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Soilman

VR.org Supporter
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2005
Messages
75
Location
New Bern, NC
Well, I just got the results from my annual checkup and they were less than desirable. Apparently the regurgitation has gotten significantly worse and my cardiologist is more concerned with that than anything else right now. My EF went from 71 to 45 since last year. I've been put on Norvask (sp??) to help control the enlargement of the heart due to the increased regurg. I go back for another echo in 6 months.
The one thing to smile about is that I've not been further restricted on my activities!

Bottom line is, I'm still in the "waiting room", but I've moved a few chairs closer to the O.R.
 
Sorry to hear your progressing towards the mountain. However, I'm a bit surprised to hear you are still waiting if you're experiencing enlargement of the heart. My activities weren't restricted either as I was asymptomatic. However, once they determined my heart chambers were enlarging from the regurg they recommended surgery (in my case a repair) asap, despite no other symptoms, to avoid the potential of permanent damage.
 
Heart valves can be replaced....one cannot replace a permanently damaged left ventricle. I know there are different schools of thought on this one, and I've always had a difficult time understanding delay of surgery in this situation.
All my best,
MrP
 
I don't think it has started enlarging just yet. I was aware that after a certain point, enlargement can cause permanent damage. My card also explained this to me. According to him, it has not reached the point where surgery is considered yet. I may try to call him for clarification.
 
I think it would be a good idea to clarify more with your cardiologist and possibly get a 2nd opinion.

My husband had his mitral valve repaired May 8 / 2006. At a routine check-up a murmur was heard. It took 2 weeks to get a cardio appt. and 2 months later he had his mitral valve repaired.
My husband had no symptoms, LV function was normal and EJ was 60%. We were told that the echo EJ is an estimate. All the numbers looked good for repair. Since he had a rutprued chordae and a 4+ regurg. there was no point of waiting. We knew the leak wasn't there for long since he had had a routine check-up the year before an no murmur was heard then, so the valve must have deteriorated rather quickly. Everybody who listened to his chest was commenting how the valve was 'gushing away'.

My husband had no other health issues and was in good shape. When the surgeon went in, he told us afterwards that his heart had started to get tired.
My husband had a fairly uneventful recovery and is thanfully doing great now (EJ 65 at 5 months post-op)
We very lucky to have a knowledgeable cardio, a skilled surgeon but most of all, I believe it was the timing of the surgery which made a great outcome possible.

I hope you get more answers, especially since your EJ has decreased. When my husband was told he needed surgery, we were naturally in dsbelief and shock but my husband and I know it was the rigth thing to do. It was doable:) , really.


All the best
astrid
 
Sorry for the unsettling news. The change in EJ does sound troubling. Did he give you any numbers on the enlargement -- current size and rate of enlargement? I know I had enlargement as a result of congenital aortic regurg for quite some time, and was monitored with echos every 6 months in the last few years before surgery. The cath before my surgery showed an enlarged aortic root of 5.3 cm, and the surgeon found it at 5.5 cm.

I concur with the others who recommend clarification from your cardio and quite possibly a second opinion.
 
WHAT is your Cardiologist waiting for?

OLD TIME thinking was to postpone surgery as long as possible. That went out of fashion at least a decade ago.

First Time Valve Replacement Surgery has a 98% success rate (1% stroke risk, 1% mortality risk). SURGEONS like to operate BEFORE there is PERMANENT Damage to the Heart Muscle and Walls that WILL NOT improve, even after surgery.

The Better your condition going into surgery, the Better the Outcome. What ROCK does your Cardiologist have his head under?

If your Cardiologist won't refer you to a Surgeon, FIND ONE YOURSELF. Let the SURGEON decide WHEN it is best to proceed. You may also want to find another Cardiologist who is 'up to date' in his training and thinking.

'AL Capshaw'
 
I want to echo the other posts saying that it's time to get a second opinion. An ejection fraction dropping to 45 should be cause for major concern and the rate that it appears to be changing is even more alarming.
 
Soilman:

I'll echo what everyone else has said: Get a 2nd opinion. Better yet, get a consult with a cardiovascular surgeon.

With an EF of 45%, surgery is a given. Your recovery will be longer if you delay getting into the OR. In 5 months, that EF could drop even further.

BTW, my husband is facing MV surgery soon due to ruptured chordae. He will have an arteriogram this week (March 15) and then we'll be interviewing surgeons in Dallas. I want him to get into surgery in better condition than I did and get a repair rather than a replacement. His EF was 70-75% on Jan. 19.

