Blood Ph, Calcification and Cancer

[Andyrdj]

Howdy folks. Time to elicit advice on general health from you all.

A friend has recently been diagnosed with cancer, and it set me to researching into ways to keep healthy and reduce the risk.

Now, many of these are uncontrovertial, even supportive of cardiac health.

There is one school of thought, however, which points to acidity of the blood as a conributing factor. Have lost the URL, but, to quote

There is plenty of research showing that cancer thrives in an acidic environment, and doesn't survive in an normal, more alkaline environment. Cancer cells make your body even more acidic as they produce lactic acid. So if you have cancer, your pH levels are low and your body is too acidic.

and

The majority of the foods and drinks we consume are acidic, such as meat, grains and sugar, with colas and other soft drinks being highly acidic. So unless you have been eating a very healthy diet, full of fresh fruit and vegetables, your body is way too acidic. Creating a very good environment for cancer to grow in.

and

Actually, a too much acidity is an underlying factor in many degenerative diseases -- diabetes, arthritis, fibromyalgia and more. A basic maxim of natural physicians is: Balance the bio terrain. Do this first, then everything can come back to normal.

So, one might think supplements to increase blood alkalinity are a good idea. However, many of the methods for achieving this call for calcium supplements, and for the recipient of a tissue valve one must balance this out with the risk of increased calcification.

If we find non-calcium based methods of achieving this, there is still perhaps the issue of decreased calcium solubility due to higher ph.

I would therefore welcome input from anyone who has faced this dilemma, or indeed who knows about this.

Ideally, one would want some combination of supplments which could both decrease ph and mop up excess calcium and other minerals which cause deposits on heart valves.

Failing this, advice on achieving an optimal balance would be welcomed.

 

[debster913]

I am skeptical of anything that says that diet is a sole contrbuting factor to whether or not a person develops cancer. I know people who've eaten junk their entire lives and live a long, healthy, cancer-free life. On the other hand, my mother who is in the hospital recovering from pancreatic cancer surgery, has eaten a healthy diet her whole life.

So who gets cancer?

Sure, there are plenty of things we can do to reduce our risk of developing cancer--don't smoke, eat right, exercise, but cancer doesn't care who you are, if you're short, tall, male, female, whatever. In my mom's case, the doctor believes her tumor was caused by genetics as her younger brother died of the exact same cancer six years ago.

I'm sorry if I seem a little combative; it's just that I'm still angry that this even had to happen to my mother in the first place--one of the healthiest people I know.

Best of luck to your friend in the battle against cancer. It just seems to happen an awful lot to people nowadays. A friend of mine who is in remission from uterine cancer blames our toxic environment.

Debi

 

[geebee]

Skeptical here also. It seems like people want to blame something for things like cancer. Perhaps it makes it easier than accepting that some things are simply beyond our control. I agree that eating right and exercising, no smoking and limited drinking make sense but, sometimes, bad things happen to good people and that's that.

 

[Mary]

I'll go out on a limb, and I am prepared to retract this statement, but the idea that the blood can become too acidic from the foods one eats sounds preposterous to me. I did find this link that discusses exercise and blood PH.
http://www.chemistry.wustl.edu/~edudev/LabTutorials/Buffer/Buffer.html

 

[Ross]

Did anyone stop to think that all the stuff they take to prevent other stuff, just might be poisoning them? I sit and look at some really ludicrous things said of days of old, but no one yet has told me why ma an pa lived to be a ripe old age on the diets they ate. Seems to me, most of that was homegrown, meats, dairy products, before all these additives found their way into foods.

I still think people are either born with a "Kill" gene that activates all of it's own accord and there is nothing you can do about it.

Blood is life and I'm sure it must maintain a certain balance of Alkalinity and Acidity to even be.

 

[debster913]

Did anyone stop to think that all the stuff they take to prevent other stuff, just might be poisoning them? I sit and look at some really ludicrous things said of days of old, but no one yet has told me why ma an pa lived to be a ripe old age on the diets they ate. Seems to me, most of that was homegrown, meats, dairy products, before all these additives found their way into foods.

