reducing coumadin intake with fish oils?

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sunonwaves

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Ahh ok, we are in Australia where the 5mg is green, the 2mg is light purple and the 1mg is cream ;)

AL Capshaw, Im still getting used to understanding the INR properly, so do you mean that you think they have upped his dosage to quickly and to much?
So far he was totally stable sitting on 2.6 - 2.9 then his doctor called at 10pm one night to say that his bloods had come back with a INR of 1.9 (he has his bloods tested weekly ) so she wanted him to take 6mg that night instead of 7mg and to stay on that until he was tested again, he was tested 3 days later and it was then at 1.8 so they said to take 7mg, he was on that for 3 days and then tested with an INR of 2 so they told him to go on 8mg which he has been on for the past two nights, tonight will be his third night and he gets his bloods done again in two days....
Thoughts?
 

sunonwaves

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Also its just his general doctor (GP) that handles the warfarin dosing.
Thats odd re the antibiotics as we thought that must have been the reason it dropped so much...
Hmmm so the only other things that happened out of the usual were that he stopped taking coumudin and went on to meropolol (betablocker)
His diet really didn't change to much, he did have a lentil dish that had some fava beans in it, however we checked the vitamin K levels of fava beans and lentils before eating it and they said it was low...
He has the op about 6 weeks ago, so this is all new to us, its strange as since leaving hospital his INR was so stable, and then this..
 

Duff Man

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dose the diet, don't diet the dose... in other words, eat what you want consistently and adjust the dose accordingly
 

Lynlw

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Also its just his general doctor (GP) that handles the warfarin dosing.
Thats odd re the antibiotics as we thought that must have been the reason it dropped so much...
Hmmm so the only other things that happened out of the usual were that he stopped taking coumudin and went on to meropolol (betablocker)
His diet really didn't change to much, he did have a lentil dish that had some fava beans in it, however we checked the vitamin K levels of fava beans and lentils before eating it and they said it was low...
He has the op about 6 weeks ago, so this is all new to us, its strange as since leaving hospital his INR was so stable, and then this..
Has he been getting his walking in and becoming more active?
 

dick0236

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Ahh ok, we are in Australia where the 5mg is green, the 2mg is light purple and the 1mg is cream ;)
?
I stand corrected:redface2:....and that is good to know. I thought the color coding was the same throughout the world since so many Rx drugs are manufactured in many different countries. I have seen 5mg Coumadin from Canada and 5mg Warfarin from India and both were a "peach" or "pink" and I assumed that a common color code was used.
 

Herb_Webb

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Considering the damaging long term effects that coumadin, I really want to reduce my dose
You and I are on the same page. I've been on coumadin for 12 years. I have a mechanical valve and was told that I will always need to take coumadin. I've been reading some books on nutrition and heart disease and am beginning to wonder if the irregular clotting that we take coumadin for is the result of low levels of nutrients and vitamins. I'm not ready to jump ship yet, got a lot of tests and more to study before I will attempt that. The only supplement that I have heard of that is a blood thinner is bromaline (some extract from pineapple). However I have not read any research or testimonials where anyone tried to replace coumadin with bromaline. Nor have I tried it myself. According to what I am reading now (the high blood pressure hoax by Sherry Rogers) there are many things that keep blood flowing normally without abnormal clotting, including Vit K which is the clotting vitamin. As far as fish oil, I know nothing of that but will do some research.
have fun
Herb
 

newarrior

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Considering the damaging long term effects that coumadin has on the liver bones and arteries, I really want to reduce my dose, and am wondering if this can be done safely with fish oil (same amount taken everyday)
At the moment Im on 5mg (now 7mg as my INR is at 1.8 due I think to being on antibiotics)
Anyhow Id love to know if anyone has had experience with taking fish oil or natural blood thinners to reduce their coumadin intake.
Thanks in advance
"Considering the damaging long term effects that coumadin has on the liver bones and arteries" Christ is this documented ? Anyone else reading in 2021 ?
 

newarrior

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You and I are on the same page. I've been on coumadin for 12 years. I have a mechanical valve and was told that I will always need to take coumadin. I've been reading some books on nutrition and heart disease and am beginning to wonder if the irregular clotting that we take coumadin for is the result of low levels of nutrients and vitamins. I'm not ready to jump ship yet, got a lot of tests and more to study before I will attempt that. The only supplement that I have heard of that is a blood thinner is bromaline (some extract from pineapple). However I have not read any research or testimonials where anyone tried to replace coumadin with bromaline. Nor have I tried it myself. According to what I am reading now (the high blood pressure hoax by Sherry Rogers) there are many things that keep blood flowing normally without abnormal clotting, including Vit K which is the clotting vitamin. As far as fish oil, I know nothing of that but will do some research.
have fun
Herb
Maybe try:
.

