I just can't think straight. I feel like I've failed and feel guilty about what I'm going to be putting my family through. Stupid and irrational, I know. I realise many people here have been through this and worse - any pearls of wisdom or words of comfort gratefully received:smile2:

Sorry for shoddy grammar and spelling - typing on iPad on the train home. Feel like bursting into tears but probably not the done thing on public transport.:rolleyes2:

Valda
 
Hi valdab, where is the enlargement? Ascending , root, descending aorta? Is your BP normal? Do you have measurements previous to the last two years or did you only find out about it two years ago?
 
Hi
Thanks for responding. My BP is and always has been pretty low; I take no medication other than Levothyroxine for an under-active thyroid gland. My weight is normal, I exercise every day and the CT scan showed zero calcium deposits.

I found out about my condition in early 2009 which is when the last CT scan was performed. My measurement then was just over 4.5cm - today it is just under 4.7cm. The three yearly echoes have consistently shown it to be 4.4cm - 4.5cm. The enlargement I believe is on the root and just above. I'm sorry if that sounds vague - I was in such a flap earlier, I didn't ask any of the proper questions.
 
Valda, I know you must feel like the trolley just ran you over. You have a right to. No you did not fail, you have kept your body in the best shape possible and now it may be time for you to go over another hurdle. Talk to the surgeon on Friday and take what he says into consideration. Please don't let your mind start travelling into places where it has no business. Before my surgery I felt like "how will my family get thru this?" See I was and still am the same do for everyone else and put myself on the back burner. Well they came through the entire surgery and recovery ordeal like real champs. My family took such good care on me. I believe your family will do the same. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers and look forward to hearing what the surgeon has to say on Friday. Don't forget we are all here for you and you are never alone. ;)
 
Valda

I guess that its somehow easier for me because I was diagnosed with bicuspid when I was a little one. I had my first surgery when I was 12 or so which was an valveotomy (sp?). This lasted till I was in my late 20's (1992) and I had a homograph. This lasted till last year when I was (had not been for a checkup for the last 5 years) identified with a dangerous aneurysm on the aorta just above the operation site.

I was booked in for a replacement and a sock for the ascending aorta.

I know its a shock, but know that life after surgery is still good. I was almost immediately fitter after each surgery.

Certainly there are changes but keep your eye on being healthy for your family.

I am not sure if moderators post links, but here is my blog post on my operation (just before it)

http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com.au/2011/11/heart-of-matter.html

My lovely wife was instrumental in giving me something to motivate me to recover as well as possible as quickly (and as safely) as possible.
http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com.au/2011/11/backup-and-recovery.html

With respect to recovery, take small steps. Taking too big a step can set you back, so good progress is in making small steps forwards with none backwards.

I understand your shock (probably better than you may be willing to imagine or me to explain here)
 
Sounds like we have similar conditions. I to have a dilated root at 4.3 and functioning valve. I've been stable for three years but chances are will need a fix one day. What gives me comfort is that many people here have been through it and come out fine. Also there's a chance that you may be stable at 47 for some time. Keep us posted on you appointment and try to get the bad thoughts out of your head. Our minds have a tendency to exaggerate and awfulize situations.

Something else to consider that I mentioned in a previous post is that statistically there are many ways to lose ones life like accidents, cancer etc many of which have a much higher chance of occurring than not making it through with this condition. I'll have to remember that as well once I'm I your shoes one day, I know its easier said than done.
 
So I went to meet the surgeon - the good news is he is an utterly charming and lovely man. He had time, he asked questions, he did his best to allay my fears. The NHS statistics suggest he is one of the best.

He said that the increase in size is certainly something we need to be aware of but could also be attributed to the margins of diagnostic error. With my history and as things stand he said he would not suggested surgery at this point in time. He wants me to come back for an MRI in 12 months time.

I asked him a million questions and I know for sure he has me down as a highly anxious obsessive patient (which of course I am). I asked him why the mortality rate at the Cleveland Clinic appears to be 0.06% while in the UK it seems to be closer to 2%. A pretty significant difference from where I'm standing. He didn't really have much of answer and anyway it's a moot point as I don't imagine my insurers would be willing to fork out for me to cross the Atlantic when the time comes. He showed no arrogance (and I've met a few arrogant consultants in my time) and answered all my questions with empathy and good humour.

