Do You Know About Natto?

[Nick Yuki]

I take Warfarin (Coumadin) like some of you, and, as you see, I live in Japan.
I am afraid that most of you Western people don't know about Natto.
Natto is fermented soybeans, and it is a very popular food in Japan.
And it might smell bad for you. It might look bad. It might be unappetizing. Or it might look delicious.
No, I don't care how you feel about it. The important thing is: We Warfarin takers can never eat natto. All the doctors and pharmaceutists tell us not to eat natto if you take Warfarin! It's dangerous. A lot of vitamin K in it. More than anything, I tell you. I'm not lying. Spinach? Broccoli? Oh, they are no match for natto. That's what we who take Warfarin are informed in Japan. We know we mustn't eat it.
But, as you see, Western people--they come to Japan, and, alas, some ignorant Japanese innocently recommend them to eat natto because it's great to their health (It's immensely good, really, for non-Warfarin takers. One of the greatest foods on the earth, I suppose). And what if they eat it?
I must warn you, as a representative, that you must never eat natto if you take Warfarin, whatever they tell you, when you fly to Japan.
There is no warning on the package of natto. And most of Japanese people belive it's healthy. Never eat it. Never taste it

 

[geebee]

Welcome and thanks for thinking of us. I am not sure we have any other members from Japan. Would love to get there to visit some day.

I looked into Natto on the food site (links below) and here is what I found.

Although Natto has a somewhat high Vit.K content, there are certainly foods higher in Vit.K (spinach, broccoli, cabbage to name a few). Here are 2 links to look at. The first one is general Vit.K content for foods, the second for Natto.

http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-000104000000000000000-w1.html

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-001-02s03do.html

One of the things we go by here is Ross' mantra "dose the diet, don't diet the dose". In other words, eat what you like, just be consistent so you can adjust your coumadin level around what you eat.

Of course if someone has Vit.K binges, it can wreak havok with INR levels so that is definitely something to watch out for. But, if you eat foods high in Vit.K regularly, your coumadin will be adjusted to those foods. I would hate to think you were avoiding soy beans of any kind because they are so delicious and good for you.

Take care.

 

[Nick Yuki]

Thanks

Thanks

Hello, Geebee. Thanks for the quick reply.
I should have explained about it better.
Well, I don't know about America, but, In Japan, there's a little book called something like 'Warfarin Book' for us Warfarin takers. In the book there're foods' names and such. And we can always look up a food which seems to have a lot of Vitamin K. And natto has not high vitamin K in it, I know.
Well, before my doctor let me out of the hospital, he said, "You can eat and drink anything moderately. But don't ever eat natto. Because natto creates vitamin K after you have consumed it, in your bowel." He said something like that, and he's not a joker.
And I truly believe it. Of course, I ain't no doctor,or a scientist, so I can't verify anything. But, you know, I thought I'd have to tell y'all that the Warfarin takers in Japan never eat natto.
I was a student in America some years ago, so I know there's not natto there. But, in case you fly to Japan, I thought you should know about it.
I didn't intend to worry or upset anybody.
Well, that's that, Geebee. Thanks.

 

[Ross]

Gina I don't know if you read this one or not, but check this out. It might well be good advice we are getting here. I'm hoping Al has heard of this also.
------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.gaia21.net/natto/natto.htm

Prevention of Heart Attacks, Strokes and Senility
Pyrazine is an enzyme that gives natto its distinctive smell. It prevents blood from clotting. Nattokinase is another kind of enzyme discovered by Dr. Hiroyuki Sumi, now a professor at Kurashiki Art Science University, during his research in 1990 at Chicago University. As its name implies it is produced by the natto fermentation process, and is contained in natto's sticky part. It is very powerful agent that dissolves blood clots. Blood clots obstruct the flow of blood, leading to heart attacks, strokes and senility among other diseases. It is said that 60 percent of cause for senility among Japanese elders is due to blood clots in their brain.

Therefore natto, with pyrazine preventing blood clotting and nattokinase dissolving it once it forms, is very powerful natural medicine preventing and possibly treating brain infarction, cardiac infarction and brain apoplexy. An enzyme called urokinase, extracted from urine, is being used as a drug to dissolve blood clots, costing 20,000 yen (about US$200) per dose, but it only lasts for about 30 minutes. In contrast, just 100g of natto gives the same effectiveness at a fraction of cost (about US$1). Moreover, once absorbed in our body, nattokinase continues to be effective for about 8 hours possibly because it has fewer detrimental side effects than urokinase.

