What to choose

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spartan44

Hi all,

Im a 35 year old male that lives in Maryland. I have a aortic valve leak and have known about for 14 years. Well, it appears the time has come or coming closer to replacement. I have two cariodlogists and a surgeon that feel its time and one surgeon up at Johns Hopkins that feels I can wait. I decided to let the Cleveland Clinic be the tie breaker and will be going up there in a few weeks for tests and if they feel Im ready, I am choosing to have the replacement done there.
I m still unsure what valve to choose. Both surgeons have said the mechanical is the way to go, but they also said they would never go on Coumadin, Very nice!!
The homograft sounds great, but then I see another surgery probably by the time Im fifty.
Is Coumadin as bad as it sounds?
I want to stay as active as I can.
Thanks for your support
Dale
 
It's good that you are going to the Cleveland Clinic. Their 'valve of choice' is the Bovine Pericardial Tissue valve which I have described several times here on VR.com (see the archives). That was my first choice but unfortunately, my surgeon decided to use a St. Jude mechanical valve after seeing inside.

I've not had any problems living with Coumadin BUT, it does make further surgeries and / or invasive procedures more complicated because you will have to be weened off Coumadin and put on either Lasix or Heparin before and after other invasive procedures. Not fun, but not the end of the world.

Please read through the Coumadin Forum and Valve Selection Forum from a LOT more information on the subject. Also look up the thread "Making the Choice" under the HeartTalk Forum.

'AL'
 
Hi Dale-

Welcome to this wonderful site. Decisions, decisions, decisions--right?

These are tough ones.

Basically what you have to choose from is a mechanical valve which most probably would give you long, long service, or a tissue valve which would have to be replaced at some time, when it started to deteriorate, but would not require Coumadin, in most cases. And I say, in most cases, because there are some folks who have had to go on Coumadin even with tissue valves for one reason or another. Some of that has been temporary, and some long term.

There are also some new cutting edge valves out there which some of our members have.

You really have to do some heavy thinking about how you want to hancle it.

I can say that my husband has been on Coumadin for 25 years, and I have no idea how it got such a bad rap. You would have to have regular testing, but after a while, this becomes routine.

When younger, my husband was very active, and didn't miss too many opportunities in life. He's 72 years old now and has mellowed. He still has an old mechanical aortic valve he had implanted 25 years ago. He also has a mechanical mitral and had a repair on the mitral.

There is volumes of information on this site regarding valve selection. Take some time and go through as many threads here as possible. You will learn so much.

Best wishes to you. Please post often with lots of questions. You'll get honest answers from those who have walked the walk.
 
Thanks for the support. I guess Im still in denial about the whole thing since I am asymptomatic. I lift weights and run and just feel fine.
If I was symptomatic I would feel much more comfortable moving foward.
 
Al,
Can you tell me who your surgeon up at CCF was? Bruce Lytle will be performing mine if it is decided I need to have it now.
Dale
 
"If I was symptomatic I would feel much more comfortable moving foward." That's certainly evidence that you're not symptomatic, because if you were symptomatic, you would not be comfortable, not at all. Not being able to catch your breath is not comfortable, and it would be good to avoid that.

I just had some cysts removed while I stayed on coumadin, without any problems. It did take a while to find a surgeon who would do it that way.

Whatever decision you make about the kind of valve to get is the right decision. Even better would be to stay asymptomatic, but that may not be possible.
 
Hi Dale,
I can completely understand your situation. I was also asymptomatic and very active. It was so hard to believe that anything was really wrong. I kept thinking they had to be making a mistake. To make a long story short, I went to 3 different cardios before I found one that found out exactly what was going on. He sent me to CCF straight from Philadelphia, and I had surgery right away to repair a dissection/anuerysm of the aorta along with a mechanical valve in the aortic position. You can read my story in the story section. I had the surgery 9 months ago. I had done a lot of research before the surgery knowing I would have a valve replacement at some point in the years to come and I had decided on a mechanical because I didn't want to have surgery again, if at all possible. When I went to CCF, my cardio and surgeon there both felt that a mechanical valve would be the best choice if they were not able to repair the valve. A repair couldn't be done on the valve, so I was given a mechanical St. Jude. My lifestyle really hasn't changed, I find coumadin to be a non-issue. Whatever your decision is, just know that there is no right or wrong decision regarding valve type. It is a very personal and individual decision. Whatever decision you make will be a good one, and the right one for you. Just do as much research as you can and ask your cardio and surgeon a lot of questions. They should also be able to help you with the decision. Another thing to remember is that you may choose one type of valve, but once the surgeon get in there and looks around, that type of valve may not work the best and they may have to go with a different valve. Just something you should know.

