Thinned blood or blood thinners and body temp?

[almost_hectic]

Okay, I'm originally from Chicago, moved to Florida bout three years ago. The saying about people who have lived here long enough is that they adjust to the hot weather because their blood "has thinned out" and that why they're able to tolerate the heat and even set the thermostat much higher than most peopl care for because they're more comfortable at a higher temp now.

I always thought this was a figure of speech and not any physical change. But since I started on Coumadin after surgery and have actually "thinner blood" it feels similar kinda... It's like my new normal comfort zone is a degree or two higher and below that I'm freezing! At home I have to set the AC higher or the house is cold enough to give me chills. Same if I go somewhere, it always feels cold like they have the air conditioning blasted!

Are theses actual results of thinned blood? I thought maybe just a side effect of recovering from surgery? Only part of my thinking that doesn't fit is I'm hot when I sleep, actually not even hot but my head sweats and I get a damp pillow. Originally I thought this was a side effect of pain meds cuz they seemed to make me feel real flush and warm about an hour after a dose but I'm off pain meds now. Woke up tonight to they damp floppy pillow and decided to take my temperature and it was almost perfect at 98.7 so I can't hardly call that a fever.

Are my body's systems still just a tad out of whack from surgery at just over a month from surgery? Are they side effects to blood thinners? Will this go away?... Soon hopefully? Anyone else experience similar?

 

[pellicle]

Firstly if you wish to understand this stop thinking in simplifications which are really "dumbing downs". It removes intelligence from the factors.

Anticoagulants do not thin the blood in any way
Body temperature does not alter with ambient temperature in any significant way

What changes most is metabolism

Your body will always attempt to reach an equilibrium.

So during readjustment there will be changes. When things settle out there may be differences which persist. For example if you move to Finland and its -20 would will eat more than in Florida with out gaining weight. Because its colder your body will burn more energy to maintain that exact body temperature.

There is no way to predict these changes, instead just measure, track and calculate what is needed to get the result needed.

Graphs are your friends in this task.

 

[almost_hectic]

Firstly if you wish to understand this stop thinking in simplifications which are really "dumbing downs". It removes intelligence from the factors.

Anticoagulants do not thin the blood in any way
Body temperature does not alter with ambient temperature in any significant way

What changes most is metabolism

Your body will always attempt to reach an equilibrium.

So during readjustment there will be changes. When things settle out there may be differences which persist. For example if you move to Finland and its -20 would will eat more than in Florida with out gaining weight. Because its colder your body will burn more energy to maintain that exact body temperature.

There is no way to predict these changes, instead just measure, track and calculate what is needed to get the result needed.

Graphs are your friends in this task.

Sorry, I often post late at night because I dont sleep well and its something to pass the time. So maybe Im not thinking clearly or being too conversational and people misinterpret my meaning. I did not mean to suggest that my body temperature was actually fluctuating, but my perceived temperature or comfort level. Feeling hot or feeling cold, not my body temp going up or down.

Im just trying to find a connection... is this a factor of recovering from surgery, medication side effect, or something else entirely? I dont know.

pellicle you seem to have a lot of great knowledge. However this isnt the first time youve responded to one of my posts with a slightly negative or judgmental tone to your comments. If for some reason what I post sounds "dumb" or doesnt make sense to you, or you dont like what you read, you are in no way obligated to comment.

 

[dick0236]

I'm sure Pellicle did not intend to infer you are "dumb". Medical professionals(docs) often refer to the anti-coagulant warfarin as a "blood thinner". I have challenged my own docs about this and their response is always "people understand blood thinner better than anti-coagulant".......hence they "dumb down" their explanation of warfarin by incorrectly calling it a blood thinner......which it is not. I think this does a dis-service to the patient and may even contribute to some of the "horror stories" about warfarin misuse.

Personally, I handle a Kenucky winter better than a humid summer......that seems to go against the "thin blood" theory. I really don't think warfarin use has much to do with body comfort in hot/cold weather.....but I may be wrong.