Natto has been a staple food in the Japanese diet for a very long period of time; at least 1,000 years. It is popular among the people who live in the eastern part of Japan. The recent per capita consumption of natto in Japan is about 2 kg annually. Natto has not been known for any negative side effects so far. It is also not particularly known as allergen. Those who are taking wafarin for preventing blood clots and heart disease, however, are advised not to eat natto because of its high content of the Vitamin K may impedes wafarin's effectiveness. In Japan advising patients not to eat Vitamin K rich food such as cabbage and chlorella while under wafarin medication is a standard practice.

Vitamin K tends to congeals blood. Natto is very rich in Vitamin K as well as pyrazine and nattokinase that prevents or dissolves blood clots. So natto has contradicting medicinal properties. One explanation for why our body takes so long to neutralize nattokinase without being negatively affected is that it is not "foreign" to our body. If that is the case, our body may be able to selectively use Vitamin K for congealing blood, and pyrazine and nattokinase for preventing or dissolving blood clots as necessary. That may explain the reason there is no report of natto causing uncontrolled bleeding.

Some doctors in Japan started prescribing natto instead of wafarin on an experimental basis. Some patients with retinal-vein-blockage-disease, a disease causing blood clots to occur in retinal veins and hemorrhaging in the retina , were instructed to eat natto twice a week, and had very positive results. (Yuhobika, March 1998 issue)

Professor Hiroyuki Sumi says brain infarction and myocardial infarction tend to occur around 10:00am on Monday mornings. So he says the most effective time to eat natto is during the Sunday supper. Since nattokinase enzyme is sensitive to heat and loses its effectiveness above 70 degrees C, eating raw natto gives the best protection.

Lecithin and linoleic acid, rich in soybeans, purify the blood. Soybeans' protein preserves the elasticity of blood vessels, and prevents coronary heart disease, brain apoplexy and high blood pressure as a result. It follows that if natto, that is made from soybeans, is eaten as a staple food, these typical adult diseases may be prevented or improved.

Harvard University's 1989 research on 20,000 male American doctors concluded that one aspirin a day reduces heart failure due to blot clotting by 44 percent. However, recent research says that eating soybean products every day has the same effect. Aspirin tends to make blood easily soluble, and it is known to cause bleeding even from a healthy stomach. I would tend to think it is not a good idea to take such drug everyday even the mainstream medical authority recommend it.

According to a Japanese joint research by the Ministry of Health and Gifu Medical University on 1,242 male and 3,596 female subjects from Takayama City's 31, 000 residents, the more the subjects eat soybean products, the lower their cholesterol levels.

 

[hensylee]

Mornin, Nick. Nice to see you.

Soy products have become very popular in the U.S. but I haven't heard of Natto. Is it a prepared product? How is it presented? In nearly every large food store there is a section for soy products. There are soy hamburgers, soy weiners, there are packages of the pressed soy that you add to other foods and they take on the taste of the other food and become "part" of it. If it's popular in Japan, it will appear in our stores eventually and maybe we need to look into it.

Soy products are touted as good for everybody, but I don't recall about warfarin patients. Sounds like you have some good info and maybe others will come in and have some remarks.

you said this: I must warn you, as a representative,

You are a representative of what? A company? or a warfarin user?

Welcome to the forum. (sounds like maybe you attended a southern U.S. university)

 

[Ross]

Nick welcome to the forum. We, as U.S. Coumadin patients, have become skeptical of everything that we are told not to eat. Not because we don't believe what your telling us, but because the medical field in the states lack a good understanding of how Coumadin works. I've yet to find a Doctor on the same page with it's use! Basically, we look out for ourselves because we've been told every urban legend and piece of nonsense available. Some people have been scared to death by the stuff they've been told and most of it's not true at all. Pardon us for what appears to be to an outsider, bickering, but this is how we Coumadin patients test things.

 

[Nick Yuki]

Natto

Natto

Thank you very much. I'm glad that you guys are reacting.
Well, I warned you about eating Natto as a representative of all the Warfarin takers in Japan, because I see there's nobody from Japan in this site. Sombody had to announce Natto is bad for you, I thought.
Well, Natto is very famous in Japan. There is nobody who doesn't know about it here, and I presume without no paticular reason that Natto may go out of Japan someday, to the U.S., perhaps. But I really don't know how you'll eat it. It's surely hard to explain, but, if you could see it and taste it, you'd understand very easily what I've been telling you. There must be rice when you eat Natto. And I suppose you guys don't eat rice like Japanese people do (There are very similar foods to Natto in Korea, China and some other East Asian countries, where they eat rice like Japanese people do). I wish I could show you how it looks like and tastes like.There must be rice, I tell you.
Well, one good plan is this: You go to a Japanese restaurant near you with a friend who ain't taking Warfarin. And ask if there's Natto. And see him or her eating it (I hope Natto is on the menu I didn't see Natto in any Japanese restaurants there, around 1999. Only sushi or sashimi and something like that. But times are changing).
About other soy bean products. There's a lot of soy bean products. They seem okay. I can not be certain, but Natto is the only thing that is bad for Warfarin takers, the doctors say.
Well, I want you to understand that I don't mean to upset or worry you. If you don't come to Japan, Natto won't ever be in front of you, I suppose.
But I see many foreigners in the city, and, since my valve is artificial and I have to take Warfarin, I just started thinking of their valves too. What if his valve is artificial and he's taking Warfarin? Somebody told him about it? Or nobody did? What if some of his co-workers tell him Natto is good for him? What if that girl takes Warfarin and doesn't know about Natto's side effect for only Warfarin takers? My anxieity rose.
Well, that's the reason I wrote about it. Thank you all.