Good Luck and Take Care!
Gail

P. S.
I also wanted to let you know that my CCF cardio was Dr. Rodriguez and my surgeon was Dr. Svensson. Dr. Svensson is very very good at what he does. He is one of the best in the world. People come from all over the world to have him do their surgeries. He specializes in aortic problems.
 
Asymtomatic

Asymtomatic

Dale
I was diagnosed in March and at 49 was pretty much asymtomatic but things changed in a hurry. My cadiologist had assured me that it was OK to take on a building a house and that surgery was a year or more away but a week and a half into the project I ended up in the ER. Too much heavy work with the upper body I guess. After this I had pronounced symtoms and became short of breath with very little exersion. I could feel myself getting weaker almost by the day. The cardio surgeon told me that if I didn't have surgery within 2 months my heart would be permenantly impacted.
My experience was that even if you feel pretty good now that can change very quickly. If you are in pretty good shape other than your heart your body will try to compensate but the heart is still being stressed.
I'm glad that you are better prepared for this than I was. It sounds like you are in a good position to act when you are ready and that you are considering all of you options.

Good Luck,
Gerry
 
All,
Thanks for the responses. I have about three weeks left before I go to the CCF, so I'm doing all kinds of research.
 
Hello Dale,

I need to make a clarification, I did NOT have my AVR surgery at CCF, but here in Alabama. I just happen to know that CCF has a high regard for the Bovine Valve (my previous bypass surgeon did his residency at CCF).

I also want to caution you to NOT overwork your heart at this stage because PERMANENT DAMAGE or SUDDEN DEATH are both realistic possibilities.

IF your aortic vavle is closing over, the heart can compensate by pumping harder. This leads to building up the heart muscle and thickening the heart walls. If this goes on too long, there can be PERMANENT DAMAGE to your heart muscle. I suspect this may have happened to me which resulted in fluid retention (that's another long story) which will definitely limit your exercise tolerance. The 'solution' is to be on Diuretics (and potassium supplements) for the REST of your Life. GET THE PICTURE?

Waiting too long for surgery and / or overstressing your heart when you have valve disease is NOT WISE. Sorry for being so blunt. Note that Cardiologists like to postpone surgery as long as possible and use medical treatment (ACE Inhibitors) to reduce internal blood pressure. Surgeons like to see their patients BEFORE Permanent Damage is done to the Heart Muscle.

Deciding on the optimum timing for surgery requires frequent monitoring (Echo and / or TEE exams). After my experience and rapid decline in the last 2 months before my surgery, I tend to support the Surgeon's philosophy that "Earlier is BETTER".

Hopefully I've given you some ideas for Questions to ask when you get to CCF. Good Luck in making your decision(s).

'AL'
 
Hi Dale,

I cannot agree with Al more. I was also fairly asymptomatic. Shortness of breath only on moderate excersize, but that has been the situation for over 20 years (dectected heart murmer/mild AI when I was 12). Now, at 41, my AI was severe, but still fairly asymptomatic. Cardilogist and surgeon saw beginings of L ventrical enalragement, and said now is the time for surgery. 5 months later, new bovine valve. (Now 4 weeks post surgery and feeling great --- HI GERRY... Gerry and I had our surgeries in the same hospital, by the same surgeon, the same week)

You'll get so many opinions on valves. My surgeon did not recommend a homograft (he is a valve specialist... does over 200 valves per year). His feeling was that with a homograft, you are limited as to the quality of the valve ( there are only so many donors out there, and my being 5'11 200 lbs, anticipated a large valve 29 mm). With with porcine and bovine, each valve is more or less prefect, as their is essentially and unlimited supply of xenografts out there.

Also, remember, you can do all the pre planning with the surgeon you want, but what it comes down to is that the surgeon will make the best deciscion for you only when he is literally holding your heart in his/her hand. We were initially planning on doing a full root reaplcement using a Toronto full root porcine valve, BUT, during surgery, he felt my aorta was in excelent shape (which was questionable based on echos) and chose to implant the bovine valve (which he also feels is superior) instead.

ALSO, the bovine valve is extimated to last 15 to 20 years. I know I'll need a redo (surgeon says his goal is to get me to 80... after that, I'm on my own), but what type of surgical techniques and valve technologies will be available then???? 20 years ago, the bovine valve was going thru it's first clinical trials, and homografts were not even being implated yet.

Just more to consider. In any case, you and your surgeon will make a good deciscion.

