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tom in MO said:
We just had a scientific political statement that the Pfizer vaccine is good for humans. Between Sunday and today there was no change in the science, just the politics. Between Sunday and today, there was a change in where politics intersects an individual's life, you can now be fired if not vaccinated. You just watch, there will be a surge in vaccinations now that the politics has said the vaccine works.
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All of the friends and colleagues of mine who are scientists see the full FDA approval of the vaccine as a positive development. I guess you don't. There are millions who have been on the fence, indicating that they planned to wait for full approval before they get vaccinated. If they are true to their word, and not cynical of the system, I expect many of them will now be vaccinated.
Do you have evidence that this move was not based on their review of the evidence, but based only on politics, as you claim?

"Between Sunday and today there was no change in the science, just the politics."

You can make this claim about the approval of any vaccine. The day before the review process is completed and approval is granted, the science was the same. So, what is that supposedly evidence of? Don't get me wrong. As with any governement agency, they have enormous flaws and screw a lot of things up. But, they review the scientific literature and then grant approval if it passes muster- that's how it works. Have they approved things which they should not have? definitely. Many argue that they have done this with the Alzheimer's drug that was recently approved. But, the covid vaccines have a tremendous amount of evidence of effectiveness at this point, unlike the Alzheimer's drug that was approved, which appears to have little if any. But, if you have evidence that they were wrong to approve the vaccine, please present it.



https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...al-of-a-covid-19-vaccine-what-you-should-know
 
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Chuck C said:
Fool

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/na...0210727-fckvd6huljduzh3u45leei3fgy-story.html
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I would encourage this test for all mask shuners based on "faith":
"A person who has a strong faith can drink poison and suffer no harm, Mark 16 [:18], while one who has a weak faith would thereby drink to his death"

if you pass the test you don't need to wear a mask ... well ... either way really

Martin Luther (quoted above) went on to say:
"When a strong man travels with a weak man, he must restrain himself so as not to walk at a speed proportionate to his strength lest he set a killing pace for his weak companion. Christ does not want his weak ones to be abandoned, as St. Paul teaches in Romans 15 [:1] and 1 Corinthians 12 [:22 ff.]. To put it briefly and concisely, running away from death may happen in one of two ways."

Its probably hard for Tom (who is such just a strong man in Jesus) to understand that others are not and may suffer from the poison.

I do recommend that letter from Martin Luther I posted, stepping aside his religious views his words are based in sound humanist and logical approach.

Wear a mask in public, get vaccinated and keep distances.
 
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Superman said:
It is amazing how quickly full FDA approval was granted after our largest local hospital (and I assume others) said they will mandate the vaccine for employees within 8 weeks of full FDA approval. When our local hospital made that determination, full FDA approval was anticipated first quarter 2022. Within a couple weeks of that announcement, “Okay fine. Approved!”

So what actually changed about the science that shortened a six month timeline to a couple weeks? That’s a political (perhaps bureaucratic is a better word) decision, not a scientific one.
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Hold on lemme grab my tinfoil hat
 
I’m pretty sure there’s some snake church or something that did or used to practice their faith in this way. Seem to recall something on the tv show, “That’s Incredible” in the 1980’s when I was a kid. Or maybe it was 60 minutes.

Wonder if that church lasted or died out?
 
pellicle said:
I would encourage this test for all mask shuners based on "faith":
"A person who has a strong faith can drink poison and suffer no harm, Mark 16 [:18], while one who has a weak faith would thereby drink to his death"
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There is a Christian denomination which is know for their advocacy of this scripture. In some of their branches they hold poisonous snakes to prove their faith. My dad had a twin brother who joined the local branch of this church. I don't know that they advocated the holding of poisonous snakes in his particular location, but they did tell my uncle that he could ditch his heart medication and that God would heal him.
See, he was born with a heart defect. I'm not sure of his condition, but it involved the mixing of oxygenated blood with blood that was no longer oxygenated. They called him a blue baby at birth and he always had a blueish color about him.

He was not supposed to live to age 10, then they said he would not live to 15...20, he ended up living until age 39, when his pastor told him to stop taking his medication and God would heal him. He had to be rushed to the hospital 3 days later and soon died.

Needless to say, my dad always refuses when we invite him to come to church with us. I can understand. Although, he is well aware that it is just a small minority of churchs which teach this.
 
Superman said:
I’m pretty sure there’s some snake church or something that did or used to practice their faith in this way. Seem to recall something on the tv show, “That’s Incredible” in the 1980’s when I was a kid. Or maybe it was 60 minutes.

Wonder if that church lasted or died out?
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Per my post above, my uncle was a member of the local branch of that church. No snake holding that I am aware of in his local branch, but they did convince him to stop taking his heart medication, and that God would "heal" him. It soon cost him his life.
 