He confirmed that I am definitely 'in the waiting room'. I sort of knew it really, but my cardiologist - perhaps sensing my anxiety - used to be at pains to tell me that surgery may never happen. He also told me I had no stenosis which appears is not strictly true. The surgeon said he could hear it (?), that I have it, but it is insignificant. Now I feel a bit paranoid and think that nobody's telling the truth.....

My female cousin died suddenly of a heart attack when she was 20 (in the early 1960's) which he thought may be significant. I have long since convinced myself I don't have Marfans, but he told me that it is far from physically obvious in many people. So I'm starting to fret about that.

I was feeling pretty good when I came out until I phoned my mum to tell her the news. The first thing she said was 'are you drinking champagne?' (er, no, actually. It's been confirmed this week that I will definitely be having OHS in the not-too-distant future), then she causally dropped into the conversation the fact that another female relative (my granddad's sister) had also died of a heart attack before she was 20 (this would have been in the early 1920's). Both women on the same side of the family. Anxiety levels rising again.

So I now sit here, typing this rambling message, not sure what to think. I was pretty buoyant til I spoke to my mum. Now I'm not quite so sanguine. In fact all the death anxiety is creeping back in. I know there has been discussion here on this issue, so I will go back and read those messages. Also went to my GP about getting referring for possibly some CBT. I really want to be able to push this to the back of my mind for the next 10 months or so, but I don't think it's going to be that easy.

Thanks for reading my story and thank you to those who take the time to reply.
 
2% mortality doesn't sound bad, I doubt Cleveland Clinic would actually be 0.06%.
Two quotes from their website mention 3.9% for 2005 aneurysm repairs
http://my.clevelandclinic.org/heart/disorders/aorta_marfan/surgerythoracicaneurysm.aspx
and 4% for 2006.
http://my.clevelandclinic.org/heart/disorders/aorta_marfan/aorticaneurysm.aspx

I've seen them mention recent conventional AVR's at Cleveland Clinic were 1% mortality while nationwide was 3%

So really I wouldn't worry if the UK nationwide was 2% for anneurysm repair. Seems like it maybe better then a lot of countries averages.
 
don't fret. Car accident stats are worse, do you fret about that?

Without" giving up" try to recognize that its all about the illusion of control. We spend so much time as kids learning about how to control our bodies and our minds, but no one normally tells Westerners that in reality we control nothing.

Its like asking "are we there yet?"

I worried that I may pass on my bicuspid aorta to my kids. Seems a distant and pointless concern now.
 
Thank you for the link to the Cleveland Clinic. Not sure how I stumbled upon the 0.06%; it was certainly in their literature somewhere, but as I said above, it's a moot point anyway.

Ironically, I am always banging on about this illusion of control - how we bumble along fondly imagining we are in charge. Then somebody dies or is struck down by something awful and it becoming abundantly clear how little control we actually have. Only last week the young girl who used to serve my husband every week in the bakery was involved in a head-on collision and was killed instantly. She was just 18. So what's that all about then?

I need to have a serious word with myself and try to apply my generally positive attitude to the situation in hand. I do feel insanely lucky - especially when I read about what others have gone through so I'm sure I'll get through this. I do find it intolerably difficult to get past stories like the young girl mentioned above or some of those on this forum; life is so cruel. But I guess that's a whole other issue.

Pellicle, I can't begin to imagine how you've found the strength to deal with your situation, but don't ever rule anything out. Nobody knows what is round the corner - I realise that's such a clichéd thing to say, but pretty much everything sounds like a cliché in such situations. I appreciate you taking the time to reply to me.
 
Valdb

I genuinely want to help ease the difficulty of others going through this sort of thing. I understand it must be shocking when one has lived ones life healthy and away from the medical scene. At the risk of getting into cliche I believe that those who have been sick and recovered are stronger than those who have never been sick.

As a 27 year old I decided to become comfortable with the possibility of my death when I went in for my homograph. As it happened I got 20 good years out of that valve. I viewed it as me having another chance at life. I firmly believe that my taking an active role in post operative recovery, working relentlessly on my recovery and fitnes, and eating well has been principal in recovery.