Good luck!
 
Thanks guys,

I put in a call to my cardiologist. He won't be back in his office til thursday, but I left a message with the nurse that I wanted a referal to a surgeon and a copy of all my results. Although I'm not looking forward to getting my chest split open, I'm a conservative guy. Meaning I don't like to gamble or take chances. If having surgery earlier means a better, faster recovery with less potential problems or damage, then hand me the knife and I'll sharpen it up real good.
 
An EF of 4O% to 75% is considered normal. By itself, it wouldn't cause any call for surgery.

40% for older folks, and 75% for extreme atheletes. A more conservative (and reasonable) view of ejection fractions puts normal at 45% to 60%. Most "normal" people run 50-55%. Bigger is not better, unless you are actually actively participating in extremely active sports all the time (no weekend warriors need apply).

However, if your EF was over 70% (a sign of ventricualr hypertrophy in most folks) and is now at 45%, that is very concerning. The ventricular hypertrophy (enlargement) cycle is that the enlarged muscle becomes at first more efficient (thus the atheletic-seeming 71%), then, as the overgrowth becomes encumbering, the EF spirals down, and the heart heads for congestive heart failure.

I would absolutely get a second opinion, and bring those echo results (ALL of them) with you. If it's determined that your heart is on the far side of that cycle, you risk permanent damage, even after the valve is fixed.

Best wishes,
 
Bob,

I am a rather physically active person. I've been running and participating in 5 and 10K races for the past 25 years (though I've never been a threat to actually win one). I have also lifted weights through the same time period and coached H.S. wrestling for 6 years. (I've severely toned down the weights and cut out wrestling). My Job is also fairly active, requireing me to walk through the woods, fields, pastures, etc. boring holes with a manual soil auger, so the high EF could be due to that. At pesent, I am exhibiting no symptoms and feel fine. Still, a 25 point drop is disturbing and I'd like a few more answers.
 
Soilman

GET THEE TO A CARDIO-THORACIC SURGEON!!!! GET A SECOND OPINION!!! I definitely don't like the "enlargement" issue....it sends the hair up on the back of my neck.

Evelyn
 
Alright. I talked with my cardiologist this morning. My left ventrical has begun to enlarge. I asked him to recommend a surgeon that could review my case. I have an appointment with a cardio-thorasic surgeon on April 5 at Wake Med in Raleigh NC. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again

Barry
 
I'm very glad you are going to a surgeon, I hope he is able to explain everything ans schedual surgery, if that is what is needed now
 
Good. You really don't want the left ventricle enlarging. I'm a bit surprised your cardio was willing to go 6 months more & check again. It will be interesting to hear what the surgeon says, pls share it with us.

Best Regards,
Ruth
 
With your lifestyle, you well could be atheletic enough to have had the high EF. There are a lot of people who think they're active enough to have an EF at that level, but don't really understand the level of physical dedication required to maintain that. It certainly sounds like you're one of the few exceptions, and I apologize for taking the more likely route in my reply.

It must be a real blow to you to watch the capacity of your heart dwindle, especially considering the care you have taken of it all these years. At least be cheered that the care you have taken of it should help you rebound more rapidly and fully than if you had jockeyed a desk for years.

I would ask you to be very careful in one aspect: those who are extremely fit frequently experience no symptoms that they notice, and most cardiologists are heavily weighted toward the symptomatic patient. Don't ignore anything that can be considered a symptom.

Your loss of EF may still be the downward result of an abbreviated ventricular cycle, based on your initial high EF. If you are enlarged enough to be treated with drugs for verticular hypertrophy, it would definitely make sense to look for a second opinion. It's not about avoiding the surgery at all costs. It's about picking the time when surgery becomes the greater good. Not all cardiologists are good at that (can I hear an "Amen" from the assembly?).

If your ventricle becomes too enlarged, you risk asymmetrical ventricle recovery, atypical muscle movement, leakage of other valves from distortions caused by the hypertrophy, permanent enlargement of the atria (again from distortion), persistent arrhythmias (including AFib from misshapened and enlarged atria), primary pulmonary hypertension, and other types of permanent damage.

I'm not saying you need to run to the surgeon immediately, but you need a second opinion that's not tied to this doctor or his group practice, if he has one. You are not as likely to produce symptoms. You need someone who can read between the lines.

Very best wishes,
 

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