reprieve, second opinions and natural remedies

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Gail K

Hi All,

I was diagnosed with aortic stenosis about this time last year. I had a double cath and tee and was told I also had an "important" artery that was 80% blocked. Surgery was recommended and I was told not to wait months. I had an uneasy feeling about the surgeon and decided to go to the Cleveland Clinic for the surgery. After a day of testing, the surgeon there told me they couldn't see any blockage in any artery and I wouldn't need valve replacement surgery for another 3 to 5 years. I wouldn't have known about the Cleveland Clinic if it hadn't been for this message board so, needless to say, I really appreciate this board and everyone here. It appears second opinions are very important - as well as trusting your instincts.

Anyway, the reason I'm posting here is I'm really into natural remedies. I know this is a long shot, but I'm worried about major surgery like this and I'm hoping that I may be able to prevent it by finding something that will help since I have the extra time now. I found a website that sells green papaya powder and claims that "Papaya enzymes also have the ability to penetrate the tissues and help dissolve injured and hardened tissues, and thus may help alleviate hardening of the arteries." I thought this might also help with hardening of the valve due to calcium deposits. I'm wondering if anyone has tried this or any other natural remedy that they feel is helping. Before you tell me I'm really naive, please understand that I have had good results with natural remedies for other things and I really want to investigate this possiblity even as remote as it may be.

Many thanks and best wishes to all of you.

Gail
 
The easiest thing to say is, if it worked, everyone would be using it. It does get into tissues: dead ones. Papain is a well-known meat tenderizer, and can even be used to take some of the sting out of bee bites, when applied directly. However, I challenge that website to show any scientific study that indicates that it's actually able "to penetrate the tissues and help dissolve injured and hardened tissues, and thus may help alleviate hardening of the arteries" when taken orally. Papain doesn't enter the bloodstream from the stomach, and never gets near your arteries. Be glad - it would tenderize your heart.

However, if your doctor deems it harmless, then it's simply a waste of money. You always retain the right to do what you like.

Best wishes,
 
Well, while you are experimenting with natural remedies, please make sure you go to all your regular medical appts. They are more important for valve problems.

And discuss the things you are taking with the doctor to make sure they do not interfere with any medications you might be on.
 
Reprieve

Reprieve

Hi Gail,

It's good to hear that you'll be getting some additional time with your original equipment. I would like to echo what's been said about having your condition monitored. When it's time for OHS it'll be time to get things taken care of.

Lots of folks swear by natural remedies to cure lots of things, but I'm skeptical about using natural remedies to cure heart valve problems. The heart valve problems many of us have had are congenital issues. I doubt any natural remedy would have fixed the bicuspid aortic valve that I was born with. After fifty years of service my valve needed replacement.

About twenty-seven years ago, I worked with a lady who found out that I had a heart problem. She believed her church group could fix my heart problem by laying their hands on me and doing some kind of healing prayer thing. I appreciated the group's offer and their faith, but I passed on their offer. Maybe I should have let them give it a try; if it had worked I would have been famous and I could have avoided surgery.

-Philip
 
tobagotwo said:
The easiest thing to say is, if it worked, everyone would be using it
Click to expand...
TOO RIGHT.
Personally i would tend to stear away from things like this to avoid major dissapointment.
Glad things are going your way for now, wishing you the very best of luck.
 
That's very interesting that CC didn't see any evidence of the 80% blockage reported by your first surgeon.

I would ask for a copy of the Original Test Report (well actually ALL of your test reports, cath, echos, labs, etc).

I am a BIG Believer in Multiple Opinions and understanding one's condition (i.e. reading and understanding all of one's test reports).

I don't have much faith in natural remedies for Valve Problems. When you have a Plumbing Problem, you need a Plumber. When it comes to the human circulatory system, a Cardio-Thoracic Surgeon is the 'plumber'.

Now that you have a reprive, I recommend Frequent Echocardiograms. My (second opinion) Cardio was hoping to postpone my AVR by 3 to 5 years with medication. ONE YEAR later 'it was time' and I got into surgery 'just in time' 2 months later. As we often say on VR.com "The Worse It Gets, the Faster It Gets Worse"!

I would ask your Cardio for 6 month checkups with Echocardiograms. After re-examining my echos, signs of 'change' were evident 6 months before the recommendation to proceed with surgery. That would have been the 'better' time to have scheduled my surgery.

'AL Capshaw'
 
Gail -

How would you like to have a Cleveland Clinic Surgeon
but closer to home?

You might be interested in Dr. Patrick McCarthy at Northwestern Memorial Hospital, Chicago, IL

He was recruited from CC by Northwestern,
after saving Ross's life, much to Ross's chagrin.
Everyone speaks VERY HIGHLY of Dr. McCarthy.

'AL Capshaw'
 
"Papaya enzymes also have the ability to penetrate the tissues and help dissolve injured and hardened tissues, and thus may help alleviate hardening of the arteries."

Please don't waste your money and hopes on internet nonsense. How would a papaya emzyme or any non-specific enzyme target specific tissues?

Our is a mechanical problem that requires a mechanical fix.

Papaya will not hurt you, but it will not help with heart problems. Fish oil is showing good cardio-protective properties, but again it will not fix a mechanical problem. That is what the heart surgeons are for.
 
