ajc1991
Well-known member
I was just wondering if anyone has noticed whether Vitamin K2 interferes with their INR? Does it have the same affect as Vitamin K?
Thank you in advance
Thank you in advance
Does Vitamin K2 interfere with Coumadin or affect INR?
- Thread starter ajc1991
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pellicle
Professional Dingbat, Guru and Merkintologist
It depends
It's different from person to person and I suspect other aspects of diet play a role.
I recommend eating a good healthy diet, test weekly and make adjustments as required.
Test and know thyself. It just works.
It's different from person to person and I suspect other aspects of diet play a role.
I recommend eating a good healthy diet, test weekly and make adjustments as required.
Test and know thyself. It just works.
For me, there was little (if any) change when I started taking vitamin K2 several years ago. My INR is pretty stable.
I have noticed that Vitamin K2 in the form of MK-7 affects INR (lowers it with about the same effect as Vitamin K1) whereas vitamin K2 in the form of MK-4 does not. That is just my experience. As pellicle said, everyone is different. Your mileage may vary.
-Dana
I haven't noticed any change. I don't know if my K2 is MK-4 or MK-7.
I take 180mcg of K2 (MK-7). My multivitamin (Centrum Men 50+) has about 60mcg of K1.
Does it affect my INR? Maybe.
I know that’s not much help. But, I wanted to at least share that I’m taking K consistently and not having any issues.
Does it affect my INR? Maybe.
I know that’s not much help. But, I wanted to at least share that I’m taking K consistently and not having any issues.
Rather than guessing what effects taking K2 (or K1) are having on your INR testing after taking the supplement (or eating the greens) can give the best answer.
I realize that this doesn't really answer the question -- K1 can effect INR, K2 - maybe (but not for me and others here). Even if K1 affects INR, if you're consistent with your dose of K, you should be able to adjust your warfarin dosage to compensate for the effects.
I realize that this doesn't really answer the question -- K1 can effect INR, K2 - maybe (but not for me and others here). Even if K1 affects INR, if you're consistent with your dose of K, you should be able to adjust your warfarin dosage to compensate for the effects.
A couple of months ago, I started taking Vitamin K1 100mcg daily. This was in addition to the 75mcg K1 in the Multivitamin and 200mcg of K2 MK-7 that I'd been taking for some considerable time. I've noticed little change in my INR / Dosing - it only reduced my INR by around 0.1 and even that may be due to natural variation.
My reason for supplementation was articles like this:
Vitamin K Intake and Atherosclerotic Cardiovascular Disease in the Danish Diet Cancer and Health Study
My daily supplementation total comprises:
Vitamin K1 175mcg and K2 MK7 200 mcg
(made up of Vitamin K2 MK7 200mcg, Solgar Vitamin K1 100mcg, Mulivitamin with Vitamin K1 75mcg.)
I'm not suggesting this is appropriate for everyone - your body and its reactions may be significantly different to mine. Caution is definitely advised.
My reason for supplementation was articles like this:
Vitamin K Intake and Atherosclerotic Cardiovascular Disease in the Danish Diet Cancer and Health Study
My daily supplementation total comprises:
Vitamin K1 175mcg and K2 MK7 200 mcg
(made up of Vitamin K2 MK7 200mcg, Solgar Vitamin K1 100mcg, Mulivitamin with Vitamin K1 75mcg.)
I'm not suggesting this is appropriate for everyone - your body and its reactions may be significantly different to mine. Caution is definitely advised.
pellicle
Professional Dingbat, Guru and Merkintologist
seeing this always makes me wonder "what happened to adulthood in the modern world".
Yes, I tend to also wonder...
I guess I'm so used to seeing this sort of disclaimer that I added my own "just in case".
Having said that, it would be relatively easy for a casual reader to not realise the depth of self-testing and INR management experience that a number of us have accumulated.
I guess I'm so used to seeing this sort of disclaimer that I added my own "just in case".
Having said that, it would be relatively easy for a casual reader to not realise the depth of self-testing and INR management experience that a number of us have accumulated.
I don't think that a disclaimer that you added is a bad thing -- I've used similar disclaimers in some of my posts, simply to shield myself from any legal liability. This is a litigious society, with a handful (barrelful?) of hungry attorneys looking for new targets.
Although people on this forum are motivated to gain information, to share experiences, or to help others, not everyone realizes this. A disclaimer just provides a bit of comfort to the poster.
