What do you guys think about this?

[Rain]

I just read Marty's thread about the Vermont Medical school not being able to ?get coordination or linearity with the central lab?.
That sounds like what is happening to me! This last February I realized I had a problem with my protime machine. The machine was saying I was in range, but my body was telling me I wasn?t. I had the red spots, bruising, all those signs you learn to recognize as a high INR. That?s when I began comparisons with the lab. It continues to read from .3 to as much as 1.5 below the lab readings. When I first got the machine in October of 2000 I tested against the same lab I?m testing against now and got these comparisons.... 10-22-00 Protime 2.12 Lab 1.7 I was freaked out about that at the time, but the Protime people told me anything under .5 was acceptable and the difference there was only .42.... soooooooo about three months later I did another comparison 1-19-00 Protime 2.31 Lab 2.54 I was delighted and had the utmost confidence in my machine...... Until Feb. of this year!

The Protime people want me to do a correlation with the lab to establish a bias. Then I would change my range to fit the reading my machine is giving me. I?m having a bit of a hard time here, because my husband seems to agree with the protime people that that should work just fine. Well my problem is... if the machine isn?t consistently reading the same amount different from the lab... How can I rely on a bias?! This is my readings since I started comparing the machine to the lab...

2-14-03 Protime 4.1 Lab 5.1 = off by -1.0
2-20-03 Protime 2.8 Lab 3.6 = off by -.80
3-1-03 Protime 2.6 Lab 2.93 = off by -.33
3-11-03 Protime 3.7 Lab 4.4 = off by -.70
3-17-03 Protime 4.4 Lab 5.91 = off by -1.51
3-25-03 Protime 2.9 the next day I tested on the machine
3-26-03 Lab 3.35 = off by -.45
4-2-03 Protime 2.5 Lab 3.6 = off by -1.1
4-11-03 Protime 3.0 Lab 3.98 = off by -.98

I realize there are many things that can effect your readings. I do the tests exactly right...always have my blood in the cup on time, never slice my finger before it says to, finger is always clean and dry, the cuvette is always out of the fridg for at least 30 mins... all those things. And I always make sure they fill the tube all the way up at the hospital, make sure they don't shake it... they do the tests right away... it's not sitting around or being transported anywhere. I also realize that a difference in the two testing devices is to be expected... but wouldn't you think they would be somewhat 'consistently' different? Ho humm... its exhausting just thinking about it. I just want my reliable machine back!!

I know most of you are happy protime users, but I trust your opinions none the less. I would like to know if you guys think that if I did twenty comparisons with the lab, that they (protime people) could come up with a ?bias? that I could adjust my INR range to? I?m having a hard time thinking it could be something I could rely on. I don?t want to give Protime a bad name ... that?s why I deleted the other thread... but I want to know what you guys think about this.

And Michele I?ve got a question for you.... I was told from the beginning that for $350.00 I could get my machine fixed and upgraded at the same time. My husband talked to Sue Barrett.. he seems to think that the $350.00 will only get you the upgrade, but will not necessarily guarantee the machine is fixed?! When I talked to the lab tech, he told me it would guarantee a fix. Ms. Barrett has apparently been out of her office all week... I?m hoping you or someone can answer this question for me. I?m much more concerned about the ?fix? than the upgrade!

 

[Marty]

Protime Problems

Protime Problems

Rain, I'm sorry I don't have a ready answer to the problems you note. Maybe Al can help. If not I would Email this data to Dr. Ansell in Boston. I have not tested my coaguchek against the lab in some time. I guess I do not want to get confused. The coaguchek is also non-linear above INR 4 and below 2. However in my case the coaguchek readings were higher than the lab at the upper levels and lower at the lower levels and this was verified by Roche as inherent in the coaguchek system and Dr. Ansell said not to worry and I havn't.

HELP AL!!!

!

 

[Rain]

I appreciate your help everyone.

I appreciate your help everyone.

Thank you, Marty. I appreciate it! I haven?t heard from Al.. he?s probably busy. Thanks to everyone who sent me P Ms I?ve decided to follow through with the correlation and try to keep my INR closer to 3.0 than 3.5 and see how it turns out. I?d really just like to have the confidence in my machine again... I?m almost wishing I?d have never compared it to the lab!!

