Surgery Consult Done, Doc says he does 10 a year

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harleygirl528

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
225
Location
Silverdale, Washington
Hi there,
I have my first surery consult yesterday with Dr. Teply at Swedish Medical Center in Seattle. It was a very tired, day-long excursion as it turned out. I live on the other side of Puget sound and so my husband and I took the ferry across to seattle and then a cab ride to the hospital. We ended up waiting 2.5 hours just to see the surgeon, which was fine because as it turned out he was in the middle of a surgery and I realize that comes first! They were fitting me in and it wasn't normally his day for consults so I appreciated that. My sister, who is a nurse in a cardiac cath lab, went along for support which was great.

Anyway, here is what he said: My aneurysm is actually right at 5 cm according to angiogram CT...not 4.8 cm. He does do aneurysm repairs involving the root and the arch...he says he does about 10 a year...but said for some reason this year he had done more, probably 10 in the last month. In fact, the surgery he was getting out of involved a lady with a 7.8 cm aneurysm.
He said that I do meet the criteria for surgery if I wanted to do it now but that it would be completely appropriate to take a "wait and watch" approach, get a ct in 3 months to see if it has grown and then every 6 months after that. He says that I am at a lower risk of rupture because he has me on blood pressure medicine (toprol 25 mg). He seemed to be very calm, cool and collected. He took us in and showed us the aneurysm on CT...and also noted a couple of congential abnormalities with my heart...something to do with my coronary arteries being almost fused together and enlarged...and my heart is enlarged which he says there is nothing that can be done about that.

We talked about my valve and replacement options...my aortic insufficiency is mild and he felt that there was a 80% chance of sparing my native valve for now. He feels that there is a 95% chance that aortic valve replacments will be done percutaneously ...without going through the sternum, etc. within the next 5 years. He felt that tissue valves work better then mechanical and since the future is bringing less invasive procedures for replacements that might be a viable option for me to consider...makes sense to me if they don't have to open up my chest! If I opted for mechanical he felt St. Jude's was best option...I asked him about On-X...he said they haven't been around as long and don't have the track record of success yet so he didn't recommend. I know lots of you have had this valve so I am sure there are advantages to it.

He did feel fairly confident that I have a bicuspid valve and said I present with classic results of that....the aneurysm involving root and arch. He said it looks like the aneurysm of the arch only involves one of the coronary valves so he wouldn't have to reimplant all three.

I don't know if doing 10 of these a year really makes me feel totally comforable...he was referring to aortic aneurysm repairs involving root and arch...I am sure he does a lot more valve replacments without aneurysm.

My dilemna is two-fold: Is doing 10 of these a year really enough to make you an expert in this field? Also, is this "wait and watch" approach desirable just because I am on blood pressure medicine? What would be the advantages to waiting? I realize that timing is important and I am relieved that he isn't whisking me in tomorrow...I want to get things situated at home...I have a 9 year old daughter...it would be great to do it on a school break or something.
The hospital itself is really beautiful....Swedish has several different buildings..this particular "wing" is dedicated solely to cardiac and neuro surgery and care. It looks to be recently renovated and is immaculate and clean smelling with modern furnishings ammenities...there is a Starbucks right across from the family waiting room...which lit up my sister's eyes!
Also, he said that in terms of the ventilator, I may only have to be on it for 3 hours...he would be cognizant of the fact that I am terrifed of this...and I may even be off it before I leave recovery.
I did send all of my records off to the Cleveland Clinic and I will be curious to hear what they have to say. Turns out there are quite a few out of pocket expenses involved in just having them review your records...almost $1000! My insurance won't cover since I am living in the tricare west region...yikes...Maybe I should just tell them to hold off on review? I did call my insurance company and told them I want to get a second option asap...

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts on these issues...sorry for being so wordy!
 
I'll answer the wait and watch:NO. Your in the danger zone now, no need to wait for disaster to occur. I really don't think doing 10 a year makes him terribly qualified either. 10 a week or a month, perhaps. I don't know how well off you guys are to speculate whether a Cleveland approach would be better or not, but I'm not at all comfortable with him not wanting to pounce on it at 5.0.
 
I'm with Ross, a wait and see approach with a 5.0 aneurysm is not the approach to take IMHO. Wait and see approaches for valves is more acceptable, as most often a valve's progression to "the dark side" takes time. You risk permanent damage to the heart, but you rarely risk sudden death on a watched valve. You do risk sudden death on an aortic aneurysm. I don't say this to scare you, but once an aortic aneurysm starts to dissect the odds are heavily against you surviving. We have a few miracle people here who have (Ross being one of them.) My Mom was not. But we didn't even know she had one. I'm now a bit mystified why he moved your appointment to this week, from next week, if he was giving you an option to wait?

