A Stigma with Health Ailments?

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Duff Man

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Recently my life's been besieged by a number of different health problems. Some of these problems have significant risk and they can be deadly, which leads me to the point of the thread:

Have any of you experienced an unusual stigma from people in general that know you have an ailment? Say for example you make a lot of doctor appointments... do you sense that medical "professionals" kinda scoff when you talk about your malady? Do you feel like people are uncomfortable when you want to talk about it? Do people in your life minimize and sort of belittle your health issues and concerns?

My observation has been that my family and friends' reactions are not comforting. It's not what I expected. I get the "you're gonna be ok" and just generally weird and kind of aggravating conversation when I talk about what's going on.

Life has been way more serious and introspective for me since I found out about my aneurysm, but everyone else is still in "I'm alive and well so don't get me down" mode. I want to spend more time with my family, but they don't really. It's kind of like I get the feeling everyone's thinking "Damn, I'm glad it's not me, and don't bring up mortality again."

Whuchu say?
 
My experience was very different. All of my doctors were very concerned for me and were very honest in their opinions without making me more anxious. I talked to my GP, Gyn, dentist, a surgeon I used for a non related heart surgery. I questioned them on the surgeons and who they would recommend etc.

My family and friends were all very supportive and although they told me I would be OK they let me talk about it and even asked about it. They prayed, called after surgery, were considerate about visiting. I am by nature a very private person but I had a wonderful support group.

As Superbob said in another thread I did have some stupid questions and comments but not overall
Earline
 
Yeah. When I told my neighbor that I was going to Houston to have another heart surgery, his comment was, "oh, don't worry, this stuff is routine now!" Meaning that my surgery was no big deal. (Which was not true in any sense.) Then you get all the people who give you unasked for advice about what to do, mostly worth less than nothing, and furthermore it becomes a burden to have to be nice to them, but they feel they did you a favor by giving you their two cents worth. It's just all part of the ride, Aaron. After having had several medical crises over the years, I've learned to disclose less and less to the world in general, just for psychological self-preservation.



Wow. That totally sounds familiar. It's like no one understands... but they really can't. I have to remember that they basically have no idea what i'm up against.

I have weird emotions about it too. Like I resent people for being so ignorant about this kind of thing. I resent their resentment. A part of me wishes that my family would say something meaningful now instead of, god forbid, if I die they say it at my casket. It also weirds me out that they're not even really phased about what's wrong. I don't begrudge them peace of mind, I just think I might be a little more upset or concerned...

One family member had open heart surgery and all he could talk about right before he went for surgery was how worried he was that his lawn wouldn't be mowed. I personally think that time would be better spent saying I love you, or I'm scared, or ... whatever.

I love being a "Frequent flyer" at the Primary Care Physician's office too. It's almost like the staff there thinks I'm lying or something. I think they think there's no freakin way a guy so young and strong looking could be so unhealthy. I'd love to know what goes through their heads when I make appointments, cause it seems like it's disdain.
 
I love being a "Frequent flyer" at the Primary Care Physician's office too. It's almost like the staff there thinks I'm lying or something. I think they think there's no freakin way a guy so young and strong looking could be so unhealthy. I'd love to know what goes through their heads when I make appointments, cause it seems like it's disdain.

"I think they think"....??!! I think you're trying to do too much mind-reading. The physicians and nurses see people of all ages with all sorts of conditions. Give them a little credit. I think you are tearing yourself up excessively trying to engage in mind-reading. Give it a rest and try to relax a bit.
 
It is hard

It is hard

It is hard for our loved ones and friends to be able to comprehend what is wrong with us and how to "fix" us. I have recently just told my family I dont want you to heal me, because you cant, I just want you to listen. Honestly, I have become much more quiet about all of my illnesses, as I see in my family and friends they are tired of hearing about it. It is getting to be "routine". So I join groups like this to get support.:)
 
Aaron, cut yourself some slack

Aaron, cut yourself some slack

I understand your concern and fear about what may have to be done at some point to correct your heart problems. We have all been there and can empathize with your feelings and concerns......but you are going to drive yourself nuts if you don't let some of your fears go. When your time comes, you will do fine, just like all the rest of us. Have a good day today....and a better day tomorrow!!;):D
 
I understand your concern and fear about what may have to be done at some point to correct your heart problems. We have all been there and can empathize with your feelings and concerns......but you are going to drive yourself nuts if you don't let some of your fears go. When your time comes, you will do fine, just like all the rest of us. Have a good day today....and a better day tomorrow!!;):D


I really am getting better at dealing with IT, but the purpose of this thread is really to just hear other people's experiences with having an ailment(s) and how it effects their interaction with people.

