Controversial-Petition to help Marine Accused of Cold Blooded Murder

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Ross

Well-known member
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Dec 15, 2001
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On The Hot Seat
Many of you saw on the news, the story of the platoon that went into a building in Fallujah and found one of the insurgents still alive, then shot him in the head. Well it appears the Marine is in bigtime trouble. If you'd like to sign this petition to congress to help this man out, please do. If you feel that what he did was in fact cold blooded murder, disregard.

There are 90717 signatures thus far as of this posting.

Marine Accused Of Cold Blooded Murder
 
Anyone watch Saving Private Ryan on ABC on Veteran's Day last week?

Remember the German prisoner the American platoon released because they couldn't take a prisoner with them on their mission to find Ryan?

Remember how the german came back later in the movie and killed one of the American's in a bloody knife fight?



Same situation.

In war, it's kill or be killed.


This wasn't a marine killing an innocent child or something. There were a group of men of fighting age hiding in a mosque. Weapons fire had come from that mosque against the marines. The marines fired back and eventually entered the mosque. One of the men inside was still alive, there were no arms visible to the marines (that doesn't mean much, they didn't have the time or luxury of searching for weapons) and they made a command decision based on what they knew at the moment:

They were fired upon by people inside the mosque.
They fired back.
They entered the mosque.
One of the people inside was still alive.

Kill or be killed.

Morals or not, the marines spend half their time fololowing the orders and half their time trying to survive unimaginable circumstances.

If he's in hot water, it's because someone made a political decision that says it looks better for the "powers that be" folks if they try this guy for dereliction of duty than gloss over it saying he was just doing his job.


Well he wasn't just doing his job, he was trying to ensure he'd live another day to fight for the rest of our sorry asses.


You can't second guess a marine's judgement in a situation like that after the fact. War sucks and sometimes very bad things happen. The marines didn't run screaming and shooting into a hospital filled with children. They entered a building that sheltered enemy combatants who were firing on the marines.

Oh yeah, and the guy was playing dead too. He was given plenty of opportunity to surrender. That's just as clear on the video that was broadcast. Why didn't he say, "I give up, I surrender"? He had the chance, even if he was armed he could have laid down his weapons and been taken into custody unharmed.
 
While I feel a need for the media to cover the war, I think it's time that they not be tagging along with the troops. All the reporting is one sided and doom and gloom. Sure it captures attention and ratings, but what the hell happened to honest reporting? How about both sides of the fence, by that, I mean the good as well as the bad. I'm tired of seeing stuff shown only partially and not getting the full story as to what is going on.
 
Ross>>That's a safety issue...


It's harder for an American journalist (or any other journalist for that matter, beyond MAYBE an Iraqi sympathizer) to tag along wiht the enemy to capture THEIR side of the story....


Occassionally I see photos from the Israli/Palestinian conflict that were taken from the Palastinian, rock thrown against Israli tanks, perspective but I think that's because the photographer shooting the assault has gotten caught in the middle of the firefight.

Generally, if you're shooting something like that, I wanna be where the most firepower is. I'd MUCH rather be among the police snipers surrounding a house in a hostage situation (yes, I've shot those before) than inside the house that's being surrounded.

Granted, being inside that house might make for a MUCH more interesting photo, but there's a point where, even for me, common sense takes over and says, "If you do this, you WILL get shot at..."



Even unbiased journalism has it's limitations.


You may have noticed division insignias and such on the troops in the ABC report were electronically blocked out in the footage that was aired.

An agreement is made up beforehand between the military officials and the network that says, you can shoot this stuff, shoot whatever you want and show whatever you want, however you need to keep the identity of the units hidden for their protection. If you don't, we won't give you opportunities like this in the future, or worse, we'll give it to your competition next time.