The surgeons and the hospital team are all seasoned experienced professionals.

I am sure your surgery will lead you to a new and good life.
 
hang on folks, before anyone starts fretting about mortality data there are a few very important things to be aware of, and why there can be such variations etc. Firstly, it all depends where the "mortality" is measured, ie during the operation, during the hospital stay, at 30 days at 1 year etc, and not all reports quote the same time frame. Secondly, its important to know what the "includion population is, remember, some peopel who have lots of significant co-morbidities are operated on theses days. The very elderly, the morbidly obeste, those with lung disease etc, and if the study includes "allcomers" then its easy to see why some reports show a higher mortality ...because some were almost inevitable deaths. Its also important to se who is"excluded" from the study. Some people do so well after the operation they move away and can't be contacted so they are lost to "followup" and hence are excluded from the tatistics. If you die, you will end up in a morgue somewhere, so you don't usually get lost to follow up, so the statistics can look worse if only a few people, who are actually alive, have in fact just can't be found because they are on holdiays in the Bahamas etc. Some srgeons may only operate n teh very healthy, some surgeons may choose to take on "high risk" poatients and so on and so on, so be aware, you are definately not always comparing "eggs with eggs" when you look at mortality data after operations, and please remember, sometimes the cause of death is not actually related to the valve, it can be most certainly due to a multitude of other issues. So anyway, just a word of caution, we are all individuals with specific medical issues and please be acreful when looking at statistics and evaluating risks...remember "there are lies, more lies and satistics", and also its about weighing the "risk of not having the procedure vs the benefit of having the procedure"...
 
So I went to meet the surgeon - the good news is he is an utterly charming and lovely man. He had time, he asked questions, he did his best to allay my fears. The NHS statistics suggest he is one of the best.

He said that the increase in size is certainly something we need to be aware of but could also be attributed to the margins of diagnostic error. With my history and as things stand he said he would not suggested surgery at this point in time. He wants me to come back for an MRI in 12 months time.

I asked him a million questions and I know for sure he has me down as a highly anxious obsessive patient (which of course I am). I asked him why the mortality rate at the Cleveland Clinic appears to be 0.06% while in the UK it seems to be closer to 2%. A pretty significant difference from where I'm standing. He didn't really have much of answer and anyway it's a moot point as I don't imagine my insurers would be willing to fork out for me to cross the Atlantic when the time comes. He showed no arrogance (and I've met a few arrogant consultants in my time) and answered all my questions with empathy and good humour.

He confirmed that I am definitely 'in the waiting room'. I sort of knew it really, but my cardiologist - perhaps sensing my anxiety - used to be at pains to tell me that surgery may never happen. He also told me I had no stenosis which appears is not strictly true. The surgeon said he could hear it (?), that I have it, but it is insignificant. Now I feel a bit paranoid and think that nobody's telling the truth.....

My female cousin died suddenly of a heart attack when she was 20 (in the early 1960's) which he thought may be significant. I have long since convinced myself I don't have Marfans, but he told me that it is far from physically obvious in many people. So I'm starting to fret about that.

I was feeling pretty good when I came out until I phoned my mum to tell her the news. The first thing she said was 'are you drinking champagne?' (er, no, actually. It's been confirmed this week that I will definitely be having OHS in the not-too-distant future), then she causally dropped into the conversation the fact that another female relative (my granddad's sister) had also died of a heart attack before she was 20 (this would have been in the early 1920's). Both women on the same side of the family. Anxiety levels rising again.

So I now sit here, typing this rambling message, not sure what to think. I was pretty buoyant til I spoke to my mum. Now I'm not quite so sanguine. In fact all the death anxiety is creeping back in. I know there has been discussion here on this issue, so I will go back and read those messages. Also went to my GP about getting referring for possibly some CBT. I really want to be able to push this to the back of my mind for the next 10 months or so, but I don't think it's going to be that easy.