Bicuspid boy said there's no stigma if you don't let it get to you, but I disagree. Like I said, people act different when you've got something wrong. Not all of it's bad, but I know it's different. Unless you don't tell anyone and don't get treatment, people act funny.
 
I'm actually having a much better response from people for my heart problem than other problems that I have, because everyone understands hearts -- just about everyone knows someone with a heart issue, and heart problems are not considered "weird."

One experience I have is friends and relatives who want to ask about my health issues at times when I really don't want to dwell on them. When that happens I "suddenly remember" something I was dying to ask them about themselves.
 
Stigma

Stigma

The stigma thing you are talking about is quite common. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, human nature often tends to drop people into three general catagories.

First, you've got a group that genuinely cares about what you are going through and sincerely want to help however they can. Often these folks respond by being over protective. They'll try to support you even though they may not know what to do or say. To some of these people, regardless of how well you recover and rehablitate yourself, you'll always be damaged goods. Others do genuinely understand where you've been, where you're at, and will do whatever they can to help you get where you want to go.

Second, you've got another group that isn't really interested in being concened about you because they're too concerned about their own problems (real or imagined). They tend to work hard to be the center of everyone's attention. I find the people who reside in this catagory are the easiest for me to deal with.

Third, there's always seems to be a group that understands you have a problem, but doesn't understand all of the issues you're dealing with. Members of this group figure the best way to help you out is to have the expectation that you just need to "cowboy-up" and get on with your business.

The real truth is that the stigma thing is probably much more complicated than my generalized perspective. Yeah, the stigma thing is fun to deal with.

-Philip
 
I was really scared before my AVR surgery. I waited about 3 months for my surgery. I prayed & when almost time for the surgery I prayed a lot. My family, relatives & friends also prayed for me & that was very comforting.

Thanks:)
 
Have any of you experienced an unusual stigma from people in general that know you have an ailment? Say for example you make a lot of doctor appointments... do you sense that medical "professionals" kinda scoff when you talk about your malady? Do you feel like people are uncomfortable when you want to talk about it? Do people in your life minimize and sort of belittle your health issues and concerns?

My observation has been that my family and friends' reactions are not comforting.

Aaron, I have found EXACTLY the same things. I'm a trained psychotherapist (I qualified from uni last year and was looking for therapy type jobs when my heart problem kicked off) and have spent a lot of time analysing why this might be. As you say, the medical professionals and sometimes our friends and family, put such a lot of energy into dismissing, denying or minimising what we tell them, and there are lots of reasons for this, some simple and obvious, but I wonder if it's in part a little deeper.

Part of my training was specifically aimed at counselling health care professionals - in death & dying and palliative care - and they, possibly more than most people, tend to have a real problem accepting that people die. It sounds odd I know, but it's why - certainly in the UK - palliative care has only relatively recently emerged as a medical speciality. Our hospices are run by charitable organisations, not the NHS. Our system's ethos is 'death-denying'; the medical community are trained to preserve life. Anything that involves death therefore is a failure.

There are only two guarantee's in life and they are, if you're born, you're going to die. The only variable is how long there is between the two events. Why therefore are there thousands of maternity units but only a handful of hospices or wards in hospitals dedicated to palliative and end-of-life care? Because we as a society tend to be the three monkeys - the see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil monkey dudes - when it comes to living alongside dying. If we ignore it, it might go away, and if it won't go away, at least we won't have to look at it. At it's most basic level, this is because humans are biologically programmed to survive and we don't like acknowledging that we won't.

I strongly suspect that this is part of why they play down what's going on. They don't want to hear it. I believe our families and friends react in the same way for the same reason. It's like how a kid puts his hands over his eyes and sings la la la - if he can't see it or hear it, it's not happening. I know of course there are dozens of other reasons for why the medical personnel treat us as they do including lack of time, resources, personal bias towards individual patients, the fact that they haven't experienced this illness themselves, insufficient training etc., but I do think that medical professionals, as well as our closest friends and family, choose not to accept or deal with what's happening to us because a primitive survivalist part of their subconscious won't accept that people die and conditions like yours, mine, everyone's here at VR could well result in death. So by assuming you're being a hypochondriac rather than believing you - as you suspect they're doing at your doctor's office - they don't have to deal with the fact you might die. If they convince themselves you're faking or exaggerating symptoms, they don't have to deal with them... abracadabra, I don't believe you're that ill... fear gone.

I'm sure many people will disagree with me on this and think it's just psycho-babble, and it may well be, but it's a very real phenomenon that society's 'death-denying' attitude is most prevalent in the medical community.

