6 weeks post-op Echo: Not good!

Valve Replacement Forums

Help Support Valve Replacement Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

deek

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
201
Location
Saginaw, Michigan
I'm 6 weeks post-op MVR and had my first post-op echo, ordered by my Cardiologist just for routine and she called me first thing this morning with the results. I freaked when I heard her voice because the last time I had a Cardiologist call me regarding an echo it was to tell me I had severe MR and moderate to severe pulmonary pressures. This time it was a little different: Mitral Valve is sealed up like a drum but apparently I have moderate to severe regurgitation of the Tricuspid Valve and moderate regurgitation of the Aortic Valve. She also said that my heart was very weak, ef being only 35% and that my pulmonary pressures were high, (69mmHg). WTH? Is this common after OHS? Prior to MVR I only had mild to moderate AR and trace TR. My ej was 50% and pulmonary pressures were between 39-59mmHg. I should also mention that prior to surgery I had near malignant hypertention
(165/100-220/125) on 10 medications. For example, right before going into surgery my bp was 199/120 and since surgery it has stayed down to normal levels. Everyone at U of M is amazed by this...never thought the repair would help my bloop pressure but it obviously has. Don't know what's going on with me now...any thoughts??? Thanks in advance for help.

Dee
 
Dee.....I'm still on the "other side" of the repair, so I am of no help with your report.
I am praying for your healing.
 
I don't give much credit to echos. I would want some other tests to confirm those thoughts and numbers.
 
I don't give much credit to echos. I would want some other tests to confirm those thoughts and numbers.

What other tests should I ask for, Ross? I don't think much of echos myself as none of them, including my TEE's, picked up how bad my mitral valve was prior to surgery. My surgeon was shocked and Dr. Bolling isn't shockable. The valve was 3 x's the size of a normal valve and severaly leaking...required major reconstruction...almost wasn't repairable. So no, I don't put much trust in echos either.
 
Dee,
I am sorry to hear this, I know it's not at all what you want to hear! Echo's did not pick up my valve problems prior to both of my surgeries. My cardio did an MRI both times, which showed the severity of my leakage. I had a TEE following my first surgery which showed all OK, but then that wasn't the case. Just my personal experience. I found out after my second surgery that I have mild leakage in my pulmonary valve, which I never knew of.. I wonder if having one valve repaired, it reshapes the heart and affects other valves? I have no idea. I wish I could offer some more advice, but I would definitely see about an MRI to get a clearer picture of what is going on. Wishing you the best.
 
The gold standard test for Pulmonary Hypertension is a right heart cath. Echoes done to assess this problem can be off by quite a bit either way, so you must insist on a right heart cath when your doctor thinks it is a good time. It may be that a little more healing has to happen before this procedure, since it is an invasive procedure.

But relying on an echo for finer definition on what is going on with your heart just isn't good enough.

For a good forum on PH here is a link:

http://www.phassociation.org/Message_Boards/main.asp?board=1
 
I would definitely vote for a cardiac MRI at this point for a better look at your valves and heart size. Nancy is right about the cath, but I was told they wouldn't even consider a cath on me until I was a minimum of 6 months out but preferably 1 year post op. I noticed from my report from two weeks ago that my mitral valve leakage went from mild to moderate and my left atrium is moderately enlarged. Those are both differences since my surgery last year for the worse although my cardio was happy with the way everything looked so I'm not too worried about it.

I hope you get some answers soon.

Kim
 
I'm 6 weeks post-op MVR and had my first post-op echo, ordered by my Cardiologist just for routine and she called me first thing this morning with the results. I freaked when I heard her voice because the last time I had a Cardiologist call me regarding an echo it was to tell me I had severe MR and moderate to severe pulmonary pressures. This time it was a little different: Mitral Valve is sealed up like a drum but apparently I have moderate to severe regurgitation of the Tricuspid Valve and moderate regurgitation of the Aortic Valve. She also said that my heart was very weak, ef being only 35% and that my pulmonary pressures were high, (69mmHg). WTH? Is this common after OHS? Prior to MVR I only had mild to moderate AR and trace TR. My ej was 50% and pulmonary pressures were between 39-59mmHg. I should also mention that prior to surgery I had near malignant hypertention
(165/100-220/125) on 10 medications. For example, right before going into surgery my bp was 199/120 and since surgery it has stayed down to normal levels. Everyone at U of M is amazed by this...never thought the repair would help my bloop pressure but it obviously has. Don't know what's going on with me now...any thoughts??? Thanks in advance for help.

Dee


Dee,

I may have missed on previous threads as I am out of Town but what is more important I think is how you feel...my surgeon did not believe in echo before surgery and still does not give much importance to echos after surgery.
 
Dee,

I may have missed on previous threads as I am out of Town but what is more important I think is how you feel...my surgeon did not believe in echo before surgery and still does not give much importance to echos after surgery.