I also agree that 10 a year is not the best record. It also makes me question his reply to you on whether to replace the valve now, or wait. If it were me, I'd be much more comfortable accepting the "wait to replace the valve" suggestion from a surgeon who does 10 aneurysm repairs a week, or month, than one who does 10 a year. Yes, percutaneous valve replacements are coming quickly - but the question will be if you will be a candidate for one or not. I don't think this surgeon has enough experience with your particular condition to tell you that.

I'm sorry if I'm scaring you, I don't mean to, but I'd get on the horn and get in asap with a few more surgeons. Hopefully some members who live in your neck o' the woods can make some recommendations.

Best wishes.
 
Lorie, it sounds like you may need another opinion....and yes,
it is worth $1,000 to get it.....you only have one heart!
My friend lost her 31 yr old son to a blown aneurysm.....
 
I hear you guys, I was feeling the exact same way but wasn't sure if I was on base or not. It turns out he is the only cardiothoracic surgeon that does this procedure in this area that my insurance covers...however, they are bound by law to allow me a second opinion even if it is out of network. Therefore, I have requested an out of network 2nd opinion with the University of Washington. In the meantime, Cleveland clinic has my records and hopefully I will hear back from them soon...you're right it is worth $1000. My big concern now is that if the 2nd opinion doc differs in his opinion....does that mean I still have to have the procedure done in network by a doctor who doesn't have what I consider a considerable amount of experience with this procedure?

Also, does blood pressure lowering medication really make a difference in terms of protecting the valve from dissection?
I am so confused right now...my insurance company is literally giving me no options short of relocating temporarily to Cleveland.....I can't understand why if they are allowing me a 2nd opinion that even if that 2nd opinion differs with Dr. Teply I have no recourse?
I am trying to remain calm so that I have the state of mind I need to effectively deal with this issue...but I totally agree with everything you guys have said.

I'm calling my insurance company...I'll update you as to my progress with them.

Thanks again!
 
I'm in a somewhat similar situation with radiation damage to my heart. I'm told even the Big Centers only see a few such patients per year, making it hard to find anyone with "lots of experience".

What I have found is that I've learned something new from every Cardiologist and Surgeon I have interviewed and therefore strongly second the recommendations for multiple opinions.

I found the surgeon's comments about On-X to be interesting. Over 50,000 On-X valves have been implanted in patients in the World Market since 1996. They received FDA approval for use in the USA in 2001. It's an uphill battle for any new valve, but it's not like this is something that was 'just hatched'. See the On-X website www.onxvalves.com to learn about the technical improvements over previous valve designs.

You may be interested to know that the Pyrolytic Carbon Leaflets / mechanisms for St. Jude, Carbomedics, ATS, and On-X were ALL designed by the SAME individual who created Pyrolytic Carbon for applications in the Nuclear Power industry and realized it's potential for Heart Valves. He's been designing Heart Valves for 30 years now!

'AL Capshaw'
 
Ask if your insurance company has Nursing "Case Managers" who can help 'grease the skids' to get you the kind of care you need.

Is there an in-network Doctor who might be willing to help by giving you a referal to CC (or other out of network provider) due to the inability to get proper treatment within the network?

'AL Capshaw'
 
I agree with the others, at 5.0 waiting is unwise. I was able to stall for a few months at 4.8, but my cardio essentially put his foot down and warned me that while the risk or rupture was not huge, it was still there. And lowering your BP does reduce the risk of your aorta (not valve) dissecting. But the risk does not go away. The valve sparing surgery is newer than simple valve replacement, so it is done less. But at 10 a year I would look elsewhere.

How far away will Tricare let you go? Is Cedars in Los Angeles an option?
 
Hi there,

Thanks for the input everyone...I greatly appreciate it. My use of Tricare military health plan greatly complicates my abilities to go to the doctor of my choice for second opinions. However, after a lot of digging and constant nagging of the regional referral coordinator, I have discovered that I can switch my coverage to Tricare standard which allows me to go to any doctor I like without referrals from my primary care doc, the only caveat is I have a $150 deductible annually and I have to pay 20% but only up to $1000 out of pocket and then it will be covered in full after that. So tomorrow I am going up to the Navy Hospital and I am going to change my plan...this will greatly reduce the hassle I have been going through...I just wish they had suggested this 2 weeks ago!
So, my game plan now is to see the docs at Univ of Wash, in particular Dr. Verrier, for a second opinion and to hopefully hear back from the Cleveland Clinic within the next couple of weeks. Trust me, I am not going to wait long to take care of this. I don't see any advantage to waiting and I see the potential for lots of problems if I wait....I am relatively young (41 yo) and healthy besides the heart stuff....I feel strong and confident that I am ready to take this thing on and get it behind me....

In terms of the valve debate...My obvious hope is that my valve can be salvaged....and I want to wait to hear recommendations from the other docs before I make a decision..I know I need to decide just in case they get in there and determine it is not salvageable.