As to family and friends, it came as a huge shock to me to watch people I thought I could truly rely on draw away from me since I've had this illness. By that I don't mean that they literally go out of my life but for instance, my daughter who is 22 has always been like my best friend really. Nowadays, she looks actively bored if I start talking about my conditions. When I suddenly wince if I get a pain, she gets this 'oh god, what now?' look.

And as has already been mentioned, people do tend to think of heart things as 'routine' so unless they've had it themselves, you may as well tell folks you've got a boil on your backside.

Then there's the good old 'well, it could be worse' thing that I certainly hear from lots of people. It makes me want to say 'yeah and it could be very lot better too' but that would sound selfish. You know when people say 'there's always someone worse off'? I've never understood the concept of why that's meant to make us feel better. We're supposed to be glad that someone else is suffering more than us? Yippeee! Just yesterday, I went into where I work to talk to my manager about coming back to work. It's scheduled for the beginning of August unless anything else goes wrong, and after we'd talked about what restrictions there are on what I can do, she said 'well, it could be worse. Think of all those people in that awful earthquake'... erm, did I compare myself to an earthquake victim??? What she was subconsciously doing was looking for something to compare my problem to - something devastating but worse, because by doing that, my problems don't seem so bad, so she won't have to feel bad for me or about me... cos 'it could be worse.'

So, to conclude this long reply :) I think the reactions of those closest to us, as well as almost any interaction we have with others who have to deal with us and our ailments, involve fear responses. Fear responses can be almost anything in nature -anger, sadness, alarm, denial to name just a few - and as we represent the thing they are scared of, potentially fatal illness, they subconsciously choose to minimise the damage to their own psychological wellbeing by minimising what's happening to us. I also think this particularly pertains to young people who have potentially deadly illnesses. It's expected that old people will get ill so we all go into auto-sympathy mode when elderely people are seriously ill, but nobody wants to look at a young person with serious illness and think 'shi*, if it can happen to that person, it could happen to me too!'

Just my thoughts and maybe they're total crap :) I should say that I have been more than pleasantly surprised at how supportive and helpful some people have been and I'm not looking to say everyone in my life is being dismissive. I'm sure you're not either Aaron, but the fact is, people do tend to get empathy/sympathy fatigue, which is why forums like this exist. If we could all share our fears and thoughts with those close to us, every time we have a concern or just want to let off steam, would any of us be here posting? I doubt it.
 
This thread is soo interesting. I honestly thought it was ''just me''. Up until 4 or 5 months ago I had 2 ''best'' friends who, because I always kept things to myself, and if they asked how I was I would give them the ''filtered'' version, in other words, just say ''ah Im doing ok''.... constantly asked me to ''ask them'' for help if I needed it. But for the last 6 months or so Iv been feeling so unwell that I couldnt hide it any more, and started to tell them how I was ''really doing''....and hey pooof... theyve disappeared.

They know my situation...I dont have family...husband.....partner.....just my kids. Im trying to understand, but part of me is cross with them...sigh !!!!
 
I know I tend to minimize my mom's ailments, like Lynn's daughter I roll my eyes and get that "What now?" attitude on. Unlike Lynn's daughter, I'm dealing with a 77 year old who is expected to feel the way she does, so initial reactions aside, I quickly remember that I really am a caring human being, then fall all over myself to help her as much as I can.

As to why I react that way is because of the fatigue factor. Sometimes, my mom doesn't do all she can to avoid the pain response of her body to activity; for instance, if standing on concrete hurts her back and knees she'll neglect to wear sensible and comfortable shoes to stand in a line at a concession booth or take her cane if she's going to need to walk a ways. In spite of her own negligence, as a person who's close by and loves her, I need to muster my resources to do what I can to a) empathize and b) assist her in her difficulties.

On top of that, Mom is also impacted by my health issues and whatever guilt and worry goes along with that. My kids and husband go into self-defence mode and although supportive, also begin to gird their psyches and emotions against losing me to disease. They withdraw from the ill me -- just a little bit, so that they can protect themselves from grieving too soon and possibly inappropriately.

I hate that my friends and family are subject to this constant worry but, when they ask me how I'm doing, I always am upfront. The one way I've found to mitigate the withdrawal response best is to ask them how they are, listen attentively and then tell them something good about my life. If I'm specifically asked about my heart, I'll update them on that. If they just want a general idea of how things are, then sharing my good thing will serve to allay any concerns they might harbour.