That's a line that's generally respected and agreed upon. I shoot that way too. I got to ride along with an ambulance crew this summer with the agreement that I wouldn't shoot patients in a way that they could be identified later on, no faces. Fine. I get to go wheverever the paramedics go and shoot whatever I want as long as I maintain the confidentiality of the patient, that's reasonable and the story isn't about them anyways, it's about the paramedics. I also have to be careful over shooting license plates or the exteriors of houses, especially house numbers and street addresses or other landmarks. There's still plenty to shoot within those constraints.


Chances are, you're not going to find Iraqi insurgents as agreeable with allowing you to shadow them as they fight the occupation. They're going to want to keep their locations secret, their methods secret, their planning secret, their identies and weapons and just about every other aspect of their operation hidden from the general public, especially their opponents, US forces. You certainly wouldn't find an "unbiased" journalist present for the beheading of a hostage taken by Iraqi insurgents... Not unless his head was going to be the next one to get cut off.... :(
 
I read and signed the petition. BTW, my local ABC affiliate did not show Private Ryan on Veterans Day. :rolleyes:
 
I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but electronic petitions are most often not viewed by those they are intended for. This is because they assume people can resign, or sign under different names. If you really want to make a difference you need to pick up the phone and call someone.

I receive an email every two weeks from the Wall Street Journal entitled "The Good News From Iraq". I'll start posting it here. I think you would be amazed at what is going on despite the terrorists (re:insurgents) and their actions. Once I get my laptop back, I'll see if I can locate some previous editions. This is a country working their darnedest to be free and self-sufficient.

The media has an "If it bleeds, it leads" philosophy. Not to mention that I think a lot of people in our media have a vested interest in continuing to have us believe that Iraq is totally lost. There's no way they even want people to remotely think that maybe Bush was justified in going into Iraq. It's tough over there and bad things are happening, but a lot of very good things are as well and the majority of the media doesn't see fit to inform us of the good. It's not fair to our service men and women to have a their country believe that what they are fighting for is a useless cause. We've been there, done that. Who the heck wants to work a job that everyone thinks is a lost cause.

I am penpals with some soldiers in Iraq and I can tell you that they don't want the "We hate what you're doing, but we support you anyway" attitude. They want your support and they want to know that you believe they can succeed. One wrote me and said that when he hears "I don't support the war, but I support our troups." it's like hearing "I don't like the fact that you are a bank robber, but I'm proud of how good you are at it." Don't forget, these men and women chose the military. For whatever reason, they felt it was the job for them. Some may not like where they are, but they still want to feel that what they are doing is worth it.

I'm very afraid that this soldier who shot the terrorist in the mosque will become the victim of the media making this a public spectacle. I'm fearful that the Marines will have to make him a scape goat. I wish the media would move on and let the military handle this. We were not there. We have not been there to see bodies planted with boobie traps, or wounded terrorists making one last suicidal effort to take out more of our troups. Saddam had an official Rapist in his cabinet. They recently found a mass grave with nothing but women and children. Yet one soldier is the focus and reason why the US is worse than Saddam. I think our media needs to get some perspective.
 
Karlynn your not bursting anyones bubble and yes, the phone would work a bit better, but it's stll going to be hard to ignore 100,000 people. It might be enough to set the Congressmen to petition their constituents on what they deem appropriate punishment. Wishful thinking anyway.

Harpoon I guess I should have been a little more clear. I don't want them covering the other sides stuff. I just want to see some of the good that is being done by our troops besides all the killing. What about the humanitarian aid? What about those troops that don't even have toilet paper? You know, those kinds of things that I'm sure our government doesn't want us to see or know about because it undermines what they want us to believe. I know you know what I mean. I'm sure you've been silenced before by some governmental entity while trying to do your job. ;)
 