 

[Tank]

Hectic, I to often get chills when others around me are functioning ok. I remember after my first surgery my body temp for whatever reason dropped down to around95.6 to 96.6 whenever it was checked at the hospital or clinic. As for sweating, I remember waking up some nights with sweat running off me like water. The sweating improved with time but the body temp never got better. Now after my 2nd surgery my body temp is more back to normal. Not looking forward to this winter as the temps often reach 40 below and colder at times, that my friend is AC at its best. Thanx, Tank.

 

[pellicle]

Hi

pellicle you seem to have a lot of great knowledge. However this isnt the first time youve responded to one of my posts with a slightly negative or judgmental tone to your comments. If for some reason what I post sounds "dumb" or doesnt make sense to you, or you dont like what you read, you are in no way obligated to comment.

actually I sometimes post late at night too and may be tired after a hard day at work. I'm also not paid to be a smiling face, but I do go out of my way to try to help. More than most people actually do.

So I'm sorry you've taken the view that you can infer what I feel from simple ASCII text which has no inflections, no voice, no facial expression ... It is widely known that its a fraught media for communications. I was in no way attempting to call you dumb, but there is a term "dumbing down" which I would have thought you'd know. My mistake if you didn't know this expression. I was talking about dumbing down the concept failing.

By intelligence I meant "information about your objective" ... I have a good many military friends too and I had just been talking to one about failures in interpreting intelligence in battles.

So I'm guessing you mis-read my brief post.

Also I attempt to be brief (after many criticisms and hate posts I have had here for being too verbose) and I guess that for some that comes across as being rude. Its not my intention.

What I was trying to say (and have said so often here) is that calling them blood thinners while common is just plain wrong. It leads to mistaken extrapolations (guesses on outcome) every time. Its like the simplifications (aka dumbing down) of stuff in the news.

The subject is quite difficult to answer simply and I find it frustrating going to great lengths to explain things (which I even on occasion email friends of mine who are medical professionals {I'm a biology trained one} to check my facts) which are frequently ignored or not read properly. I do go to great lengths to correct the simplifications into new ones (thus my metabolism thing) but knowing what level to pitch to is difficult. Especially since noone ever engages in discussion on the points so I'm frequently left wondering if I should just "pat people on the head" and say "it'll be fine" or if they actually seek knowledge.

I see that you too have completely failed to engage with my reply. You have not asked "what do you mean by..." and just gone straight into emotional reaction to be angry at me. There are actually quite a few answers to your question in that pithy answer and I'm happy to explain them if you wish to.

I did not spoon feed you because I indeed assumed the opposite, that you weren't dumb.

I will take your advice and cease answering your questions from now on.

 

[pellicle]

However this isnt the first time youve responded to one of my posts with a slightly negative or judgmental tone to your comments.

lastly I wish (on reflection) to add this point:

there seems (to me) to be an increasingly large "me-centric" almost "self entitled" attitude here on this site. Many posters are anxious (understandably) and focused on themselves. The reactions to answers seems to reflect that the answerers should be smiling happy talking heads like on the TV news. There seems to be no concept that we who answer are all patients too. We have our own daily anxieties and stresses. Sometimes we are not happy, sometimes we have troubles which the askers of questions could not even know about.

I've personally been though hell and I'm not entirely sure I'm out the gate yet ... some recognition that we are all in the same boat here (heart valve patients) from the askers of questions , some recognition that we are not like the "paid to smile at the counter" staff and we are (perhaps like you) also anxious, upset, and stressed would be a relief.

As a kid I was taught that people who are helping you with big smiles may indeed be helping themselves, but the grumpy helpers may actually be genuine. I was also taught that lies are often sugar coated and that the truth may not taste good - personally I've always preferred the bitter truth to a smiling sycophant

PC is ruining communication with honest people.

just my thoughts

 

[almost_hectic]

If if have misunderstood you in the past Pellicle, I apologize whole heartedly. It seems we've both confused the others remarks. You have in no way angered me, something just seemed amiss and I did not wish to ignore it.