I come here to read and sometimes offer my two cents. I rarely have cause to complain, but I know the people who are members of VR.com have a genuine investment and interest in my heart health so I do it here. :p
 
Aaron ~ I've experienced the same things as you. From friends mostly. I'm having AVR surgery soon (i see my dr. on Wednesday to sign all the pre-op forms and then do the pre-op tests). My one friend said "how would you like to be me...i need a new transmission for my car and can't afford it". Then, my aide (i'm paralyzed from the upper chest down due to Chondrosarcoma of my spine, ribs and right lung back in 1981 so i need an aide to help me do personal care), said she would trade problems with me anytime...she's 30 and has a boyfriend who treats her really bad (in my opinion she asked for it since she met him when they were both drunk at a bar and she was buying a house and living with him within a week!!). Then my other friends mostly ignore me as they know i really need to talk about this. My cardiac surgeon told me i have "slim to none" chance of getting off the ventilator because of being paralyzed and being unable to deep breathe or cough, and he knows i don't want life on a ventilator. But without it i have around a month or a little more to live based on the severity of the aortic stenosis due to a bicuspid valve. I have to decide on Wednesday if i'm going to have the surgery or not and i have nobody who really wants to talk about it. My neighbors just want to know what i'm going to do with my possessions if i die since they said they want certain things of mine. Believe me, they're not getting them!! So, yes, i've had the same problems as you. Also, people are SO ignorant about paralysis....they think because someone's legs are paralyzed, their brains and ears are too...they shout at me all the time or ask people with me what i would like to order for dinner...just shows how ignorant some people can be! Life is just not that easy sometimes, but i've had to learn to deal with it.
 
"I think they think"....??!! I think you're trying to do too much mind-reading. The physicians and nurses see people of all ages with all sorts of conditions. Give them a little credit. I think you are tearing yourself up excessively trying to engage in mind-reading. Give it a rest and try to relax a bit.

100% Amen!!....I find that when people (including myself) obsess over what others may think or feel they are wasting time and quite frankly placing too much importance on themselves. One way I have learned that works in getting out of that mode (we all are there from time to time) is to concentrate on the needs of others.
 
Dawn-Marie, I'm so sorry you find yourself in the company of insensitive and selfish people. You must wish that someone could make the decision about the surgery for you, I know I would be doing just that if I were in your place. It hurts to come to the realization that come Wednesday you'll be facing that choice alone. You can rest easy once you take those first steps down the road though since it's gonna be your course of action on a journey you've had the good fortune to map.

I'm sending my good thoughts and wishes for an easy decision and positive outcome next week.

Take Heart,
Pamela.
 
I will answer that Oaktree. No, even with all the problems i have i would not trade places with her for anything. She doesn't believe in God, she has a close to pornographic website on My Space and she doesn't take good care of her 12 year old daughter. She is beautiful (when we go out all the men stare at her), but looks are about all she has, sad to say. She relies on her looks and flirting with men to get her everything she wants. Beauty fades though with time and if she doesn't have a kind, good spirit and love of God she truly is worse off than i am. I would love to trade places with her for an hour though just to see what it's like to have men go crazy over me (i'm 57, in a wheelchair and with severe scoliosis due to one of the back surgeries i had and it would be fun to have men give me attention for just one hour, lol). But then i'd go back to being myself.
 
Dawn, I can't imagine what you're going through and can only wish you the very best and hope that you can find peace with your decision - whichever way that goes. You've obviously suffered a great deal all your life and done so with aplomb and grace. You put to shame people like me who whinge about things and get angry with my situation. I don't think I would have the fortitude to bear what you've been through and will go through in the future.

I am personally not a religious person in the traditional sense, but my mum used to say that God wouldn't send us more than we could bear. I hope she was right and that you don't have to endure a lot more suffering.

My very best wishes to you.

Lynn
 
I'm a trained psychotherapist (I qualified from uni last year and was looking for therapy type jobs when my heart problem kicked off) and have spent a lot of time analysing why this might be....
It's like how a kid puts his hands over his eyes and sings la la la - if he can't see it or hear it, it's not happening....

Then there's the good old 'well, it could be worse' thing that I certainly hear from lots of people....

You forgot another possibility: they think they are supposed to "act cool" about serious medical conditions. This is supposed to make you feel less scared. They may be worrying in private.

(I didn't say this is a sensible way to behave; I'm just saying it's deliberate, not subconscious.)

As for "it could be worse," I have to share something funny. Well, at least it was funny to me.

My Dad is a doctor who always has a very optimistic attitude. When he had prostate cancer that spread to his lung, he insisted that his surgeon friend remove half of that lung. Then he went back to work, wearing a catheter, ten (10!) days after surgery.

That was a dozen years ago. Fast forward to now, after he read all my test results, the ones that indicated giant aorta, marfan's, must operate soon. I thought the doctors were being alarmist. I expected him to call me and say, "It's not too serious," and/or "we do these operations all the time; it's no big deal."

What he said was, "Well..... the good news is..... it's not an inoperable cancer."

Do this day he doesn't realize why I thought that was so funny. But that was how I knew I had a serious problem and really, truly needed surgery.
 
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