Best of luck,
 
Dale,

Just turned 50 and had my aortic valve replaced on July 02 in NY. Had an aortic anuerysm taken care of too I have known about my
valve (bicuspid) since 12 yrs old. Asymtomatic my entire life, right up to the BIG OP day. Agonized over valve choice, but figured if I got enough info the right choice for me, eventually, would be apparent. In the end I went with the CE Bovine. Here is a very interesting debabte between the top heart surgeons; you can see in streaming video on the web - about 35 minutes long. Cosgrove - the top heart doc at Cleveland Clinic, Oz from NY Pres Columibia and a doc from Toronoto. Listen carefully to what they say and do not say and what they infer. This video was produced by Edwards who makes the Bovine valve, but makes fine mechanical valves as well.

http://europe.edwards.com/MedicalPr...reatDebate.aspx

Rest assured there is not a bad choice. All choices are good and will result in many many years of good living. Just depends what is right for you. This should not be a pressure decision.

NOTE !! As far as I know.......................

What ever valve you choose should be the valve you get. Have not been able to find any info regarding what the surgeon may find inside you that would force him/her to do differently than what was agreed upon in advance with you.


Daniel
 
Dale--

I've only been on this forum a week; there are some great people on here.

I'm your age--had my aortic valve replaced last December. I, too, had always been asymptomatic--so much so that I didn't even KNOW I had a bicuspid valve until I got infective endocarditis--in other words, REALLY sick, during which illness my valve was destroyed, which led to the replacement. My doctors have said, based on what they saw while they were in there, that the valve was also probably mild to moderately stenosed (narrowed), but again, I have a hard time believing that since I was always very athletic--big bike rider, bodybuilder, etc., and never noticed much shortness of breath or any of the usual symptoms. Maybe since I had always had it I was just used to it, I don't know. (I will say that what the doctors predicted is true--I might not have had any concrete "symptoms" of heart trouble before, but now, seven months post-op, I feel 1000 times better--I have more energy than ever before, I feel like Superman compared to the way I've always felt.

I had the Ross Procedure. They replaced my diseased aortic valve with my own healthy pulmonic valve, (structurally, nearly identical to the aortic), and replaced my pulmonic valve with a human cadaver homograft.

Homografts are known to last longer in the pulmonic position than the aortic. Apparently, the best known replacement for an aortic valve is another living tissue valve, which is why your pulmonic apparently makes a good replacement. My surgeon put it this way: Tissue valves wear out soonest, mechanical valves last forever, Ross replacements probably fall somewhere in the middle. Upsides are, decent length of time before re-operation (my surgeon threw around numbers like 20-25 years, vs. 10-15 for tissue valves) and no coumadin. (Which, as people will tell you , for most people isn't a problem--but if you're athletic at all apparently there are all sorts of contraindications to what you can participate in--for risk of bleeding, external and internal. I wouldn't know, cos I'm not on it...) Downsides are, it's a longer, more complicated procedure, you need a surgeon that's got a lot of experience doing it, it turns a single valve replacement into a double valve operation; and down the road, truth is, you've got two valves that might need replacing later. Tho, any data I've been able to dig up suggests the autograft in the aortic position will last; it's the homograft in your pulmonic that might need to be replaced. This still isn't a bad situation to be in--when your aortic valve goes, you need a new one, no questions asked. There are case histories of patients with stenosed, insufficient, or MISSING pulmonic valves living normal lives. (i.e. if that valve fails, it's not as big a deal...) When my surgeon put it to me that way, there was no question--I didn't want an aortic tissue valve that would definitely need replacing, vs. my own re-implanted neo-aortic valve that would probably be ok with the cadaver implant on the pulmonic side that isn't as big a catastrophe if it fails.

I've all but decided I'll never be able to go balls-out full-throttle on the weightlifting again (so says my cardiologist), a fact I'm getting used to, but I have every intention of completing my 575 mile bike ride next summer and the Ironman Triathlon in Honolulu after that. My doctors say these are not unreasonable goals, with my Ross homograft, but that I probably wouldn't be able to consider it if I had a mechanical valve/coumadin.