Once I get more comparisons I would be interested in sending the data to Dr. Ansel and getting his opinion. Would you happen to have his e-mail address Marty? You can e-mail it to me if you don't want to post it here. My e-mail address is [email protected] Thanks again.

 

[LUVMyBirman]

Hi Rain,

I am so sorry. How aggravating.

My two cents...QAS needs to help you out. I don't want to start trouble here but I feel you should receive an adequate repair or replacement on your unit. This is nothing to play around with. Tested my Coaguchek against the lab last week. Home 3.2, lab 3.4. Play it safe girl. Have a lab draw until you are comfortable.

Take care and keep us posted.

 

[ShezaGirlie]

Rain...

Rain...

How frustrating to put your trust in a machine and a company and then feel abandoned. It seems strange to me that all the people asking how to BUY a ProTime machine get an immediate response on this forum and then you're having all these problems and receive no response. Customer service?? Hmmm?? Where 'tis?

The one time I had a problem (batteries wouldn't hold a charge, I think?) with my CoaguChek (I've had one for almost 4 years) Roche had a brand spanking new one [FREE] on my doorstep within 24 hours with NO questions asked! Even said I could send the old one back at my convenience...which I did.

According to Bonnie's post on another thread - the ProTime cost around $2,000, the tests are $12 each and the machine has a one year warranty. And what's this about an upgrade for $350?? You ProTime folks have a lot of money invested...

Well, the CoaguChek has a 5 year warranty and costs about HALF of what a ProTime costs with the strips costing just $6.00. And the customer service is excellent! Never heard anything about an 'upgrade' either... And like Gina's machine, mine is always just right there with the Lab/Labs I've used.

Sure hope you get your problem resolved PDQ as it's your life that's on the line. Meanwhile, please note Gina's suggestion to use a Lab for your INR tests until the problem is resolved by QAS and the company rep. Don't take any chances Rain.

 

[QAS]

I've deleted this post, as it has caused too much trouble. I know this is a sensitive subject, and I think it would be better to discuss this privately, so noone gets upset. Sorry if anyone was upset!

Lance

 

[Michele]

ProTime

ProTime

Dear ShezaGirlie,

Regarding your post on ProTime customer service. Sorry for the delay in responding. I do check these posts daily unfortunately not every second of every day. We pride ourselves on customer service. We have nurses here on staff that can answer any questions, we have 24-hour technical support for people who are having problems with their monitor. If tech support feels there is a problem with the monitor they will start a report and get the matter resolved.

If anyone is having any problems they can call me directly at 1-800-298-4515 x 2616 or Lance at x 2865 we will be more than happy to assist you in your needs.

Dear Rain,

Have you contacted us directly or did you contact the manufacturer for your answers?

Regarding the $350 that is from the manufacturer. If down the road say 5 or 6 years you would have to replace the ni-cad battery the manufacturer will charge you $350 - we usually provide you with a loaner monitor. The monitor is sent back to the manufacturer they replace the battery, upgrade your insides to the current version of software and then return it to you with an additional year of warranty. Remember we are a distributor not a manufacturer.

 

[LUVMyBirman]

QAS:
"How much value do customers place on us doing all of the insurance work, up front? Number two, buy a CoaguChek at list price, pay for training, pay for strips, pay for controls, and FILE YOUR OWN INSURANCE"

End users:

How can you put a price on accuracy and your life?
It is worth every last penny to be accurate when it comes to my INR! If I could not afford my supplies from Roche..... I would go to the lab.

All I see is a good song and dance going. And you know......it's not the first time either! BTW, I received training in my HOME by Roche from a "qaulified nurse".

 

[ShezaGirlie]

Justa brief reply...

Justa brief reply...

Lance -- I'm not going to refute every statement you have made except for one which was directed at me personally. That being you said, " I just don't like to see people that have never talked to us say negative things."

If if would be possible for you to check the records of 'prospective clients' of Home Test Medical located in Orlando, FL [a division of QAS] you will find I contacted the company regarding the prospective purchase of a ProTime Machine in December, 1999.

Now Lance, naturally I don't recall the name of the person to whom I spoke, but I do recall that I was faxed a critique sheet by Home Test Medical with the pros and cons of both the CoaguChek and ProTime machines - side by side. Well, I don't guess I have to tell you that the CoaguChek came across as a piece of junk, do I?