. . . "have the ability to penetrate"....and "may help." Even the website hawkers have hedged their pitch, and with good reason. No scientific proof. Please don't entrust your life to such unproven remedies.
 
if I were you, I'd get a third opinion. something doesn't sound right. obviously, most people would go with the easier to swallow news, but the first opinion may be right on.
 
hey Gail,
my girlfriend told me that I should just pray instead. if I listened to her, I'd be dead now. so much for your instincts.
 
Thanks

Thanks

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

My aortic stenosis is a result of having had chemotherapy 22 years ago.

Since my erroneous diagnosis regarding valve surgery from the first group of doctors in Milwaukee, I learned they have a reputation among other medical professionals for doing surgical procedures that are not needed. In fact, they were my mom's doctors at the same time and my familiy and I believe they were the cause of her ungodly suffering and premature death.

On the other hand, when I decided to change surgeons and went to the CC, I had the Director of the Heart Center as my surgeon and he and three other doctors at the Clinic looked at my test results and came to the same conclusion that I didn't have any blockage in any of my arteries. That being said, I do believe in having a third opinion when the opinions are so different and I have sent my test results to another surgeon and am awaiting his opinion. I also have been told by my CC surgeon to have echocardiograms every six months.

I appreciate your input about the green papaya powder. What you say makes sense. I am not looking forward to open heart surgery and I especially worry about complications and long term effects, especially since I've had so many unexpected long term effects from cancer surgery, radiation and chemotherapy.

Thank you again for your replies and I wish you all good health.

Gail
 
vitamin K

vitamin K

Me Again,

I just came across this by doing a search under 'natural remedies' / 'homeopathic remedies' at this message board:

"While Mies Vermeer in Holland believes that Vitamin K can reverse vessel and valve calcification, it is still not well enough established, and my time is too short, to wait for more studies. (Several short-term studies indicates his conclusions. Life Extension Foundation also indicated in a recent article the values of Vitamin K, and of course, Vitamin K is a standard treatment for osteoporosis in Japan.)"

I also read somewhere that green tea is loaded with vitamin K. I know you all probably already know which veggies have it so I won't list them here. While nothing is proven, I can't see any harm in someone who has valve calcification giving this a try, if only to slow down the process.

I don't know what the remark about vitamin K being used as a treatment in Japan for osteoporosis would indicate as it seems to me one would be wanting to increase the amount of calcium in their diet to treat osteoporosis, but at least it indicates some connection between vitamin K and calcium. Maybe vitamin K somehow regulates how calcium is used or not used by the body??

Thanks,
Gail
 
Natural Therapies- Linus Pauling

Natural Therapies- Linus Pauling

Hi Gail

While I am a disciple of orthomolecular medicine I realise the vital place of standard meciations in treating diseases. So I would never suggest that anyone should stop taking prescription medication unless they consult their medical practitioner first. I have BAV and believe that the possible longevity of my valve has been helped in part by using the Pauling Therapy and perhaps megadosing with Omega three fish oil .Dr Barry Sears has written quite an informative book about this. If you were to google search "Linus Pauling" you would find a great deal of information about The Pauling Therapy. He was not a quack but rather a Nobel Prize winning scientist.

I have also found that magnesium cured my miagraines after many years of putting up with these and the element boron has greatly improved my partnersfeet from osteoarthritis.

I MUST WARN HERE THOUGH THAT SUBSTANCES SUCH AS OMEGA THREE FISH OIL AND MAGNESIUM MAY INTERFERE WITH SOME PRESCRIPTION MEDICATIONS SO PLEASE DON'T ATTEMPT TO TAKE SUBSTANCES SUCH AS THESE UNLESS YOU CONSULT YOUR DOCTOR FIRST.

Cheers Butterfly.
 
thank you

thank you

Hello Butterfly,

Thank you for the information.

I have a friend who gets terrible migraines. Could you please tell me how much magnesium you take and if you recommend a particular brand? I'd like to pass this info along to her.

Thank you,
Gail
 
Miracle Cure

Miracle Cure

Geez Witzkeyman! Have you checked to see if your girlfriend had a life insurance policy on you or something?

At the risk of offending some folks...I firmly believe one of the true miracles associated with heart valve problems is that surgical procedures which can fix the problems are available...it's also something of a miracle that the procedures and technology have been perfected enough to allow for surgical survival rates to be hugely in favor of those who need the surgery.

The true miracle in my opinion is that God has given us the ability to develop these procedures and allows people to develop the skills to utilize the procedures to fix the problems...

Is it natural for people to want to avoid OHS? I have little doubt that all of us who've faced it or will face it at a future date were(are) not thrilled about it. Despite all of the negative feelings and emotions; despite our fears, the technology and the science as well as the people who know how to use it are available...this is the miracle cure...Amen.

-Philip
 
If Joe had relied on natural remedies, he would have been dead before the age of 50. With the surgical fixes 3 on his heart and 2 on his lungs and prescription medications, he lived to age 75 with multiple co-morbidities.

It is a problem that requires surgery.
 
al capshaw 2

al capshaw 2

Hi, I'm with you on second and even more opinions, but I guess I just don't know what it takes to get in to get a consultation with a surgeon. It has been taking forever and all we seem to get is the run around from office people. Any suggestions?

alpha 1
 
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