I do in fact come here very specifically for the very positive perspective, understanding and support of the members. Anything that's not positive I simply have no interest in, I can get that anywhere. It's an amazing thing to be able to share here with others and be in the company of people who unlike friends or family actually know what you're going through. You have always provided an additional complement to that with your added knowledge. If you choose to no longer do that where I am involved that is entirely your choice. That's all I wanted to point out, that you can choose not to if you wish.

 

[almost_hectic]

Hectic, I to often get chills when others around me are functioning ok. I remember after my first surgery my body temp for whatever reason dropped down to around95.6 to 96.6 whenever it was checked at the hospital or clinic. As for sweating, I remember waking up some nights with sweat running off me like water. The sweating improved with time but the body temp never got better. Now after my 2nd surgery my body temp is more back to normal. Not looking forward to this winter as the temps often reach 40 below and colder at times, that my friend is AC at its best. Thanx, Tank.

Glad to hear it. I suppose given the choice I'd rather have the slight chill than waking up sweaty. There's only one kind of sweaty I like in bed if you know what I mean and this ain't it! I assumed it was just a part of recovery but didn't know what to make of it still persisting at around 5 weeks postoperative. Encouraged to hear it gets better given time. Last thing I want is something to be concerned of, but having checked my temperature after waking up like this and finding no fever it just sort of puzzles me.

Oh and believe it or not Tank, from living in Florida I actually miss the cold of winter. But snow most of all. I used to be a hardcore snowmobiles for 35 years before moving to the subtropics.

 

[cldlhd]

lastly I wish (on reflection) to add this point:

there seems (to me) to be an increasingly large "me-centric" almost "self entitled" attitude here on this site. Many posters are anxious (understandably) and focused on themselves. The reactions to answers seems to reflect that the answerers should be smiling happy talking heads like on the TV news. There seems to be no concept that we who answer are all patients too. We have our own daily anxieties and stresses. Sometimes we are not happy, sometimes we have troubles which the askers of questions could not even know about.

I've personally been though hell and I'm not entirely sure I'm out the gate yet ... some recognition that we are all in the same boat here (heart valve patients) from the askers of questions , some recognition that we are not like the "paid to smile at the counter" staff and we are (perhaps like you) also anxious, upset, and stressed would be a relief.

As a kid I was taught that people who are helping you with big smiles may indeed be helping themselves, but the grumpy helpers may actually be genuine. I was also taught that lies are often sugar coated and that the truth may not taste good - personally I've always preferred the bitter truth to a smiling sycophant

PC is ruining communication with honest people.

just my thoughts

Sorry for going off topic but I've noticed, at least at my work, that smiling sycophants seem to do a lot better than truth tellers . Just tell the boss what he wants to hear, the sun shines out his arse every morning.
Having said that I think different people come out here for different things. Some more for knowledge and some for reassurance. I admit I was looking for both. If I had to put a number on it I'd say 70/30 towards knowledge.

 

[pellicle]

Hi

If if have misunderstood you in the past Pellicle, I apologize whole heartedly.... something just seemed amiss and I did not wish to ignore it.

fully accepted, and I'm also sorry for letting this get under my skin. I wish I could return to a previous life where I had a thick skin, but it seems such is not the case for me.

I know well how to blend in with spoken communications but as yet I don't know how to do it well with written stuff. I try to balance succinct VS informative and conversational VS academic but (especially given the cultural diversity which exists here) often fail,

I would only ask that if something seems "amis" to ask for clarifications before stepping up to irony / sarcasm and assumptions.

I have been raised (since early childhood) to take a questioning approach to "facts" and to support my position with evidence. Its hard to shake that after 2 degrees and a research masters. Moreso when I fully agree with that and am frustrated by misinformation.

Anyway, with respect to temp and warfarin I've been out hunting moose in Finland where you sit on your arse in early Autumn in deep snow without moving, without making a sound waiting to see if the dogs drove the moose towards you. Snow crystals happy to remain on the rifle and cheap plastics snap

... I also enjoy XC skiing and am out in -15C (about 5F) and have not ever felt any different (colder) to life before warfarin.

Metabolism is the key. I do believe that our metabolism alters in the months after surgery and focuses on rebuilding the tissues of the body damaged by the trauma. I felt cold in hospital and for a few weeks after it, even though it was mid summer and 38C.

