Just went on Coumadin - looking for a good electric razor
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ski girl
Well-known member
Doctor is being waaay overly cautious! Many of us on warfarin here have done far worse than cut ourselves shaving and we're still alive!
Shave as normal.
Shave as normal.
pellicle
Professional Dingbat, Guru and Merkintologist
wasn't there a guy recently posting about shaving with a straight razor?
hell I cut myself the other day and it was quite OK.
hell I cut myself the other day and it was quite OK.
I switched to an electric, but more out of laziness than need. Once I was off the coumadin, I never changed back. My electric is a Norelco Rotary Blade model, one which does not shave wet but can be cleaned under running water. It is OK, but during the summer when the humidity is high, it can irritate the skin. The blade gives me a closer shave, but the electric is adequate.
I agree that your doctor is being too cautious. I've been on warfarin for a year now and have continued with my twin blade razor. I've nicked myself a few times but a styptic pencil easily stops the bleeding. If you like the shave you get with an electric, go for it. If not, consider taking a "wait and see" attitude (and buy a styptic pencil at the drug store).
I agree with the others -- the doctor apparently doesn't understand anticoagulation. I've used a blade nearly all my life. The few times that I've tried electric razors, I wound up with little irritations on my skin. If your doctor worries about the bleeding from occasional nicks that a blade can make, then your skin will absolutely OOZE blood when you break through it trying to get a close shave with an electric razor.
I get nicks. My INR is usually between 2.5 and 3.5 -- and it is no big deal. Shave whichever way is comfortable for you (of course, this is only my opinion, but obviously one that is shared by many others here).
I get nicks. My INR is usually between 2.5 and 3.5 -- and it is no big deal. Shave whichever way is comfortable for you (of course, this is only my opinion, but obviously one that is shared by many others here).
Hard to believe you were told this at the Cleveland Clinic. It's superstition. Maybe if you are 85 and have tremors it would be a good idea. I was told the same thing by an old nurse, but it was quickly contradicted by my surgeon's PA and the pharmacist/trainer.
Hey. What's wrong with a beard?
AgilityDog
Well-known member
Hey, I was told this SAME thing here in Dallas in 2006. I even tried to use one. Waste of $80.
Now, my baby sister was prohibited from shaving at all when she had leukemia. She tried it once, and oozed for hours.
You wanna talk about blood that doesn't clot, try AML! That's serious lack of clotting. Oh yeah, she HAD NO mature red blood cells. Warfarin ain't nothin.
Now, my baby sister was prohibited from shaving at all when she had leukemia. She tried it once, and oozed for hours.
You wanna talk about blood that doesn't clot, try AML! That's serious lack of clotting. Oh yeah, she HAD NO mature red blood cells. Warfarin ain't nothin.
Jkm7
Well-known member
I only had a short course of coumadin after getting my tissue valve but continued to shave my legs with a blade. No one suggested I shouldn't use a razor. Your doctor could use a bit of 'updating' as to coumadin.
Please read the threads on this forum to learn so many out of date things still are passed on to patients by medical professionals who have not kept up with new understanding of coumadin.
Please do not let them tell you that you cannot eat vitamin K foods and have to give up salads blah blah blah
You need to learn to dose your diet, not diet your dose. All that dieting your dose does is prove the coumadin manager was right in the dose they prescribed and if you do not test in range, it turns into your fault. Ridiculous.
You should eat your usual healthy diet, within reason, BE CONSISTENT, and your coumadin manager has to find the correct dose for you. We all metabolize coumadin differently and all our doses are different.
You do not have to shave with an electric razor. Use your normal care and continue shaving as you always have.
Have a chat with your doctor and discuss the 'education' you are getting here on VR.org and from all your reading. Maybe your doctor may update his advice.
IMO....... I'm no doctor and suggest you discuss this with your doctor(s).
Please read the threads on this forum to learn so many out of date things still are passed on to patients by medical professionals who have not kept up with new understanding of coumadin.
Please do not let them tell you that you cannot eat vitamin K foods and have to give up salads blah blah blah
You need to learn to dose your diet, not diet your dose. All that dieting your dose does is prove the coumadin manager was right in the dose they prescribed and if you do not test in range, it turns into your fault. Ridiculous.
You should eat your usual healthy diet, within reason, BE CONSISTENT, and your coumadin manager has to find the correct dose for you. We all metabolize coumadin differently and all our doses are different.
You do not have to shave with an electric razor. Use your normal care and continue shaving as you always have.
Have a chat with your doctor and discuss the 'education' you are getting here on VR.org and from all your reading. Maybe your doctor may update his advice.
IMO....... I'm no doctor and suggest you discuss this with your doctor(s).
Heart Of The Sunrise
Well-known member
Do not waste your money. I had the same fear that if I cut myself shaving my bleeding would be hard to stop.