I also received the promotional packet sent out by Home Test Medical in those days. Ya know, knowing me -- I've still got all that stuff in a file somewhere...packrat, I am..

Michelle -- Thank you for your noble attempt to help one of our vr.com members. Maybe Rain can get this problem rectified with your help in a timely manner.

 

[Marty]

Coaguchek Guarantee

Coaguchek Guarantee

Lance, When I got my Coaguchek for $1200. They promised a refund if they couldn't get Medicare to pay. Well after two years of correspondence and big legal fees for Roche, Medicare decided I better go to a lab and not self test. Roche sent me a check for $1200 dollars. I asked them if I had to send the machine back to them. They said no, keep it. My strips are $6.00 apiece and you only need a small drop of capillary blood on the strip. I'm ready to purchase a new Coaguchek after over four years but mine still works perfectly. Roche also has a 24/7 helpline and promptly sends all supplies.The one drawback to Roche and the reason I have recommended Protime to many folks is Roche is now primarily interested in marketing to doctors offices and clinics. When they sold to individuals they sent a trainer to your home and the training cost Roche over $400. I'm not sure exactly where they stand on this now. Is there any way that a good group like QAS could get a franchise to sell Coaguchek for Roche?
That might be the best of both worlds.











































41200

 

[Marty]

Re Roche and Coaguchek

Re Roche and Coaguchek

I just talked to a friend at Roche and he said they have never stopped selling to individual lay people but theyhave spun off this business to a group responsible for application, training, etc.
To obtain information about how to get a Coaguchek call this voice mail number and they will send you all the paperwork. You will of course need a prescription from your doctor.

1-800-428-5076, ext.7748

 

[Michele]

Phil,

I found you in our system. If you would please update me on your email address (privately of course) we have been trying to reach you by email. Perhaps we have your wrong email address. You can contact me at [email protected] if you wish.

 

[Michele]

They are both good monitors. There are differences between the two and it's up to you what works best for you. What we have learned from our customers is that Roche is only willing to do cash sales and they will not do any insurance work for you. If a person needs insurance work done Roche may refer them to us. Also, for training for the Coaguchek you may have to travel a distance.

Of course the decision is yours as to what monitor you want to buy. If anyone wants to discuss this privately they may reach me at 1-800-298-4515 x 2616 or [email protected].

 

[Michele]

Dear ShezaGirlie,

I'm here to help anyone anyway I can. If someone is having problems we need to get it resolved.

That piece of information that was sent to you about the Coaguchek vs. the ProTime was a piece of literature that the manufacturer put together comparing the two machines. It is a very competitive industry and they were not "bashing" they were just stating the benefits of one system over the other. You will find that in every business in America.

Sorry we did not earn your business. But I am truly impressed that you still have our information in your filing cabinet.

 

[Rain]

'adjusting' my INR range down scares me.. $350.00 won't guarantee a fix. What to do?

'adjusting' my INR range down scares me.. $350.00 won't guarantee a fix. What to do?

Thank you Gina, Janie, Marty, Phil, Lance & Michele.

It has been a struggle... and I?m getting sick and tired of getting venous draws AND finger sticks at the same time!! I have stopped testing as often as I did, because I dread doing it so much.

Michelle I talked to an RN named Sue Barrett. A very nice, friendly lady. The only problem is... she thinks we can do twenty tests and then come up with a ?bias?.

I don?t see how I can trust a bias when the numbers are not consistently different. I realize the higher the numbers the more you expect it to be off... so I?m going to intentionally stay at a lower level and test then. But even still look below at the numbers .... even when my protime was 2.8 it was off by -.8 then when my protime was 2.6 it was off by -.33 and another time it was 2.5 and off by 1.1.... you would think those comparisons would be closer. I also understand the argument that the reading doesn?t matter if it doesn?t require a change in dosage.... and that it could be the labs fault, yada, yada, yada... I?m really trying to convince myself the monitor is okay... but its not working!!

Mrs. Barrett told me that my INR would be ?adjusted down? to fit where the machine is testing, after the correlation is complete. Well...... that tells me even the manufacturer knows the machine is testing wrong... other wise, why would I be monkeying around with my INR? My cardiologist wants it between 2.5 - 3.5.... there?s no question there.

