More life insurance stuff.

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Superman

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Grand Rapids, MI, USA
It seems the second OHS was the magic number. Called about extending my 20 year term policy that expires in 7 or 8 years. Nope. No dice. I even told them about the lifetime guarantee. However, my policy is convertible to whole life - but it'll cost me. Probably as much as it would to self insure.
 

dick0236

Eat the elephant one bite at a time
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louisville, KY USA
Superman;n871197 said:
.............. my policy is convertible to whole life - but it'll cost me. Probably as much as it would to self insure.
It's a bummer......but, unfortunately, that's the way it is. I had to depend on group insurance during my working life because no insurer would insure me at a reasonable price. I did use the "conversion feature" to convert some of my group term life insurance to a private "whole life" policy. The plus is that the policy is at a Standard(non-rated premium) for your age. The minus is that the "permanent" premium is quite a bit higher than the current "term" premium. The premium will be fixed for life and the policy will build a "cash value". In my case I built enough cash value so that my policy now is "paid-up"........short story is I have a substantial amount of "death benefit" that I no longer pay premiums for......and at a time in my life when it will be used. You might consider converting a partial amount of your current term policy that you would like to carry into old age.......and leave the balance as Term for the next 7 or 8 years.
 

Superman

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All good. We just bought a bigger place and I was looking to extend my term is all. I have a fair amount of coverage through work and my wife has a rider on me through her work too. We have a term policy outside of that with about eight years left. They won't let me extend it another ten or twenty. Seems they could underwrite me 12 years ago with just one OHS under my belt. Now they're betting against my outliving a new policy.

I can convert to whole for the existing coverage level without re-underwriting, but at the premium level I'm better off just investing the money. I'll keep what we've got in place for the next eight years and go from there. Maybe another eight years living will give them confidence in my parts.

dick0236,

I'll be self insured by then. Got quite a bit built up in tax deferred retirement and the kids will be through college. My reasons for having insurance will be taken care of.
 

pellicle

Professional Dingbat
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Nov 4, 2012
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Queensland, OzTrayLeeYa
Superman;n871202 said:
All good. .... Seems they could underwrite me 12 years ago with just one OHS under my belt. Now they're betting against my outliving a new policy.
well I guess that as Dick says "that's just the way it is.

Still, always makes me feel sad reading stuff like this.
 

kloned

Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2016
Messages
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Location
Michigan
I am 46 just coming off OHS and BAV replacement and just this month my 20 year life policy went from $29-$99 a month and this is before they knew about my surgery. So we called and the said I can continue the $99 a month but can no longer offer me another term life. Makes you feel real good doesn't it. Well I feel great and thats all that matters.
 

Superman

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Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Pellicle,

Being a professional researcher - I was wondering if you knew of any studies that speak to life expectancy of a mechanical valve recipient under 40 years old? Every data point I'm finding has an average participant age of 60. I'm not even in the standard deviation on these things.

I think the underwriters are making decisions on bad data. You can't take data from a group of 60 plus year olds (no offense to anyone intended) and apply it to someone in their early 40's. I'm already on borrowed time based on that data. 16 years? I'm 10 years into overtime!
 

Superman

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Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Sent this to the agent. Won't matter, but it felt good:

[FONT=&quot]I still think underwriters are using bad statistics on this. It’s all a bet, right? Will I outlive the policy? If I do – yay for Insurance Company – they keep the premiums. If I don’t, then the Insurance Company has to pay. So they find studies that say the average life expectancy post AVR is 16 years ±. But the problem they are going to run into is that any study that’s been done on AVR patients is generally done with an average age of the study participant over 60 years old. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The mean age of an AVR patient is 70 years per the following:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003497500018634[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Even this one, which is most applicable has the average age of mechanical valve recipients ± 60 years with a standard deviation of 12.1 years. I’m 44. I’m not even in the SD.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.jtcvsonline.org/article/S0022-5223(03)00591-9/fulltext#Patients[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Another one with the mean age of participant at 58 years for mechanical valves.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.jtcvsonline.org/article/S0022-5223(06)00299-6/abstract[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stands to reason that a personal in their 60’s would have a life expectancy of less than 20 years post OHS. I get that. I am still only 44 with no other co-morbidities. Seems silly to not even do a physical to check things out for themselves. Insurance Company has an opportunity to take my money for the next 20 years. Going to pass on it based on irrelevant studies?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You can forward this to your underwriting group if you wish.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thanks,

Me[/FONT]
 

DachsieMom

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CT
So trying to follow this - if you are young, no co-morbidities and had AVR, has anyone been successful getting term insurance?
 

dornole

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Minnesota, US
You must be a rich dude indeed if you're thinking of self-insuring for medical. Stuff happens that is way more expensive than OHS (I think of my twins and their $1M each 4-month NICU stays for example . . . ) Unless you're planning to just "total" yourself like a crashed car with no collision rider and . . . get a new you, if that happens?
 

Superman

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Grand Rapids, MI, USA
DachsieMom;n871230 said:
So trying to follow this - if you are young, no co-morbidities and had AVR, has anyone been successful getting term insurance?
I was successful when I was 31 and only had one OHS under my belt. At 44 and two surgery's, I'm not having any luck.
 

Superman

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Joined
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Messages
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Grand Rapids, MI, USA
dornole;n871249 said:
You must be a rich dude indeed if you're thinking of self-insuring for medical. Stuff happens that is way more expensive than OHS (I think of my twins and their $1M each 4-month NICU stays for example . . . ) Unless you're planning to just "total" yourself like a crashed car with no collision rider and . . . get a new you, if that happens?
Not medical. Just term life insurance. My wife can get $250,000 30 year level term policy for $25 / month. I can't find anyone that's willing to bet that I won't die in the next 20 years.
 

epstns

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Chicago area
Superman - I replied to the other insurance thread, so I won't re-post the whole thing. I believe, though, that there are different "standard" policies when it comes to the end of a guaranteed policy term. Some allow the option to "convert" them to whole life. Others, like mine, allow the option to simply extend the current policy on a year-to-year basis with an age-adjusted premium. Still others allow no extension or conversion at all. It is sad that most of us never had VR or OHS on our minds when we first established our insurance coverage, as we might have made different selections.

I consider myself semi-lucky. I had a fairly substantial 20-year guaranteed term life policy that came to the end of its term a couple of years ago. The insurer sent me an invoice that simply allowed me to continue the same coverage, with no medical re-underwriting, no medical questionnaire, no additional documentation. The only rub was that my premium was the age-adjusted "rack rate" for the policy as if I had just applied for it at age 69. My annual premium is now about 2.5X what it was, but the coverage is seamlessly in place. It is pricey, but I'll keep it in place until I no longer need it as a family safety net. I look at it this way -- If I subtract each year's premium from the death benefit, there is no way I could possibly live long enough for the net benefit to reach zero, thus the family is better off if I just keep it.
 

Superman

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Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Thanks epstns (which I always read as ESPN). I checked into extending my existing policy, but no luck. And not surprisingly, no reply from the agent at all when I questioned their underwriting assumptions.

I can convert to whole, but to the tune or $4,000 annually for $250,000 coverage. And it's an expensive universal policy where my cash value is chewed up by policy expenses. If I can average 8% return, I can invest that premium myself and be in the same position in a little over 20 years instead of at age 100, which whole life policies are designed to do.
 

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