My INR was 3.2 that week. It did not take too long for the bleeding to stop. My INR when last tested was 2.7. Blood test this coming Monday. I actually grew my beard back when I was on FMLA.:thumbup:
My INR was 3.2 that week. It did not take too long for the bleeding to stop. My INR when last tested was 2.7. Blood test this coming Monday. I actually grew my beard back when I was on FMLA.:thumbup:
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I tried electric years ago and had the worst skin rash I could even imagine. I may try being extra careful and keep a pencil closeby. Thanks for
Jkm7
Well-known member
Canon,
I've been wondering how you are doing shaving with your usual razor?
Did your doctor or coumadin manager have any issue you chose to not use an electric razor?
Hope you continue to recover well.
I've been wondering how you are doing shaving with your usual razor?
Did your doctor or coumadin manager have any issue you chose to not use an electric razor?
Hope you continue to recover well.
"Coumadin Manager?" In my brief experience the last 14 months going to an 'Anticoagulation Clinic,' I've been very negatively impressed by the entire experience. I can't completely fault the people there - they mean well. In my case, they're following some stupid protocols that limit what they can do, and what they can advise. At the clinic where I go, they're content with testing once a month, as long as your INR AT THAT INSTANT is within range. It could be ANYWHERE between tests, but as long as it's in range that one time a month that they test it, this is fine with them.
They prohibited me from testing my own blood at home -- but at least they couldn't go to my house and confiscate my meters. During the times between tests, my INR has been up and down - this probably happens to all of us - but they would never know this by taking tests once a month.
Now, they'll let me use my own meter -- I just have to BRING IT TO THE HOSPITAL and LET THEM TEST IT and IF THEY FIND IT ACCEPTABLE, THEY'LL ENROLL ME IN A PHILIPS PROGRAM. They apparently assume that everyone who takes warfarin is just TOO DAMNED STUPID to report results to a 'professional.' God forbid if they actually try to MANAGE their own INR.
Now, this 'clinic' may be deciding that the protocol for a mechanical Aortic valve (like the one that I have) should be in a range of 2.0-3.0. It doesn't matter to them that there's an inherent range - even with lab testing - of about .2-.3. They can't understand how a 2.0 reported by a lab may actually be more like 1.7 -- putting you at risk of stroke.
I realize that I'm no longer talking about shaving with razor versus electric razor. I'm concerned that many of us put our lives into the hands of these 'professionals' who are following outdated rules and myths. For myself, I test weekly. Other than testing every four days (which is a bit excessive, though little more than just a minimal pain in the finger), there's little better way to confirm that my INR is in range. I rarely make any changes in medication - but have when my INR dropped below 2.0. I've been careful to be conservative with dosing changes, tried to calculate my weekly dosage into equal dosages from day to day, and am a lot more comfortable than I would be with these 'clinics' or 'professionals.'
This isn't bragging. I'm making no claims of superiority. I just feel that I'm in better hands when I'm in my own hands than when I trust my anticoagulation to others who are content with monthly (or bi-monthly) testing, and who might even insist on a new range that, to me, seems to be ASKING for trouble. Personally, I feel a lot more comfortable at the high end of my range than I do anywhere near the low end.
Get yourself a meter. Test weekly. I hope that your MD is comfortable with self-testing. Shave (or don't shave) with whatever device you are most comfortable using (but be careful).
I'm sure that others here will agree with the absolute value of self-testing. I'm sure that many would agree with the benefit of weekly testing (versus monthly or less frequent testing).
They prohibited me from testing my own blood at home -- but at least they couldn't go to my house and confiscate my meters. During the times between tests, my INR has been up and down - this probably happens to all of us - but they would never know this by taking tests once a month.
Now, they'll let me use my own meter -- I just have to BRING IT TO THE HOSPITAL and LET THEM TEST IT and IF THEY FIND IT ACCEPTABLE, THEY'LL ENROLL ME IN A PHILIPS PROGRAM. They apparently assume that everyone who takes warfarin is just TOO DAMNED STUPID to report results to a 'professional.' God forbid if they actually try to MANAGE their own INR.
Now, this 'clinic' may be deciding that the protocol for a mechanical Aortic valve (like the one that I have) should be in a range of 2.0-3.0. It doesn't matter to them that there's an inherent range - even with lab testing - of about .2-.3. They can't understand how a 2.0 reported by a lab may actually be more like 1.7 -- putting you at risk of stroke.
I realize that I'm no longer talking about shaving with razor versus electric razor. I'm concerned that many of us put our lives into the hands of these 'professionals' who are following outdated rules and myths. For myself, I test weekly. Other than testing every four days (which is a bit excessive, though little more than just a minimal pain in the finger), there's little better way to confirm that my INR is in range. I rarely make any changes in medication - but have when my INR dropped below 2.0. I've been careful to be conservative with dosing changes, tried to calculate my weekly dosage into equal dosages from day to day, and am a lot more comfortable than I would be with these 'clinics' or 'professionals.'
This isn't bragging. I'm making no claims of superiority. I just feel that I'm in better hands when I'm in my own hands than when I trust my anticoagulation to others who are content with monthly (or bi-monthly) testing, and who might even insist on a new range that, to me, seems to be ASKING for trouble. Personally, I feel a lot more comfortable at the high end of my range than I do anywhere near the low end.
