One more thread about alcohol

[Kate]

I'm still confused about the issue of alcohol and Coumadin. People who post about this are regularly told that moderate consumption of alcohol is okay on Coumadin. Yet, when you go to the Coumadin website, it clearly states one should not drink alcohol while on this drug. In fact, it is one of only a few "don'ts" listed and is repeated in several places throughout the website.

Now, obviously, a great many people who take Coumadin DO drink, but I wonder about saying it's okay to drink on Coumadin if the manufacturer says categorically one should not. I guess this feels like a bit of an ethical issue for me. What do others think? Kate

 

[geebee]

I think what needs to be kept in mind is that all manufacturer websites do the CYA thing. All it takes is a small percent of people who have problems or do something stupid to have a needed disclaimer. Things like "do not operate hair dryers in the bathtub" or "do not iron your clothes while wearing", come from lawsuits or problems connected to those actions. Likewise with medicine and warnings. A one or two percent (or maybe even less) of test subjects having problems with alcohol and coumadin can prompt a warning that no one should drink alcohol while taking the drug.

I have been on coumadin for 26 years come October 31st. I have been drinking longer than that and intend to keep doing so. I do not binge, although I do admit to a few times where I have had more than I should have. Normally I have a few drinks a week, mostly on weekends. I have never found it to be a problem with my INR.

 

[Natanni]

I can see totally see your point Kate because alcohol can have least two different roles in coumadin anticoagulation. From what I have heard, it can have some effect on INR (we have not seen this with my husband yet) and damage the liver and impair its performance. Maybe these things are one in the same. My husband does have beer or wine (1-2) a few times a week. His cardio and internist agree that this is not a big deal. In fact, hubby got the "okay" for Ibuprofen as needed for migranes, and I do think this is also contraindicated with Warfarin, but his cardio is the one who gave him this on his discharge summary. I don't want to give the impression that this is okay for everyone, but at least for now this is working okay for him. He went through open heart surgery and life long coumadin committment to have the best quality of life, but that means having a beer with his buds

Take care Kate!

 

[Ross]

Yes it's a CYA statement. As you know, alcohol can irritate the stomach lining and cause a GI bleed. Many others things can as well, but those that drink alcohol usual do not drink in moderation, so it's better to say do not drink alcohol while using this medication then to try and tell people why.

 

[Karlynn]

And it's kind of like the "Do not drive or operate machinery" warning on some OTC meds like cold remedies. You have to know how it will effect you.

It does not effect my INR much. Although the Monday after our houseboat trip when I had rum and cokes, and my fav - Cosmopolitans, it was a tad high. Don't know if it was just the rowdy weekend away, or the alcohol!

If I had ulcers or suspected ulcers or intestinal problems, I would probably stay away from consuming much, but I'd probably still have a glass of wine on occasions. Al has said that the danger of alcohol consumption is that is could exacerbate bleeding in GI issues.

If someone has a drinking problem, then the Coumadin could be a big issue. But for the average social drinker who drinks in moderation and not soley to get drunk, it really isn't an issue.

I'm a cheap date. I'm pretty much of a 2 drink woman . I stop there, not because of Coumadin, but because of how I feel later. Too much alcohol also speeds up my heart rate and I hate that. So I avoid it.

I don't have an ethical issue with telling people that it's okay to drink, because we always give the warnings. We haven't had anyone come back yet and report that they read our posts and had a few drinks and then had a bleeding issue.

 

[hensylee]

as a matter of information, I heard on the radio yesterday that adding diet coke/pepsi - any diet drink to alcohol can speed up the effects of alcohol and make you drunker, quicker, so watch out.

 

[StretchL]

as a matter of information, I heard on the radio yesterday that adding diet coke/pepsi - any diet drink to alcohol can speed up the effects of alcohol and make you drunker, quicker, so watch out.