Although people on this forum are motivated to gain information, to share experiences, or to help others, not everyone realizes this. A disclaimer just provides a bit of comfort to the poster.
carolinemc
Well-known member
It can from a supplement Vitamin K or from other sources. Like meal replacement, for it will have a higher concentration of Vitamin K. Also, if you have to take Antibiotics, it can also affect your INR. You can easily take a Multivitamin that has Vitamin K, and it will not affect your INR. Also, certain foods with higher concentration of Vitamin K like Green leafy vegetables like lettuce, you have to be consistent in eating in a regular diet. You can also ask a dietician to help you learn the foods you can be careful of or how to be more consistent. Good luck in find your way around this. It is hard to do, but is doable. Constituency is the key. Good luck.
pellicle
Professional Dingbat, Guru and Merkintologist
I had a boss who used to say:
some people have a years experience, most have a day but repeated 365 times.
delucadana
New member
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2023
- Messages
- 4
Vitamin K1 definitely lowers INR in a dose-related manner. It's just a matter of degree. If it didn't, it would not be the go-to antidote to warfarin overdose. So why don't some people notice it? With small doses its effects are easily overwhelmed by confounding variables such as medications or herbs that enhance warfarin or inhibit the CYP pathways involved in warfarin metabolism. Even exercise can affect warfarin potential.
Being a retired engineer, I developed a cumbersome spreadsheet that tries to predict INR based on the effects of the major influencers (warfarin dose and vitamin K intake, mostly, because other variables like alcohol consumption were less impactful). It relies heavily on accurate daily user inputs of same, which is hard to do reliably. In the end, a better prediction was had from just recording a a couple months worth of data and then using multi-variable regression analysis in Excel for INR predictions. I did this for six years and then realized my behavior had devolved to just trying to get the same level of vitamin K every day, which is what the recommended approach is to begin with. It helped me though, to use the food database with vitamin K amounts listed for each type of food in my diet including home-prepared meals that contain a combination of vitamin K-containing ingredients like soups or salads.
If it worked out maybe an app could be developed that would help manage INR however it is not simple enough for that to work.
Being a retired engineer, I developed a cumbersome spreadsheet that tries to predict INR based on the effects of the major influencers (warfarin dose and vitamin K intake, mostly, because other variables like alcohol consumption were less impactful). It relies heavily on accurate daily user inputs of same, which is hard to do reliably. In the end, a better prediction was had from just recording a a couple months worth of data and then using multi-variable regression analysis in Excel for INR predictions. I did this for six years and then realized my behavior had devolved to just trying to get the same level of vitamin K every day, which is what the recommended approach is to begin with. It helped me though, to use the food database with vitamin K amounts listed for each type of food in my diet including home-prepared meals that contain a combination of vitamin K-containing ingredients like soups or salads.
If it worked out maybe an app could be developed that would help manage INR however it is not simple enough for that to work.
ScribeWithALancet
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2019
- Messages
- 84
This is what I did several years ago. I built up my k1 and K2 (K4 version) slowly to 30 mcg each. my warfarin dosage slowly increased from about 4 to 13.75. I kept track of the relationship between my meter (CoagSense) and my health plans lab test measurements and they stayed about the same. The lab did not change their chemicals during the time of my correlations so the Y=MX+b correlation remained the same (and luckily remains the same). The doctor who told me how to do this warned me strongly that Labs have their chemicals changed by the purchasing department without being warned that they should recalibrate so that if my numbers stopped matching it MIGHT be a bad meter but it MIGHT also might be a change in chemicals by the lab and that the first the lab might know about it was when they were asked about it.
Walk in Peace,
ScribeWithALancet
I have found that vit K does lower my INR......not sure about the K1, K2 or K?. I know this because about a year ago I added an 8oz BOOST (vit K, 25% daily allowance) to my daily diet and my INR dropped and stayed low and somewhat erratic after starting BOOST. After playing around with dosage adjustments for a couple of months I changed from 5mg to 6mg daily warfarin. My INR came into my happy spot, at about 3. My full range is 2.5-3.5 INR and I never get concerned so long as my INR stays anywhere within range, or close......unless I see a trend develop.
Warfarin management, for me, is very simple:*
1. take the pill
2. test routinely
3. adjust slowly if I see a trend develop.
For me, and I've done it a long time, ACT is a minor irritant and I truly believe in the quote "Adjust the warfarin, not the diet".......within reason of course LOL
*I add this for the new folks who come on this forum with their eyes glazed over about the "horrors" of anti-coagulants.....normally it is not difficult.
Warfarin management, for me, is very simple:*
1. take the pill
2. test routinely
3. adjust slowly if I see a trend develop.
For me, and I've done it a long time, ACT is a minor irritant and I truly believe in the quote "Adjust the warfarin, not the diet".......within reason of course LOL
*I add this for the new folks who come on this forum with their eyes glazed over about the "horrors" of anti-coagulants.....normally it is not difficult.
carolinemc
Well-known member
It is easier to manage than other things. Just adjust and retest in a few days. And my range is set 2.0 to 3.0. Every person is set different. What messes me up is antibiotics. But we dose and test a few days later. My lab uses the same machine as home testers.