I've seen lots of Ross naysayers--people who had one and needed re-operation sooner than expected, etc. To tell the truth--the surgery was a SNAP. Couple of days on heavy drugs then released. Sure, there's a couple of months of recovery and all that, but it didn't bother me. If I need another surgery, all that means to me is another six months off work to relax. I was so sick in the hospital I didn't have time to weigh all the options--but in retrospect, even in light of all my research since, I'm glad I got the Ross Procedure. In someone our age, who hopes to maintain any semblance of an athletic life, it's the only thing that makes sense to me. Had I had all of this information, I would have decided on the Ross myself, anyway. It's like this--you get one shot at a Ross--see if it works. If it does, you get a possible 25 years before re-operation, free of anticoagulation worries and the prospect of resuming your previous athletic lifestyle. If, later, it turns ot not to last that long and you end up needing, say, a mechanical put in, you're not out anything (much).

I know there are people on here who had a Ross and didn't have good results but it surprises me that nobody has mentioned that for a 35 year old asymptomatic patient who is a weightlifter and otherwise athletic, the Ross Procedure was practically TAILOR MADE for patients like you...

I'd say ask your doctor about it, at the very least, and see what he says.

Scott(y), waiting for the anti-Ross backlash now, unless this forum is significantly different than the others I'm on...
 
Makes sense to me Scotty.

IMHO, I believe that most people who choose, make their decision based on what set of negatives they can best live with, given that ALL valves have their own particular set of positives and negatives.

Your comment about finding NO reason a surgeon would change from what was agreed upon caught my eye since mine DID. We had originally agreed upon a CE Bovine Pericardial Valve but when I came to, he told me he placed a St. Jude Mechanical inside instead. To top it off, he never even consulted my family when he made that unilateral decision. He just did it. I'd really like to know what he saw to prompt that decision!

'AL'
 
'AL' sez: >>To top it off, he never even consulted my family when he made that unilateral decision. He just did it. I'd really like to know what he saw to prompt that decision!<<

Did you get a copy of your operative report? Mine was fascinating--it reads like an auto mechanic's manual. Apparently I have 26mm semilunar valves. Who knew? :) (Thought they would have been bigger cos I used to be really, really overweight) Lots of detailed information about exactly what they found and what exactly they did. Got it when I requested a copy of my whole medical file (you're entitled, by law, you know)

That might shed some insight on the situation, why he did what he did, etc.

Scott(y), noting that with 554 posts you're obviously not an amateur and probably already know all this but, clicking "send" anyway... :)
 
Scott(y),
Thanks for your very informative description of the Ross procedure, the clearest presentation I've seen. I was never offered one, don't know if I would have wanted one, but I'm curious all the same.
I agree with your description of the surgical report as an auto mechanic's manual -- quite interesting.
Thanks.
 
Surgeon's Choice

Surgeon's Choice

In my humble opinion...

If the surgeon ends up putting a valve in that was not discussed, you (we, I, the patient) probably did not ask all the right questions. For example, did everybody ask how many valves their surgeon does a year? Do they average, 50, 100, 200? Makes a difference.

My surgeon said I was one of the most prepared patients he met. I asked all the neccesary questions, and what type of valve was going to be implanted, and for waht reasons would they not go with it, and then what would the choice be.

Here is the rundown of what will be implanted. (I also have a dilated aortic root which may need to be replaced)

1) St. Judes porcine Toronto full root valve (part of clincal study)...... if my pulmonary valve needs to be replaced (unlikely by possible) I can't be part of the study and we will go with

2) Medtronics porcine freestyle full root valve.... freestyle only goes up to 27 mm, so if my valve size is larger than that we go with

3) Carbomedics Carbo-Seal® Valsalva Ascending
Aortic Prosthesis in case my aortic diameter is too large.


(from http://www.valvereplacement.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=39600#post39600 )

I thought I knew everything.... Except I never asked one specific question. Based on echos, it seemed as if I had an enlarged aortic root and would need a root replacement which is why we were going for the full root stentless porcine valve (although one surgeon thought the enlarged root was an artifact caused by the turbulance of blood for the AI).

BUT, I never asked what would he do IF it turned out that my root was OK. Guess what... My root was fine during surgical evaluation. Implanted the CE bovine valve instead. Why? He felt it is superior to the porcine valves (Cleveland Clinic agrees) and feels it is easier to explant for the redo 15-20 years from now.

I was thrilled to get the CE bovine. Surgery was better than expected. I remember when I first met my surgeon he said, "My goal is to get you to 80, after that , your on your own" (I'm 41). I like that my surgeon is looking at where am I going to be 15-20 years from now.

Hopes this helps (and hope I didn't start any trouble);)
 
Although Al,

I can't understand why a surgeon would implant a mechanical valve if it is understood the patient wants a tissue valve.

(exception being requiring a larger valve size than biologically available... but St. Judes does not make large valves nothing above 27 mm)

Time to ask your surgeon
 

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