 

[Ross]

While Nattos Vit K content isn't all that bad, it's the other chemicals after fermentation that I would think would really make INR go nuts.

 

[catwoman]

I've enjoyed eating Japanese food since 1972 -- long before it became popular in the U.S.; had sashimi, went on bento box picnics with wives of U.S. and Japanese businessmen, even gave a New Year's Eve dinner party at my apartment featuring Japanese food I had prepared.

I'd love to go to Japan someday. My parents have been several times, my dad on business when he worked for Texas Instruments and then again as a tourist. He was able to jump the tour group and hop a subway with his camera, rode around shooting photos, found his way back to the tour group.

Since my MVR, I've been somewhat hesitant to eat much sushi. I like sushi, but I'm not enamored with it. I'm more concerned with the amount of nori used in it. From what I've seen on the internet, nori has far more vitamin K than many other foods I usually eat.

Any comments from anyone?

 

[geebee]

Certainly interesting info on the fermentation process once in the body. Obviously something to watch out for. Natto also sounds like a very interesting food, maybe not something I would want to try anyway.

Nick, I was not chastising you for writing. All of this type of information is important and appreciated. This forum is meant to cover all sides of issues and make sure we have all information possible.

I am sure most folks (especially those of us on coumadin) watch what we eat if we make diet changes (due to vacations, etc.) until we know how it will affect us. Luckily a lot of us have our own INR monitors we can use while traveling so we can make adjustments for unique foods.

Having the information about Natto is VERY helpful since it probably will make its way here eventually.

Marsha - I can attest to sushi and its affect on INR. I ate a lot of sushi when I lived in California and my coumadin dose was 35 mg/week compared to 25mg/week I now take living in Ohio (where there is no easy access to good sushi). But, again, I ate sushi regularly so my dose was adjusted to that "addiction".

 

[tobagotwo]

Supplement Warning for Warfarin users...

Supplement Warning for Warfarin users...

The nutraceutical companies have already found it, Ross. I'm sure there are many brands and formulations of this around by now. This is from a popular supplement site that I frequently use...

Ultra Nattozime 65 Mg 90 Caps

"An effective circulatory system health aid Inspired by the popular Japanese food, natto

"Contains a natural enzyme that promotes circulatory function by breaking down fibrin, a protein involved in blood clotting.

"Nattozime is a remarkably effective new circulatory aid. Developed by the National Enzyme Company, Nattozime is an all-natural enzyme supplement inspired by the popular Japanese health -food natto. For centuries, natto has been treasured by the Japanese as a health-promoting food, especially for the heart and circulatory health. Derived from the fungus Aspergillus oryzae, Nattozime is a natural enzyme supplement that has demonstrated the same fibrin- dissolving activity found in natto. Numerous studies have demonstrated that Nattozime has the ability to be absorbed through the intestinal tract and it can help promote healthy blood flow. It makes a valuable addition to any cardiovascular wellness program."

Do not use if you have a blood coagulation disorder and/or if you are taking any drug that affects blood coagulation, such as prescription vitamin K, heparin, or warfarin (Coumadin). Consult your healthcare provider before you use if you are taking prescription medications or if you are pregnant or nursing.

Best wishes,

 

[hensylee]

Thanks, Nick, you've opened up an entirely new page in ValveReplacement. Most of us have never heard of natto until you brought it to us.

 

[Blanche]

Learn something new everyday.

Learn something new everyday.

Thank you, Nick, I have never heard of Natto before. I find it very interesting that your doctor said that the natto causes more vitamin K to be produced in the intestine. I have always paid attention to the Vitamin K that is ingested and gave no thought to the Vitamin K that is produced in our own bodies in the intestine. That there is something that can "speed up" the production of Vitamin K in our bodies is an entirely new thought to me--something that I will be considering in future.