We used to make something in college we called "Green G**Dams... Grain alcohol and Gatorade... because the gatorade was supposed to absorb into your system quicker... Like 20 year olds (or anyone else for that matter!) NEEDED 200 proof grain alcohol in their system in the first place! LOL

Yesterday morning, as I was enjoying a nice, big, pink grapefruit, I remembered that the label on my Vytorin says absolutely, positively to "avoid grapefruit and grapefruit juice while taking this medication."

I called a local pharmacist to ask, somewhat in jest, if as a result of my breakfast I should prepare to keel over and die. He basically laughed off the warning label, saying that if someone were to eat 3 grapefruits on an empty stomach, while taking Vytorin, that person might have a problem.

It's sure not as fun, sometimes, but when in doubt, let us all harken back to the immortal words of the great ObiWan Kenobi in the Cantina scene in the original Star Wars:

"All in moderation, Young Skywalker..."

 

[mtkayak]

I like the Warning Labels they have in Europe. On a pack of cigarettes where the Surgeon General Warning is, it says "Smoking Kills". How's that for a blunt statement.

 

[Karlynn]

I also forgot to mention that the other issue with alcohol is if you get falling-down-drunk you may hit your head really hard and get a bleed.

The only way I can see Coke products getting you drunker quicker is by the caffeine speeding up your heart and the alcohol being processed more quickly.

Or it could be one of those Young College Student Tales (similar to Old Wives).

Stretch - shots are big now in college. All kinds of strange shots. When we went to see my daughter for a football weekend at MSU, we were "forced" to partake of a Redheaded Slut and a Dirty Girl Scout. I feel very worldly now.

I was also told by my daughter that, similar to your green concoction, Gatorade and Vodka is now popular, not because it gets you drunker more quickly, but because it's supposed to keep you hydrated so you don't get as bad a hang-over. And they call colleges "institutions of higher learning".

PS- I'm aware that "drunker" is not really a word. It's just shorter to type than "drunk more quickly"

 

[dkapuscik]

"do not iron your clothes while wearing",

You crack me up Gina. That is one of the funniest things I have heard in awhile. Can you imagine. lol

I totaly agree. If you want to drink then JUST DO IT. If it is an important part of your life then LIVE YOUR LIFE. You didn't worry about it before your heart issue so dont worry about it now. Its not what the cause of your problem was in the first place. I wouldn't recomend turning up a bottle of Quervo and guzzling 1/2 but most of us are not 20 years old anymore. Just be prudent and if you feel like you have had a few to many, lay off for awhile.

 

[gijanet]

Well, I hate to be the party pooper here............

Well, I hate to be the party pooper here............

but I refuse to allow Katie to drink any alcoholic beverages whatsoever!!! No spiked Kool-Aid here................except for mom's. She's been driving me to drink for quite some time..............well, for about 5&1/2 years now!

 

[geebee]

but I refuse to allow Katie to drink any alcoholic beverages whatsoever!!! No spiked Kool-Aid here................except for mom's. She's been driving me to drink for quite some time..............well, for about 5&1/2 years now!

Now, Janet, you have to let her live her own life. Just because you live a boring life that doesn't mean you should ruin Katie's.

 

[MikeHeim]

Not being on Coumadin myself, I can only relate second-hand experience. A good friend of mine had a frat brother who had a mechanical valve implanted while he was a teenager. He drank like a fish all through college and apparently hasn't changed much since then (the college was in northern Minnesota, so there's a full 11.5 months of the year where few dare to venture outside). I won't relate any of the stories, but rest assured, he most likely destroyed any chance that he would have had to run for office anytime in the future. Regardless, he has yet to have any issues with regards to the Coumadin. I certainly don't think that anyone on this site (or me, for that matter) would endorse getting wasted every other day, but it shows that at least one person has been able to do it for 10+ years without dying of a stroke or intestinal bleed.