Get yourself a meter. Test weekly. I hope that your MD is comfortable with self-testing. Shave (or don't shave) with whatever device you are most comfortable using (but be careful).
I'm sure that others here will agree with the absolute value of self-testing. I'm sure that many would agree with the benefit of weekly testing (versus monthly or less frequent testing).
ski girl
Well-known member
Coumadin manager?? Bwahahahaha. I've been on warfarin for almost two years now and NO-ONE has ever managed my doses/INR, or even asked about it. Maybe we're a bit more lax here down under. I'd get pretty annoyed if someone tried to manage me now!
Here in the United States, they seem to think that people are too stupid to manage their own dosing. Possibly, they figure that 'services' can charge obscene amounts of money to call a doctor/manager with your reported INR. They would also like to require a doctor's prescription before you can get a meter (and, in some cases, the strips), and try to figure any way possible so that doctors or 'services' get as much money out of the system as possible. In some cases (as noted in my previous message), this comes at the expense of logic or good management.
Hell, you still need a prescription for warfarin (unless you buy it from another country), so you should be able to demonstrate to a doctor that you've got the sense to self-test and self-manage. If you're smart, you keep a diary of dosage and test results, both for your own information and to prove to the warfarin prescriber that you know what you're doing. If you fail at dosing or testing, it should be pretty clear, pretty quickly, that you need a clinic or doctor to help manage your dosing. For many of us, the insult of having someone else 'manage' your anticoagulation is something that many of us avoid.
Hell, you still need a prescription for warfarin (unless you buy it from another country), so you should be able to demonstrate to a doctor that you've got the sense to self-test and self-manage. If you're smart, you keep a diary of dosage and test results, both for your own information and to prove to the warfarin prescriber that you know what you're doing. If you fail at dosing or testing, it should be pretty clear, pretty quickly, that you need a clinic or doctor to help manage your dosing. For many of us, the insult of having someone else 'manage' your anticoagulation is something that many of us avoid.
pellicle
Professional Dingbat, Guru and Merkintologist
call me cynical, but I suspect its something like:
a) wanting to milk more money out of either the client or their insurance
b) worried about litigation
c) both of a OR b above
IF they were more intelligent, and were actually worried about litigation, I suspect that they would WANT to run INR tests weekly. It would be more money for the labs/doctors, etc. and would protect them from the inevitable (though still apparently not used) charges of poor medical practice by NOT effectively monitoring their patients.
Once the legal system realizes that MONTHLY testing is ineffective, and that it may be argued that if a person had been tested WEEKLY, the causes of stroke or hemorrhage would be reduced because changes in INR can be caught in time to help, the medical community will HAVE to pay attention, and move to weekly testing.
In my mind, testing once a month - or even less often - is a hazardous practice that isn't supported by the knowledge of the warfarin half life, and isn't consistent with the recommendations of at least one meter manufacturer. The medical community is AT RISK OF LITIGATION if it doesn't start to consider more frequent testing.
Once the legal system realizes that MONTHLY testing is ineffective, and that it may be argued that if a person had been tested WEEKLY, the causes of stroke or hemorrhage would be reduced because changes in INR can be caught in time to help, the medical community will HAVE to pay attention, and move to weekly testing.
In my mind, testing once a month - or even less often - is a hazardous practice that isn't supported by the knowledge of the warfarin half life, and isn't consistent with the recommendations of at least one meter manufacturer. The medical community is AT RISK OF LITIGATION if it doesn't start to consider more frequent testing.
pellicle
Professional Dingbat, Guru and Merkintologist
actually I was thinking from the perspective of checking out an managing ones-self rather than going to a clinic which charges through the nose for it
Agian
Well-known member
My first cardiologist told me that 1% of patients on warfarin have an 'event', per patient-year (whatever that means). I suspect this refers to people that have infrequent INR tests. I asked my GP about Warfarin. He told me he doesn't have a lot of valve-replacement patients, but lots with AF on Warfarin. He told me that once their INR is stable, they only need a blood test every six weeks! I suspect that a lot of 'events' (clots, haemorrhage) relate to wide INR variations between infrequent testing and, dare I say, mismanagement of dosing. Say I go in for my six-weekly blood test today and my INR is 1.8. My GP increases my dose by 1mg and tells me to come back in a fortnight 'Just to be on the safe side.' Scary stuff.
The information you guys indirectly provide to others, whilst discussing this amongst yourselves, is invaluable.
Home managing seems to be the way to go.
From what I remember, there was a previous thread about electric shavers. I got the impression that there was no urgency to dispose of the blade. I was chatting with a fellow the other day about Warfarin. He told me that cutting yourself whilst shaving was no big deal. 'I bruise easier. That's it.'
Knowledge is power.
The information you guys indirectly provide to others, whilst discussing this amongst yourselves, is invaluable.
Home managing seems to be the way to go.
From what I remember, there was a previous thread about electric shavers. I got the impression that there was no urgency to dispose of the blade. I was chatting with a fellow the other day about Warfarin. He told me that cutting yourself whilst shaving was no big deal. 'I bruise easier. That's it.'
Knowledge is power.
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