Kind regards,
Blanche

 

[MelissaM]

Niku-san -

Yookoso! Nihonjin desu ka? Eigo ga joozu desu ne! Watakushi no daigaku no senmon ga nihongo to nihon no bungaku de, ichi nen kan Waseda Daigaku de benkyo shimashita. Jaa, romaji ga yominikui desu kara, eigo ni shimashoo.

Anyone who eats natto is a little crazy. Like you said - it smells! Did you have your surgery in Japan? A friend of mine was studying to be a doctor when I lived there - he was at Keio University. I think of him often and wonder where he ended up.

Anyway, welcome to our little world.

Genki de,

Melissa

 

[nia]

Maybe this post is for the Recipes section?

Maybe this post is for the Recipes section?

Hello Nick. Thank you for bringing this up. I used to live in Japan (Yokohama) when I was small, before my family moved to the United States.

I love natto and eat it with rice, as a ?natto omellete,? or as a topping for a noodle soup. I hear it goes well with toasted bread also (according to my mother), but I haven?t had the guts to try it.

I?ve never seen natto being sold in the United States except in stores that specialize in selling Japanese foods. Natto can also come inside a rolled sushi (called ?natto maki?), or raw tuna/squid ?marinated? in natto (many Japanese restaurants serve this; called ?maguro natto (for tuna)? or ?ika natto (for squid)?), but if natto is used in a dish, the menu will most likely explicitly say so. It has a distinct smell, taste (and sort of this rotten aftertaste), and color (brown). It smells so fowl that accidentally eating it is probably not an option either?

I was in Japan this past summer, and remember hearing that you are not supposed to eat chlorella if you?re on warfarin? Now, I have no idea what kind of food that is, but I just realized that I will have to get anticoagulation therapy in the United States while eating mainly Japanese foods, and I could be oblivious to some culture-specific anticoagulation instructions. Then, I may have to keep wondering why my INR is so irregular...? That is a little scary.

 

[tobagotwo]

Chorella is an algae that is frequently sold as a natural supplement. It wouldn't be likely to show up on its own in food, unless it were in an avante-guarde health food store. (California comes to mind...)

Anything that lists aspergillis (or byproducts thereof) should probably stay off your list as well, as they seem to have the anti-fibrinogen properties found in natto.

Best wishes,

 

[Guest]

Natto probably isn't much worse than sauerkraut.

Soy milk lowers the INR rather dramatically. There was a thread with Dustybones about this not too long back.

I'm not sure what benefit there is from Aspergillis. It's that black mold that grows on old bread and probably the stuff in your shower if you live in a humid climate.

 

[Lisa in Katy]

Well, if I'd known that black stuff that grows in the shower was worth something, I wouldn't work so hard to get rid of it! Maybe I'll try bottling it next time I clean. Since all of this sounds so unappetizing, I can't imagine why anyone would eat it. My uncle used to eat this rotten cabbage stuff called something like Kim Chee. The smell alone would make me nauseous. When I was in elementary, sauerkraut was often served at lunch. It went straight into the milk carton as soon as it was empty. (Our teachers used to make us clean our trays before we could get dessert.) I've always figured that if you have to work to develop a taste for it, God probably didn't mean for us to eat it.

However, even though natto has vitamin K, it sounds as if the clot busting properties might actually be good for those of us on Coumadin. Who would like to volunteer for that study?

 

[McCranky]

natto shushi!

natto shushi!

I've been to Japan a few times and the last time was taken to a local sushi bar and urged by my Japanese friends to try natto sushi.'Oishi deska' they said. Personally, I thought it smelt like regurgitated vegetables but it tasted ok. I get my new valve within 4 weeks. My problem is that my partner has filled the garden with perpetual spinach.

I am interested in the spinach and wine diet and would like to know if anyone had done a study to balance out say 1 cup of spinach with, say 1,2 or 3 glasses of wine. Now that would be really use.

I am due for a new valve within 4 weeks.

 

[sharon]

Do you know about natto?

Do you know about natto?

Hi Nick,

Welcome to our site. Thank you for telling us about natto. Just to let everyone know I was just on our "Featured site" PT-INR.com and there was an article about natto's interaction with coumadin. I for one will avoid using it.

Al, according to the coumadin site they say that 1/2 cup of canned sauerkraut only contains 13 micrograms(mcg) of Vit K. That doesn't seem that much.

To the person asking about soy products - sorry I don't remember who that was - According to the coumadin site Tofu contains only 2 micrograms (mcg)of Vit K in 1/2 cup. I think that the fresh soybean itself has quite a bit more as does the soybean oil (193 mcg in 7 tblsps). Soy milk contains 3 mcg in 3.5 fl oz.

Sharon
St Judes aortic valve 4/11/97