Oh by the way, I also found out yesterday that the Echo I had done in April of this year DID show the aneurysm...nobody bothered to alert me to that saying that everything was "okay and within normal limits.." Really bothers me.....I could have literally died from this without even knowing I had it if I hadn't had the MRI....

Thanks for letting me vent and having a sounding board...and as always, your input is of great importance to me....my husband is always trying to tell me what "he" would do but it isn't the same as hearing from others who have experienced it!

Take care everyone...I'll keep you posted as to my continued trials and tribulations!
 
Changing your plan sounds like a wise move and in the grand scheme of things probably well worth the extra expense. I'm glad you at least had ths option.
 
"Oh by the way, I also found out yesterday that the Echo I had done in April of this year DID show the aneurysm...nobody bothered to alert me to that saying that everything was "okay and within normal limits.." Really bothers me.....I could have literally died from this without even knowing I had it if I hadn't had the MRI...."

That is unforgivable!!!! How could they not tell you about this serious problem? I really just don't understand some doctors. Why bother going into such a difficult profession if you are not willing to go the mile for your patients.

There are lots of other professions where lives are not at stake.

Are they at the bottom of the barrel? It sure sounds like it!
 
Lorie I can't stress hard enough how important it is to get fixed asap. You may not be afforded the luxury of having who you want to do it, but right now, the main thing is it gets done. Quickly. I'd hate to lose you while waiting for the insurance company or whomever to get it together.
 
Thanks again everyone...I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my overly wordy posts...I took a little respite from all of this today and went to my daughter's grade school for a halloween party and parade..it was so nice to just live my life and focus on something else for a while.

Ross: I totally agree with your recommendation to get it done soon....however, I am not feeling totally comfortable with the doc I met with yesterday and want to at least afford myself the opportunity to meet with the docs at Univ of Wash..who come so highly recommended from many...God willing I at least have this time.

Nancy: I agree....totally unforgiveable to not have alerted me to this potentially fatal condition in April after the echo...I wonder who my recourse is? I have contacted the Navy Hospital's quality control dept to report the error so hopefully it won't happen to anyone else! How totally irresponsible and negligent..
Wayne: I agree changing health plans will make things so much easier for me...I still can't figure out why they didn't point this out to me in the very beginning....too bad I wasn't a Canadian....I could have the guru David Tirone do my surgery....Oh well, I trust I will find someone soon....hopefully!

I'm going to take my little one trick or treating....my back is absolutely killing me from the spinal fracture...but I'm still here, alive and kicking, and thank God have the privilege of taking my little girl trick or treathing...amazing what we take for granted before we experience something like this!

Happy Halloween to All....I'll keep you updated...I am trying to schedule a second consult with Univ of Wash...
 
I can't offer you any advice about your current situation. I know it must seen overwhelming at times.

Best of luck, my thoughts are with you.
 
Lorie,

I've been told that Svenson(sp?) is the aneurysm guru at Cleveland Clinic. You might want to confirm that and see if you can contact him directly.

Keep On Keepin' On!

'AL Capshaw'
 
Lorie,

As you know, sometimes dealing with TRICARE can be a pain. However, when it came to my surgery, it was a blessing. My surgery was performed out of state. The TRICARE rep made our travel arrangements to and from the hosptial and booked the hotel room for my wife.

Karl
 
Thanks for your well wishes Isis....it is much appreciated!

Al: Yes, I have heard that Svennson is really good...and I am hoping to be able to fly out to Cleveland soon for a consult...once I switch my insurance around I can see anyone without referrals....I have already sent all my records out.

KAJ: Wow, what was your secret when dealing with Tricare? I have Tricare Prime right now and everything has to be in-network if available. Turns out they don't give very good info and really have, in my opinion, wasted my time. I am switching to Tricare Standard...I can deal with $1000 out of pocket to have the peace of mind to be able to go where I want...especially when it comes to something like this.
I left a message today for Dr. Verrier's office to make an appt for a consult, hopefully next week. I noticed on my echo from April of this year (finally received fax copy) that the aneurysm was only 3.8 cm so obviously its growing fast and the wait and watch approach does not work for me.
Thanks to you all for your input and support...I had a great time taking my little girl trick or treating tonight and I know next year will be even better with all of this behind me!
 
Lorie just remember, echo measurements are not very accurate. Many a person has gone to surgery thinking theirs was at 5 when in reality, it turned out much larger.
 
Actually those measurements came from a CT angiogram....however, it was not the newer 64 slice machines so don't know how accurate it is. The thing that concerns me the most is that the echo in April showed the aortic aneurysm only measuring 3.8 cm...that's a lot of growth for 6 months.
The doc I consulted with put me on metroprolol 25 mg q day and there were all these warnings for side effects....dizziness, fainting, light headed, take care when operating machinery etc. and it kinda has me freaked out but my sister says that it's nothing to worry about.
I will be on the phone today trying to schedule another consult with Univ of Wash. Dr. Verrier...I hear he is really good from a couple of folks here on VR.com. Wish me luck!
 
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