 

[Kate]

Thanks everyone for commenting - this is very helpful, especially when put in the context of "don't operate heavy machinery" warnings, etc. I feel much more comfortable with the whole issue now. Best, Kate

 

[StretchL]

Kate, after I wrote my rather flippant attempt at humor, I got to thinking how this really is a serious question for anyone considering a mechanical valve. It was for me.

Every medical professional who I asked about alcohol while on Coumadin, as well as salads on Coumadin, etc., said that what's important is keeping the intake of either regular, and not binging.

With that said, as you know, I've decided against a mechanical valve simply because I don't want to deal with Coumadin, even though I was comfortable with the idea of steady moderate alcohol consumption if I *were* on Coumadin. (Honestly, I would miss the occasional long night of food and drink celebrating the end of a big shoot with a well-financed client, but, in the interest of my mechanical valve, I would be willing to what I had to do: speak those awful words, "No more for me," after two drinks. )

I think the final decision for me about Coumadin grew out of the history of my heart condition. Other than avoiding contact sports and heavy lifting, my bicuspid valve has not been an issue for me. Coumadin therapy after my inevitable valve surgery would suddenly thrust my condition to the forefront both daily (with the pill, really a non-issue), and weekly/monthly (with the INR monitoring, a bigger issue). For me there's also the issue of my inability to control my diet or, more importantly, be close to emergency medical care in some of the remote areas to which I travel.

Someone here put it very well... it might have been you... when they said that they'd prefer the occasional high stress event of surgery to the steady low stress of Coumadin. That, combined with the continued evolution, and even more positive outcomes, of OHS led me away from a mechanical valve and lifelong Coumadin therapy.

Just my $.02.

 

[mtkayak]

Who said you could only have 2 drinks? I thought it was 12 Like the Budweiser commercial says "Drink Responsibly". I think they that commercial and marketing is geared more towards Coumadin users rather than Drunk drivers

What happens if I have 8 like last weekend?:

 

[Karlynn]

Kate, do you mind if I ask why you were concerned about the alcohol issue since you have a tissue valve? Are you thinking of choosing a mechanical for your next OHS?

 

[catwoman]

Years ago, I was in Traverse City Michigan for a convention. A friend & I drove into Canada one afternoon. We were amused at the signs warning against passing cars when there was oncoming traffic.
A true "no-brainer," especially if you choose to ignore the warning signs!
In fact, it could become an out-of-body experience -- the ultimate one!

Who said you could only have 2 drinks? I thought it was 12 Like the Budweiser commercial says "Drink Responsibly". I think they that commercial and marketing is geared more towards Coumadin users rather than Drunk drivers

What happens if I have 8 like last weekend?:

Depends on the size of those 2 or those 8 drinks!

 

[Kate]

Kate, do you mind if I ask why you were concerned about the alcohol issue since you have a tissue valve? Are you thinking of choosing a mechanical for your next OHS?

I don't mind your asking at all. I hope to be able to go biological for my next OHS, but that will depend upon my health at the time and how long my current valve lasts (I've given myself an informal guideline of 10+ years, I'll go biological again, less than 10 years and I'll be ticking with the rest of you ). Also, I just don't know how I'll feel about this issue by the time I need my replacement. Heaven knows, I don't now think about many issues as I did when I was 29, so I imagine the same will be true when I'm 49. And, as I've said before, I'm not a heavy drinker but take a great deal of pleasure in having a beer or two. So, it interests me to know what is truly allowable on Coumadin.

All that said, I'm also very interested in what is communicated on this site and was uncomfortable with what seemed like a contradiction between what was being posted and what appeared on the Coumadin site. However, the posts above have helped me to remember that, as in all things, one must balance the ideal against the reality of everyday life and come up with a liveable compromise. That makes sense to me, so I'm comfortable with this now. Thanks again for helping me think it through (and congratulations on your new grandchild!) Kate

 

[Cooker]

As a mechanical valver I prefer........Well the avitar says enough.
No INR problems so far

Cooker