I'm feeling pretty good. I get tired easy and sob when I walk but I think this is pretty normal for 6 weeks post-op. I can say I'm improving week to week. This report took me by complete surprise...especially the ej of 35%...it wasn't this bad prior to surgery and the triscupid valve was only trace. Some blamed the high blood pressure for my leaky valves and said if the pressures went down so would the regurg. Since my surgery, my blood pressure has been down and has stayed down thus far...but now the tricuspid valve is worse. I really don't trust echos as none of them showed how dialated and leaking my valve was prior to surgery but I can't have an MRI due to having a pacemaker.
 
Wish I had some words of wisdom but I know nadda about this stuff.

I'm sending you a big cyber hug though.
 
Given the complexity of your initial Heart parameters and your Surgery,
if I were in your place, I would want to do my Follow-Up Care with your Surgeon.

Will the facility where you had your Echo send a copy of the tape to your Surgeon for his review (at NO charge)... assuming he offers to review it (give him a call)?
 
Given the complexity of your initial Heart parameters and your Surgery,
if I were in your place, I would want to do my Follow-Up Care with your Surgeon.

Will the facility where you had your Echo send a copy of the tape to your Surgeon for his review (at NO charge)... assuming he offers to review it (give him a call)?

That's what I was thinking, too! Going to have my cardiologist send the tape to my surgeon. He's pretty much released me and wiped his hands of me since he fixed my mitral valve, but I think he needs to know this. I did some looking on-line and it seems that tricuspid regurgitation is often overlooked in patients who have MR and later have to have it repaired/replaced. In fact, I just read an article advocating for TR repair w/ ring for functional moderate TR during the MR surgery as many have TR that persists and worsens after and the prognosis isn't as good with isloated TVR's. Doesn't anyone on here no anything about this?
 
Brian had a really bad 6 week echo after his last OHS. They adjusted his meds a bit and it got a lot better. I think your surgeon definitely needs to see it though.
 
Your heart is undergoing a lot of changes. No answers necessarily, but here are some thoughts from a non-medical-professional viewpoint...

With the high-pressure system you had, the pressures themselves can seal up some leakage, such as the tricuspid. Letting off the pressure can cause some leakages as well. There is a fair likelihood that there wasn't a tricuspid leak when you were "at pressure."

- Trace leakage is often temporary and isn't really actionable, even if you're working close by, in the next ventricle. It's so little that it comes and goes for many people from echo to echo, and it can often be changed if the petient shifts angles during the echo. The surgeon likely wouldn't be able to tell if yours would stay a slow drip as it was, or turn into an unfortunate faucet that's always running. I am a bit surprised he did nothing with the aortic valve while he was there, though.

- Most people who have mitral work done don't require any attention to their tricuspid valves, so with a lack of more than trace regurgitation, there would be little impetus for the surgeon to fix something that probably didn't appear to be broken.

- Your heart was likely enlarged, and is now beginning to remodel (return approximately to its original size). That process often happens somewhat unevenly, and causes some misalignment of valves and their seatings. While it wouldn't be entirely responsible for a moderate regurgitation, it can contribute. Transient trivial and mild regurgitations from this come and go during recoveries.

- Your entire system has been running with extraordinarily high pressure for some time. The semi-separate pulmonary (lungs) circuit may still be at high pressure (it's common for people with valve issues to have secondary pulmonary hypertension, even if they don't have high BP). That often recedes after successful valve surgery, but not always. Sometimes it can't ramp down and evolves into Primary Pulmonary Hypertension. It takes a while, so it's a wait-and-see game.

- You might ask if there's some enlargement of your right ventricle, as that might go along with the tricuspid leak and the high pulmonary pressures. Other things that might accompany it are enlarged atria, the left from pressure from the lung circuit, the right from backpressure from the tricuspid leakage. However, it might not be easy to tell if it's from this issue or your previous issues. An enlarged right atrium can make a tricuspid valve seat poorly. If there's PH, there's also backpressure against the tricuspid valve when the right ventricle is trying to fill the pulmonary artery.

- Your heart is now pumping much less hard than it was before. It may take a while for it to find its proper beat strength. Your Ejection Fraction may come and go a bit for a while. And the Aortic Regurgitation affects the EF negatively as well. If you are on a beta blocker, they might want to cut it down or change it over to a different prescription, like an ACE inhibitor or a calcium channel blocker that won't soften the beat.

- valves that are exposed to high pressure and are then used at lower pressure have a tendency to be or to become somewhat leaky. For this reason, aortic donor homografts are no longer used as pulmonary grafts. Oddly, it doesn't seem to be a problem the other way around.

Time will likely improve some of your problems, but not all. Echoes are not really accurate for pulmonary pressures, so you can take that with a grain of - um - non-sodium salt substitute. An MRA might show you something, or even an echo from a different tech. A stress test probably will not show much that's helpful at this point.

Best wishes,
 
You might want to stay on a lower sodium diet, especially if you have some PH problems. That can cause fluid buildup especially ascites (abdominal fluid buildup). If you are feeling that your abdomen is a little larger, that would be an indication.

It's a good practice to weigh yourself each morning w/o clothing and after voiding so you get a good idea of fluid gain. A couple of pounds in a day, 3 pounds over 5 days, is not fat. That is fluid. Taking a girth measurement (around your waist) each day after weighing yourself will be helpful too to keep track of ascites.