What can I take instead of Coumadin?
What Are My Options?
Apixaban (Eliquis)
Dabigatran (Pradaxa)
Edoxaban (Savaysa)
Rivaroxaban (Xarelto)
 

Superman

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"Considering the damaging long term effects that coumadin has on the liver bones and arteries" Christ is this documented ? Anyone else reading in 2021 ?
Now you’re digging up 10 year old questions where all the responses refute what the OP was asking about. Just stop it all ready. Seriously. Find a hobby. I’ve been enjoying photography. Lots to learn and as far as stuff to do on your own - doesn’t get better. I just bore other people with it anyway. 😁. Plus you live in what most in the States would consider to be an exotic location.
 

Protimenow

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Damaging effects of warfarin?

Some of us have been taking it for 40 or more years. I don' know of any of who are growing horns out of our foreheads, or whose livers failed, or the other scare stuff you've read or heard.

If you have a prosthetic valve, there's no substitute for warfarin.

As far as 'regular\ clotting is concerned, warfarin is classified as a Vitamin K agonist - this means that Vitamin K, an essential component for clotting, doesn't work as well (so clotting takes longer) as it normally does. If you consume a lot of stuff with vitamin K (leafy greens, green smoothies, etc.) the extra Vitamin K will cause your INR to decrease. Stop the greens, and it'll go up.

The trick is to have a consistent amount of greens so you can adjust your dosage to compensate for the extra Vitamin K in your diet.

Bromelain may inhibit clotting. High doses of Aspirin will have an effect on clotting. There are many things that might slow clotting - but they're not standardized enough or reliable enough to know that they slow down or prevent clots from forming on our valves. Coumadin works. It's easy to adjust the dose. It's easy to test the results (INR and prothrombin time), it's easily reversed, pills are made in various standardized dosages, there's no realistic alternative. )


The other, much more expensive drugs are pushed to doctors who prescribe it to patients with AFib. Warfarin works just as well - but requires closer monitoring.
 
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newarrior

I have mild moderate Aortic Stenosis live Bangkok
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Damaging effects of warfarin?

Some of us have been taking it for 40 or more years. I don' know of any of who are growing horns out of our foreheads, or whose livers failed, or the other scare stuff you've read or heard.

If you have a prosthetic valve, there's no substitute for warfarin.

As far as 'regular\ clotting is concerned, warfarin is classified as a Vitamin K agonist - this means that Vitamin K, an essential component for clotting, doesn't work as well (so clotting takes longer) as it normally does. If you consume a lot of stuff with vitamin K (leafy greens, green smoothies, etc.) the extra Vitamin K will cause your INR to decrease. Stop the greens, and it'll go up.

The trick is to have a consistent amount of greens so you can adjust your dosage to compensate for the extra Vitamin K in your diet.

Bromelain may inhibit clotting. High doses of Aspirin will have an effect on clotting. There are many things that might slow clotting - but they're not standardized enough or reliable enough to know that they slow down or prevent clots from forming on our valves. Coumadin works. It's easy to adjust the dose. It's easy to test the results (INR and prothrombin time), it's easily reversed, pills are made in various standardized dosages, there's no realistic alternative. )


The other, much more expensive drugs are pushed to doctors who prescribe it to patients with AFib. Warfarin works just as well - but requires closer monitoring.
Just replying to an old quote, "sunonwaves said:
Considering the damaging long term effects that coumadin has on the liver bones and arteries, I really want to reduce my dose, and am wondering if this can be done safely with fish oil (same amount taken everyday)
At the moment Im on 5mg (now 7mg as my INR is at 1.8 due I think to being on antibiotics)
Anyhow Id love to know if anyone has had experience with taking fish oil or natural blood thinners to reduce their coumadin intake.
Thanks in advance"
 

newarrior

I have mild moderate Aortic Stenosis live Bangkok
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The other, much more expensive drugs are pushed to doctors who prescribe it to patients with AFib. Warfarin works just as well - but requires closer monitoring.
Do you get used to taking it, the self monitoring etc ? If you can't take bromelein, aspirin and ibruprofin for for chronic pain and tylenol does not work what do you for for pain ?
 