Lastly misunderstandings happen ... and its the mark of good men (that being humans, not males) that we can move past them and build better relationships upon them. It is how we solve misunderstandings from which we create understandings.

Best Wishes

 

[pellicle]

Sorry for going off topic but I've noticed, at least at my work, that smiling sycophants seem to do a lot better than truth tellers . Just tell the boss what he wants to hear, the sun shines out his arse every morning..

yeah, I work at a large university ... I see that all the time. I'm stubborn ... I say what I think, I get the job done well. Its why after nearly (on and off) 20 years since I first started with them I'm 1) still doing contracts here 2) still lower level.

Some of my managers tell me that honey attracts more flies than vinegar ... I usually answer "so does bullshit".

 

[Agian]

Sorry for going off topic but I've noticed, at least at my work, that smiling sycophants seem to do a lot better than truth tellers .

With you 100%!!! The smiling ******* sycophants, aren't they pathetic creatures?

 

[cldlhd]

Yes they are,but some of them mean well I guess.

 

[Agian]

Yes they are,but some of them mean well I guess.

Not the ones I'm thinking of.

 

[pellicle]

Not the ones I'm thinking of.

society has become large and diverse enough that it supports an ecosystem of personality types ... these guys are the predators or opportunistic predators like bears.

 

[Agian]

Opportunistic weasels who think they're bears.

 

[epstns]

Ummm. . . back to the original topic, OK?

Just after I had my valve replaced, I found that I was ALWAYS cold. In the house, I walked around with a blanket around me all day. Outside (March in Chicago), I dressed for the arctic. I complained to my docs and they checked a lot of things. The only issue they found was that I was slightly anemic - not enough so to warrant treatment or meds, they just told me to try to eat well. (Fat chance of THAT in the first few weeks after valve surgery.) It just seemed that over the first few months following surgery, the chills gradually diminished. No "Eureka!" moments, just drifted away.

I guess I would try to just take care of yourself, dress however keeps you comfortable (and legal. . . ), and try not to worry about it.

 

[almost_hectic]

Ummm. . . back to the original topic, OK?

Just after I had my valve replaced, I found that I was ALWAYS cold. In the house, I walked around with a blanket around me all day. Outside (March in Chicago), I dressed for the arctic. I complained to my docs and they checked a lot of things. The only issue they found was that I was slightly anemic - not enough so to warrant treatment or meds, they just told me to try to eat well. (Fat chance of THAT in the first few weeks after valve surgery.) It just seemed that over the first few months following surgery, the chills gradually diminished. No "Eureka!" moments, just drifted away.

I guess I would try to just take care of yourself, dress however keeps you comfortable (and legal. . . ), and try not to worry about it.

Hey thanks. Yeah just in the past week I feel much more comfortable mostly. Chills during the day have mostly gone away as well as have the hot nights. I actually haven't even given it much thought until I just read your post. Coincidentally most of my pain is gone too and I've felt stronger using my arms. Still a tiny bit tender in my incision area, but I was told it would take 6 weeks for the bone to heal... Well this is week 6! I made it! Hoping thing will progress much quicker now. yesterday I drove for the first time since surgery, well I did okay, but that steering stuff was harder than I thought.

 

[MrsBray]

Oh my gosh, almost_hectic, you're only a month-ish out of surgery. YES, you're going to have temperature-regulation issues for maybe a few more months! And when you do settle down, you'll find that since your circulation is a JILLION times better than before, you're not going to get cold as fast, and the humid heat won't sap your strength as fast. Climate just simply becomes easier to tolerate because your blood is moving around your body like it was meant to.

That's all.
(I grew up near Buffalo. I refuse to tolerate the cold anymore. Hence - Tarpon Springs.)
(PS Thin blood? Yes, when I notice I'm bruising easily then go for INR test and it's high, I *swear* it feels like its moving faster through my veins. I just shake my head and go on about life.)

You'll have a new normal, it'll take around 12 months (give or take some). I'm 18 months out and still noticing new differences. That's life.