Be particularly aware of any right sided abdominal gain. Joe (who had PH) would get fluid backup even in his liver.

Any noticeable changes call your doctor.
 
Your heart is undergoing a lot of changes. No answers necessarily, but here are some thoughts from a non-medical-professional viewpoint...

With the high-pressure system you had, the pressures themselves can seal up some leakage, such as the tricuspid. Letting off the pressure can cause some leakages as well. There is a fair likelihood that there wasn't a tricuspid leak when you were "at pressure."

- Trace leakage is often temporary and isn't really actionable, even if you're working close by, in the next ventricle. It's so little that it comes and goes for many people from echo to echo, and it can often be changed if the petient shifts angles during the echo. The surgeon likely wouldn't be able to tell if yours would stay a slow drip as it was, or turn into an unfortunate faucet that's always running. I am a bit surprised he did nothing with the aortic valve while he was there, though.

- Most people who have mitral work done don't require any attention to their tricuspid valves, so with a lack of more than trace regurgitation, there would be little impetus for the surgeon to fix something that probably didn't appear to be broken.

- Your heart was likely enlarged, and is now beginning to remodel (return approximately to its original size). That process often happens somewhat unevenly, and causes some misalignment of valves and their seatings. While it wouldn't be entirely responsible for a moderate regurgitation, it can contribute. Transient trivial and mild regurgitations from this come and go during recoveries.

- Your entire system has been running with extraordinarily high pressure for some time. The semi-separate pulmonary (lungs) circuit may still be at high pressure (it's common for people with valve issues to have secondary pulmonary hypertension, even if they don't have high BP). That often recedes after successful valve surgery, but not always. Sometimes it can't ramp down and evolves into Primary Pulmonary Hypertension. It takes a while, so it's a wait-and-see game.

- You might ask if there's some enlargement of your right ventricle, as that might go along with the tricuspid leak and the high pulmonary pressures. Other things that might accompany it are enlarged atria, the left from pressure from the lung circuit, the right from backpressure from the tricuspid leakage. However, it might not be easy to tell if it's from this issue or your previous issues. An enlarged right atrium can make a tricuspid valve seat poorly. If there's PH, there's also backpressure against the tricuspid valve when the right ventricle is trying to fill the pulmonary artery.

- Your heart is now pumping much less hard than it was before. It may take a while for it to find its proper beat strength. Your Ejection Fraction may come and go a bit for a while. And the Aortic Regurgitation affects the EF negatively as well. If you are on a beta blocker, they might want to cut it down or change it over to a different prescription, like an ACE inhibitor or a calcium channel blocker that won't soften the beat.

- valves that are exposed to high pressure and are then used at lower pressure have a tendency to be or to become somewhat leaky. For this reason, aortic donor homografts are no longer used as pulmonary grafts. Oddly, it doesn't seem to be a problem the other way around.

Time will likely improve some of your problems, but not all. Echoes are not really accurate for pulmonary pressures, so you can take that with a grain of - um - non-sodium salt substitute. An MRA might show you something, or even an echo from a different tech. A stress test probably will not show much that's helpful at this point.

Best wishes,

WOW! Thanks, Bob! You sure know your stuff and have a great way of getting it across for us layman. Have you ever considered becoming a DR? Again, thank you! I appreciate it very much!! Dee
 
You might want to stay on a lower sodium diet, especially if you have some PH problems. That can cause fluid buildup especially ascites (abdominal fluid buildup). If you are feeling that your abdomen is a little larger, that would be an indication.

It's a good practice to weigh yourself each morning w/o clothing and after voiding so you get a good idea of fluid gain. A couple of pounds in a day, 3 pounds over 5 days, is not fat. That is fluid. Taking a girth measurement (around your waist) each day after weighing yourself will be helpful too to keep track of ascites.

Be particularly aware of any right sided abdominal gain. Joe (who had PH) would get fluid backup even in his liver.

Any noticeable changes call your doctor.

Thank you, Nancy! Since my surgery, my systemic blood pressure has stayed down to normal levels so I haven't been really watching my sodium intake. Yes, I have noticed some weight gain, particularly in my abdomen and my chest feels very congested. The fact that my bp has gone down since surgery but my pulmonary pressures haven't scares me, making me think that I really do have PH. Also, prior to surgery, my tricuspid valve was considered trace...now it's moderately-severe...not that I have a lot of faith in echo's as NONE of them, including my TEE's indicated how bad my mitral valve was. The problem for me now is that I'm only 7 weeks post-op so I can't have a cath and I can't have an MRI due to having a pacemaker. I'm trying to obtain a copy of the echo for my surgeon so he can give me his take on it. Again, thank you so much for your help. Dee
 
You probably know that high systemic BP (hypertension) has nothing to do with PH (pulmonary hypertension). Lots of people get mixed up because they both have hypertension in the name. I've even met doctors who didn't have a clue about which was which and thought one caused the other. :(

Different animals and different causes.

Joe's chest felt congested too, and he told me that when he bent over, he thought his head was going to pop off. I have heard that symptomatic phrase on the PHA website forum from others with PH too.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top