Reminds me of the old joke about the guy in the flood. A neighbor offers to give him a ride to safety. Nope. God will protect me. Among rising waters, a boat comes by and offers to rescue him. Nope. My trust is in the Lord. A helicopter drops a ladder to his roof to save him. Nope. My faith will keep me safe.

The man dies and meets God in heaven. Why didn’t you protect me, God?

“I sent you car, then a boat, and finally a helicopter. What more did you want?”
 
In our travels I was amazed at how few mask wearers there are across the country. Random gas stations, grocery stores, tourist sites. Really, only in National Park facilities where they are required were there people wearing them. One gas station/c-store had a sign encouraging people to remove their masks. “Take your mask off! It’s been X number of days since the pandemic started and you’re still alive.”

Often my family and I would be the only oddballs still masking up. Even in crowded outdoor areas. If there was room to spread out we’d pocket them, which thankfully was a lot of the trip. But otherwise we put them on. And I think pandemic or no, there’s a lot to be said for mask wearing in a gas station bathroom. Don’t know why I didn’t always do it!
 
Chuck C said:
There is a Christian denomination which is know for their advocacy of this scripture.
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our PM is one of those
1629856138210.png
 
Here in NZ unfortunately some doctors are clearly not fit to be doctors imo
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/heal...jack-new-zealands-covid19-vaccination-rollout
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/heal...-multiple-complaints-over-antivaccine-doctors
Which seems to be working... a guy at work yesterday cancelled his vaccination appointment in a few days because hes now “scared” of the side affects of the vaccine...

Due to the Delta variant NZ is currently in a country wide lockdown to eliminate it, only essential industries are working, mask wearing is mandatory and generally despite a few tepid protests everyone is following the rules.
We are a team of 5 million.

Maybe when the aliens invade and start zapping us with laser beams we might all get on the same page.
 
cldlhd said:
Ya I found that amusing, Trump getting booed not that guy dying, it's like a microcosm of what happened to the Republican party- for years they fed that crazy uncle in the attic thinking they could keep him locked up there but he got out and took over the house .. .the poorly educated ( otherwise known as "the base" ) have been fed disinformation for decades from not believing in evolution to climate change and now vaccines and masks. It's sad but to win the nomination now I think you'd have to be anti science and knowledge to the point of satire.
Trump is done recommending vaccines , it's a show and he'll give them what they want. Probably start changing to lock up fauci or some other gibberish. It's amazing to me that those p*gf***ers at his rallies don't recognize how much he despises them.
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You say "poorly educated." I call it "unindoctrinated". Bottom line is this. You (left wing liberals) hate my guts and wish I were dead. We (conservatives) hate your guts and wish you were dead. So why don't we just get this civil war underway and settle this once and for all. At this point I'm all in winner take all.
 
hevishot said:
You say "poorly educated." I call it "unindoctrinated". Bottom line is this. You (left wing liberals) hate my guts and wish I were dead. We (conservatives) hate your guts and wish you were dead. So why don't we just get this civil war underway and settle this once and for all. At this point I'm all in winner take all.
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Bahahaha! The irony is you are the one who's indoctrinated. You believe someone is either a left wing nut or a right wing nut ( Which, for some reason, you call "conservative"). That's the problem- the wackos on either side have the loudest voices. I doubt you truly know what being a conservative means. It's sad that you wish for others death and assume we feel that way about you. Our enemies, like your buddy Putin, would be proud.
 
Superman said:
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. Can’t fool me!

I saw, “The Fugitive”. Devlin-McGregor? Provasic? Ring any bells!?! They switched the samples!
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I'm confused, are you saying the FDA rushed approval because some hospital systems mandated it? I haven't seen any evidence of that perhaps this is a case of correlation without causation? Or maybe the hospitals got word that full approval was imminent. Either way full approval wasn't necessary for a company to mandate it as far as I know.
 
cldlhd said:
I'm confused, are you saying the FDA rushed approval because some hospital systems mandated it? I haven't seen any evidence of that perhaps this is a case of correlation without causation? Or maybe the hospitals got word that full approval was imminent. Either way full approval wasn't necessary for a company to mandate it as far as I know.
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Im just having fun with a pandemic. Don’t take me too seriously. I don’t.

My wife’s employer (a hospital) released a policy that full vaccination would be required within eight weeks of full FDA approval. That part is true. Coincidentally, FDA approval moved from first quarter 2022 (which would have meant vaccination by April or May of 2022) to October to a couple weeks after they made their policy known publicly. The full FDA approval stipulation was a concession to those in the medical profession who said they should not require a vaccine that doesn’t have full approval. It was also a concession to the public who felt all healthcare workers should be vaccinated. A compromise.
 
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