Protimenow

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I don't understand why repeating the arguments that warfarin causes liver damage, etc. is still coming up. For most, if not all, people taking warfarin, it's JUST NOT TRUE.

Stop believing this crap, or using it as a reason to avoid warfarin.

As far as using Fish Oil, or other natural anticoagulants (warfarin does NOT THIN THE BLOOD), how are you going to measure its effectiveness? How will you know that it's working? And how would you feel if you're taking 3000 grams of Fish Oil every day?

Don't try to avoid warfarin because of B.S. you may have heard. Don't try some alternative with effects that you won't be able to verify.

Trust that the many millions (billions?) of doses, taken for at least 50 years don't cause the 'proven' negative effects that you're worried about.

Obsessing about the horrors of coumadin could cost you your life.
 

Warrick

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Tyenol or paracetamol as we call it here in NZ works fine thanks.
Theres something like 69 years of the use of warfarin on humanity and still nothing conclusive on all the warfarin myths out there that seem to pop up like navel lint.

Even IF warfarin caused half the amount of ailments its suppose to whats the big deal?
Alcohol causes liver disease- we drink.
Tobacco causes lung cancer- we smoke.
The sun causes skin cancer- we sunbathe, sunbed and go outside.
Some sleeping pills cause cancer yet they are still prescribed to millions of people.
Warfarin prevents you dying prematurely from an avoidable blood clot so its a pretty good thing.
It is not a hassle, a burden, a drag or takes up my life. 20 seconds a day to take a dose with a bit of water, A couple of minutes a week to fill out a pill box and less than 2 minutes start to finish to do a self test once a week. Can take longer than all added up to boil the jug and make a cup of tea.

My fathers whos 80 on monday has been on warfarin since 1985 with a mech valve. Hes just been given a month or two to live from cancer, so its not the warfarin or a mechanical valve thats going to end him.
 
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newarrior

I have mild moderate Aortic Stenosis live Bangkok
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I don't understand why repeating the arguments that warfarin causes liver damage, etc. is still coming up. For most, if not all, people taking warfarin, it's JUST NOT TRUE.

Stop believing this crap, or using it as a reason to avoid warfarin.

As far as using Fish Oil, or other natural anticoagulants (warfarin does NOT THIN THE BLOOD), how are you going to measure its effectiveness? How will you know that it's working? And how would you feel if you're taking 3000 grams of Fish Oil every day?

Don't try to avoid warfarin because of B.S. you may have heard. Don't try some alternative with effects that you won't be able to verify.

Trust that the many millions (billions?) of doses, taken for at least 50 years don't cause the 'proven' negative effects that you're worried about.

Obsessing about the horrors of coumadin could cost you your life.
I was simply quoting research posted by another member of the forum..
 

Superman

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I was simply quoting research posted by another member of the forum..
No. You weren’t. You were latching on to a 10 year old post that was debunked in all the 10 year old responses because that was a post that fed into your emotions. Something I think you get a sort of satisfaction from. Some people like wallowing in their misery and seek out things that feed it. Been there myself. Listening to a song that, for whatever reason, triggers an emotional response of sadness. Then I listen to it again.
 

kevanndo

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Newarrior, I've read a number of your posts, and it seems that you tend to hyperfocus on your woes, miseries, and sorrows. Such a tendency can often be a form of excessive self-indulgence which can only be destructive. It becomes a sort of gnawing worm from which there is no relief. In all honesty, perhaps it would be most beneficial for you if you stopped researching your condition, and possibly even gave yourself a break from this forum for a while. While I know you have often lamented that you are single and alone, maybe you could use that to your advantage. Your lack of attachment to family gives you a unique opportunity to commit yourself to interests, hobbies, and service to others that those of us with children at home don't yet have the luxury to explore. Surely there is something positive to be gained from your relative freedom to come and go as you please. I truly hope you can find a new perspective that gives you some peace.
 
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