Thanks for reading my story and thank you to those who take the time to reply.

mmmmm, in the 1960's you could have died from a chicken bone stuck in your neck and they would have said on the death certificate: "CAUSE of death: Heart stopped!"...so the cause of death of relatives may have just been completely unrelated, seriously. Secondly, its not brain surgery....its heart surgery, and they can fix you, so yes, have a glass of bubbly. Many people don't know what they have wrong with them and live in ignorance. We know, and can plan and adjust lifestyle and for the vast majority it all goes very well. Also, its not just about aortic root diameter, which can vary according to how talland big you are etc, but its about many factors, not the least of which is your abilit to tolerate exercise ( I was becoming more breathless...but only when walking up steep hills..puf, puff, pufff, and some peopekl get to the point where they can harly walk, so for that I am grateful), it also depends on LVEDV (left ventricular end diastolic volume), ventricular wall thickness, blood velocity through your valve, and so on and so on and so on. Keep fit, watch your weight, manage your BP, and you may well out live all of us without ever having a valve replacement. If you do need a valve, there will be some indicators for the surgeon, and he will explain it all. He won't operate on you if you don't need it, but he has some baseline information now, and just have your regular checkups. I had checkups for over 30 years, and I could often explain the results to any new doctor better thany the could. I have outlived three cardiologists, and two general practitioners and I have specifically selected a highly experienced surgeon and cardiologist who have a subspeciality specifically in aortic valves, and I will go for annual checkups because I just like to have a chat and have they have a poke and a prod and look at a cardiac echo and we sit down and look at the comparisons and the past results and the current results and hopefully they can pick up any changes, but already LVEDV has normalised, the muscle wall thickness has normalised, the new aortic valve is working well, the breathlessness on exertion has gone, and its all gone to plan, as it does for the vast majority of us in the heart valve club......take care, be guided by the experts who know your specific circumstance, be wary of statistics, and enjoy every day :)
 
The voice of reason! Thank you for that!
The website detailing the various statistics
http://heartsurgery.cqc.org.uk/index.aspx
is actually adjusted for expected rate of survival which is based on a EuroSCORE. The hospital where I would have the procedure comes in at 98.8% which is above the UK average of 97.3% so I'm pretty ok with that now.

I do feel quite lucky that I have found this - and believe me, it was luck - I've been assessed in cardiac units three or four times during my life and each time it has been missed. At least I have someone looking after me for the rest of my life. As you say, most people don't find out til it's too late.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to address my concerns; it is much appreciated.
 
Pardon me Valda while I clamber on to my soap box . . .

1) Your relatives died of heart issues in their 20s. You're now 54. Sounds to me like you've escaped whatever was wrong with them!

2) Is there anything you can do to change your diagnosis? Nope. However there are things you can do to be the healthiest you possibly can, and it sounds like you're doing those. Control the things you can.

3) OHS has such a connotation that it gets us all worked up - but surgeons have been doing this for 30+ years. If your problem was your appendix, you wouldn't be nearly so freaked out, but I'm guessing the mortality rate for a burst appendix is higher than OHS??? The thing that makes OHS 'difficult' is the fact that our hearts are hidden behind a great big bone that has to be sawn through. (OK I'm simplifying it a bit :))

Now, go have that glass of bubbly. Or two. And get whatever help you need to deal with the anxiety (back to 'control what you can'). Best of luck from Down Under!!!
 
What is it with all you Aussies - so much common sense and such a measured approach! Reading through the replies and I'm starting to feel a little self-absorbed and pitiful. In my defence, I remember suffering severe health/death anxiety when I was 7 (just after my granddad died suddenly) and it's continued ever since. If not me, then my parents/husband/dog - anyone who I can fret over, really. Perhaps these issues need addressing. In fact, I think they definitely do.

Thank you ski girl for your positive vibes. Now; where's that corkscrew......
 
Valda:

I am new to this BAV life story. I have only known since this past Tuesday that it is time to replace my BAV....never knew i even had it till a month ago.
My ascending aorta is dilated 4.5 cm.......I have some enlargement of my left ventricle. My cardilogist pretty much told me that AVR and AR are inevitable.
The recent increase of your AR to 4.7 is an alarm. I am lucky that I am asymptomatic. There is no need to feel guilty or blame. What most of us are dealing with on this forum is treatable and life will be very likely better than it was pre-surgery. i am looking forward to getting the surgery done sometime during the beginning of next year. dec. 4th I have a CATH and a TEE on 12/4. be strong.
 

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