So it seems like the best thing to do would be spend the $350.00 and get the ?fix? right? No, she said that won?t guarantee a ?fix?!! So where does that leave me?! What should I do?! The monitor has done less than one hundred tests. I'll test it against a different lab if you guys want.... But Mrs. Barrett said she wanted all the tests against the same lab I've been using.

I?ll call Lance in the morning and see what he thinks about the whole situation. I?m not trying to cause you guys any trouble... it?s just like Gina and Janie said... it IS my life we?re dealing with here. I have a nine year old daughter to raise! I have a kid graduating from college in May, another one will be graduating year after next..... I wanna be there!! I have things to do!! I?m not ready to die, because I adjusted my INR to fit the readings of a machine that isn?t reading right.. Is there any way I could send it to you and have you guys test it?

2-14-03 Protime 4.1 Lab 5.1 = off by -1.0
2-20-03 Protime 2.8 Lab 3.6 = off by -.80
3-1-03 Protime 2.6 Lab 2.93 = off by -.33
3-11-03 Protime 3.7 Lab 4.4 = off by -.70
3-17-03 Protime 4.4 Lab 5.91 = off by -1.51
3-25-03 Protime 2.9 the next day I tested on the machine
3-26-03 Lab 3.35 = off by -.45
4-2-03 Protime 2.5 Lab 3.6 = off by -1.1
4-11-03 Protime 3.0 Lab 3.98 = off by -.98

 

[Zipper]

What a puzzle!!!!

What a puzzle!!!!

Hi Rain,

I been reading and thinking...hmmm...are there any other variables going on....like...a different Lab tech each time? Each Lab tech might vary in their method? Yikes...that's all I can think of now.

I had to buy my own unit so I still go to the Lab every 4-6 weeks and so far my results remain close. I do have the same Lab tech each time and do testing the same time of day each time.

After purchasing the unit out of pocket, I'd sure be unhappy if I had to plunk out another $350.00 after a year or so of use!!!!! If that were to happen I think I'd purchase the competitors product and do the insurance paper work myself and skip the training, if possible !!!

I'm going to my Lab tomorrow morning and will home test immediately following to see if everything is still as close as I have thought it to be.

Good Luck! I sure hope you find a solution SOON.

Zipper/Joan

 

[Michele]

ProTime

ProTime

Rain,

Give Lance or I a call today - I think we have come up with a solution on your update of the monitor. I am going to take your last post to one of our nurses on staff and see if she can offer any more feedback or solutions for you. Our number again is 1-800-298-4515 x 2616 is me or 2865 is Lance. Hope to talk to you soon!

 

[Michele]

ProTime

ProTime

Hi All,

I think I should explain why I have to be so vague on these forums. Things have changed since the old days. There are new HIPPA rules that we now have to abide by to protect an individual's privacy. We cannot disclose any personal information on the internet. That's why I encourage each and every one who has personal issues to be resolved to give us a call.

 

[QAS]

There has been a debate over these monitors vs. lab results ever
since the FDA approved them. If these machine's were not accurate, do you think Medicare would of approved them for the 2 million people taking Coumadin over the age of 65? Lab's are not error proof, and this is never an exact science, regardless of which monitor you use.

Lance

 

[Rain]

Lance is the man.

Lance is the man.

Hello Everyone,

I think I talked to half the staff at QAS this morning. They really are wonderful people. Each of them told me how accurate the machine is. How many different tests the machine does before every INR reading. But then who?s to say that?s not the part that?s screwed up? YIKES! Anyway, my cardiologist wrote me a prescription for an ?upgrade? or ?replacement? when I seen him last. Sooooo.... we?re gonna try that first.

I just wish it would all go away. Lance promised me it would!! He told me one way or the other he would make it work.

I believe him, 'cause if he doesn?t I?ll send Shezagirlie down there to ?plumb him up?!! lol

I?ll let you guys know how it all turns out. I really do appreciate all your common sense answers and replies. And the people who sent me private messages too... thanks. You guys are the best!!

You too, Lance!! And Sue and Michele and Brian!! Thank you! I?m sorry you have to put up with people like me.... its just that my INR isn?t as stable as most people?s. Never mind... we already talked about all of that... so all I have to say is... Thank you, for taking the extra steps to make sure I have a reliable machine.