I am also on the soldier's side and I think he made a split second decision to that was the correct one under the circusmstances. Most of us have no idea what he had been through and it is kill or be killed in that situation.
However, I don't agree with Karylynn I think it was about supporting a war if you don't believe in it. I personally have not made up my mind yet. I am sort of a fence straddler on this situation. But I know from history that there is usually more behind wars than the general public knows about. And just because a few soldiers believe it doesn't mean eveyone has to. That is like saying that no matter what the political powers do we are behind it. I do have a mind to think and I can make up my own mind and still support our troops because of who they are and what they are fighting for. But what they are fighting for may not necessarily be what the government is fighting for. They don't tell soldiers or discuss it with them.
I happen to know a few men my husband being one of them and I know for a fact some things that just not true about that war that we see on tv and read. And I wish the best to this soldier and all the others. And I do hope we win this conflict simply because we are in it. And I do pray that President Bush was justified and called it correctly.
 
May I add that I wrote that sentence incorrectly. I was talking about another war that my husband was in. The vietnam war. Sorry.
I don't feel the media should back off. If it weren't for them we might not know things. I do however think that they should report correctly. And I don't think our government should bow to outside pressure. They should judge this man as if it was never reported to the public. And then the media should report that to the public also.
 
NOT cold blooded murder, and friendly fire

NOT cold blooded murder, and friendly fire

It's war. You kill the enemy before they kill you.

A while back several Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan were accidentally killed by US pilots. Canadian soldiers are volunteers. Volunteer for the armed forces--you're going in harms way.

Those airmen should not have been persecuted and neither should this soldier.
 
Ross, you are right, it may sway some and be hard to ignore. I just know that they can't use it in any arguments.

I think it's a thin line we walk between supporting the war and supporting our troups. From the soldiers I've had contact with, they know they are supported, but they also feel like it's the parent/child situation of "I may not love what you've done, but I love you." Yes, they feel loved, but it doesn't make them feel good about themselves and their duty. Those I've corresponded with don't view pity as support.

I don't think the media should not report things. I think they should just report them and allow us to think for ourselves. I think they should give news logical weight, not sensational weight. I also think they have a duty to report the good things, and let's face it, they aren't! I think you will be very surprised at what is going on for the good in Iraq (once I get my dumb laptop back that has the past emails. I really hate computers that don't work. :mad: ) The Iraqi people aren't sitting on their thumbs over there. They are working hard and pressing forward and trying to establish a free country. Did you know that there are a group of Iraqi's traveling to different countries to observe their democratic processes so they can develop the process they believe will suit Iraq best? Did you know there are more schools open now than when Saddam was in power? There is so much going on that is good. I get my bi-weekly email (all linked to sites where the official information is found, it's not just conjecture) and I become so frustrated that our media is leading us to believe that this is another Vietnam and that there is no hope. There absolutely is bad stuff going on. That can't be denied nor should it be. But in essence, the media is denying the good stuff by not reporting it. They are not giving us the option to cheer for the victories, that in turn give our soldiers the moralle boost they so richly deserve.

One soldier wrote me "This is not another Vietnam. I don't want to come home to people thinking I served a lost cause and I fear that is exactly what they will think."
 
A thought,

A thought,

What if we wrote to the news stations, snail or email? I heard once that each letter recieved essentially counts as 100. That they figure there are 100 people with the same opinion for each letter they receive. I don't mean for this poor marine ( petion signed Ross, Thanks!) but to tell those news stations that we want to hear some balance in their reporting, give us some of the good information. Karlynn, I have been bothered by this as well. I would like for these news organizations to treat me as though I have a brain, instead of spoon feeding me the reality they want me to believe. It seems journalistically irresponsible they way they report on this war. Why wouldn't they want to present the good things too? Don't they want America to be portrayed as good? Instead they add to the divide within our country and to the dismay of the rest of the world. :mad:
Just an idea! Maybe someone ( Karlynn ;) ) could even write up a form version of such a letter.
I will include some contact information for some of the different news agency's.

http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form1.html?19

[email protected]

http://abc.go.com/site/localstations.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/home/main100.shtml
scroll to bottom for contact us ?button?
 

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