gut flora in hospitals

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pellicle

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Spotted this today:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2218280-just-three-days-in-hospital-can-change-the-bacteria-in-your-gut/

People treated for several days in an intensive care unit had their stomachs quickly colonised by harmful pathogens, tests show. Healthier gut microbes were pushed out – a shift that may have long-term effects after someone is discharged.
now I always advocate bringing in some KimChi with you to hospital when going in for surgery because after that surgery your bowel movement is often hard to get started. So this may indeed support that and add another dimension to understanding it.

 

pellicle

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Myself I prefer natural foods that do the job over chemistry where possible. As it happens I lived in Korea and like KimChi, so 1) I know I like it 2) I know it works.

Dont knock it if you haven't tried it.
 

rich01

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There appears to be a link between gut flora (microbiome) and heart disease. My guess is it is a major factor in some cases of heart disease. Combine it with a leaky gut and there is real damage happening. My best guess is it played a large role in my blocked arteries and calcified aortic valve. By the time I figured out what was causing my problems - weight, blood pressure, cholesterol, inflammation, etc, the damage was already done.
 

Astro

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Some teams are experimenting with faecal transplants. I am not sure that I would put my hand up for that without strong evidence. Definitely wouldn’t want to be the poor person actually administering it.
 

pellicle

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Hi at first clance I wondered where you hand was going up ;-)

Some teams are experimenting with faecal transplants. I am not sure that I would put my hand up for that without strong evidence. Definitely wouldn’t want to be the poor person actually administering it.
not sure I want to be taking it either.

Actually it makes me wonder (because I bet nobody has done the research) how much our Gut Flora is effected by where we live and work?

I know I used to get gut problems (was diagnosed with a grumblign appendix) but have not had that since leaving a particular work place (which has since been diagnosed with mold issues, decade or so after I left)
 

Protimenow

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The transplants may not be quite as nasty as they seem. It's broken down (I think) into a somewhat drinkable liquid - and doesn't take a huge amount to be effective. (Of course, I guess you can cut out the middleman and just eat a hot dog or two).

I'm envisioning a day when a particular person is shown to have an unusually beneficial mix of beneficial bacteria - his feces will be studied, patented, and he'll get a royalty for each person treated with it. Can't you imagine what a great annuity that would be for this lucky person? And can't you appreciate how he or she defines where all this passive income originally came from?
 

rich01

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The transplants may not be quite as nasty as they seem. It's broken down (I think) into a somewhat drinkable liquid - and doesn't take a huge amount to be effective. (Of course, I guess you can cut out the middleman and just eat a hot dog or two).

I'm envisioning a day when a particular person is shown to have an unusually beneficial mix of beneficial bacteria - his feces will be studied, patented, and he'll get a royalty for each person treated with it. Can't you imagine what a great annuity that would be for this lucky person? And can't you appreciate how he or she defines where all this passive income originally came from?
I think they are already looking at that with some of the existing primitive tribes.
 

Astro

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It is unclear to me whether:
1) altered gut flora creates disease
2) disease alters gut flora
3) both (what I suspect)

The classic example is helibacter pylori creating gastric ulcers. No one thought that gastric ulcers could be treated with antibiotics until an Australian scientist decided to drink helibacter pylori to test his hypothesis. This gut flora research has the potential to help a lot of people. It is not impossible that inflammation created by altered gut flora could contribute to valves (native, prosthetic) wearing out. I don’t think that there is enough evidence yet for any gut flora treatment but I’ll watch this research topic.
 

Protimenow

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In the United States, probiotics are a big business. The idea that you're supplementing your gut bacteria with a large number of beneficial bacteria is a big deal here. The 'wrong' types can make you sick. The 'right' types of bacteria enhance wellness and do a lot of other good things for you.

What they don't explain is this: if these bacterial normally live in the gut, why do you have to take them every day?
 

Astro

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There is a big business selling these products regardless of whether they work. Even if high quality studies show they don’t work, the market continues. Advertising is more effective than evidence.
 

pellicle

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There is a big business selling these products regardless of whether they work. Even if high quality studies show they don’t work, the market continues.
such as this one: https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2019/04/16/study-finds-no-benefit-for-dietary-supplements/

The study, published in the Annals of Internal Medicine, also uncovered some evidence suggesting that certain supplements might even be harmful to health when taken in excess
big $$$ in supplements
 

rich01

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In the United States, probiotics are a big business. The idea that you're supplementing your gut bacteria with a large number of beneficial bacteria is a big deal here. The 'wrong' types can make you sick. The 'right' types of bacteria enhance wellness and do a lot of other good things for you.

What they don't explain is this: if these bacterial normally live in the gut, why do you have to take them every day?
I just finished reading a series of blog posts that fully answers that question. I spent the last 4 years researching what caused my high BP, high cholesterol, obesity, fatigue, aortic stenosis, blocked arteries, etc. Eventually, I came to many of the same conclusions the author of these posts did, but he presents it in a much more thorough and detailed manner than I ever could. The one area I think is important that he didn't cover is genetic SNPs that effect digestion and metabolizm of fats, and production of proteins that are used to produce ATP.


If anyone has questions, I will do my best to try to answer them.
 

Keithl

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I am a huge probiotic person. I have a daily yogurt as well as a GT's Living Kombucha. I also eat a lot of salad with onions as onions are a great prebiotic. My gut and digestive system have really been great since I started as I used to have gerd which is mostly gone to the point where I don’t take meds for it anymore.
 

dwhist

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I had a few diverticulitis attacks and ended up having surgery to remove a foot of damaged intestine 2 years ago. They used the Davinci Robot. They had me in an accelerated program and I was out of hospital in two days eating solids. The night before surgery they had me take 3 rounds of some nasty antibiotics. When I was up the next day after surgery, I was to start chewing gum as much as I could. I am thinking this helped get digestive juices going to get things going again.
 
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