I agree, Ross. My mom was raised on a farm in Iowa and ate pretty much all homegrown food. Still, she and her brother ended up with the same cancer. Where's the logic in that?

Anyway, I hate "studies" that tell us to eat this, avoid that, because the next thing we know, new studies come out that tell us just the opposite. I'll eat what I want, thank you very much, and I'll just take the best care of myself that I can.

 

[Butterfly]

orthomolecular medicine

orthomolecular medicine

For the past few years I have been reading a lot about orthomolecular medicine. It can be difficult to find foods that are not overly processed ,have not been grown in increasingly deficient soils and that are not contaminated with some sort of growth enhancer or pesticide. If the foods that are available to us were cultivated under ideal conditions as far as health is concerned there would possibly be no need to consider supplements.Soil deficiency can lead to deficiencies of certain minerals in the body and the production and ingestion of vital antioxidents to quell free radicals that may have a bearing on the body's response to rogue cells. Apparently studies have shown that sugar and grains feed cancer. Perhaps you might like to look up the Dr Mercola website for more information about natural methods of reducing the risk of cancer. The Vitamin C Foundation also might also be helpful as well as The Life Extension Foundation.
I wouldn't advocate natural or orthomolecular therapies in place of more traditional therapies however I see these as complementary. I believe I have had success maintaining aspects of my health through orthmolecular rather than traditional medicine intervention howvere each person needs to make this decision for themselves based on the information they have.Please don't think I'm a whacko as I am quite a skeptic in general though I sometimes run things past my daughter who is a Senior Medical Scientist to see if the agrees
with the logic of the chemistry suggested for certain orthomolecular therapies.

 

[OldManEmu]

You are what you eat

You are what you eat

Ross I am with you on this one

I sit and look at some really ludicrous things said of days of old, but no one yet has told me why ma an pa lived to be a ripe old age on the diets they ate. Seems to me, most of that was home-grown, meats, dairy products, before all these additives found their way into foods.

Every time you pick up packaged food and read the label it?s scary.
Not to mention the numerous agricultural chemicals that food is exposed to before it even gets of the farm.
The generations that have grown up in the last 50 or so years are the first who have had this life long exposure to all these chemicals, it sometimes makes me feel like a lab rat.

 

[tobagotwo]

Sorry, Andy, but I'll have to agree with Deb and Ross on this one. The blood PH thing has been running in the same circles as the coral calcium myth, all designed to divert people's attention and more importantly, their dollars.

It's good to be curious, but when something is revealed as the "unknown" cure for many disparate ills, and is advertised as a miracle "secret" that is being witheld by the Entire Medical Community and the Evil Drug Companies, you'd better buckle up, because you're being taken for a ride.

Another new one is hydrogen peroxide, which is great for cuts, but worthless for internal ills. It's the latest hidden miracle, which you could heal yourself with, if only you puchased this book, which explains how to use it...

Be aware that there is no study that shows a realtionship between dietary calcium and valve "calcification," which is a buildup of apatite that is only partially calcium. Calcium is ubiquitous in the body's systems, so there's no more reason to believe that its presence is causative than there is to believe that it's simply naturally available when the process - whatever it is - of valve mineralization begins.

As far as cancers, there seem to be many possibilities. There's no question that some cancers are caused by viruses. Perhaps that will turn out to be most cancers. Perhaps some will be found to be caused by a delayed reaction, like shingles developing years later from chicken pox, just waiting for an opening in the body's defenses.

How many years did we believe that stomach ulcers were only caused by stress and poor eating habits, when it turns out that most are actually the result of opportunistic infections of helicobacter pylori and friends?

Certainly there are environmental factors that affect the rate of cancer in some areas, as well as genetic susceptibilities. In fact, maybe they should revisit some of the "Cancer Alley" studies and determine if some of those hot spots are not entirely environmental. There just may be a concentration of Smiths or Joneses in that area. We shouldn't assume that it's all related to only one aspect of the geography.

I take antioxidants and other supplements. I think they can be beneficial. But I give my body "vacations" from them, and I usually don't take them on weekends, because I feel that buildups of them can be a bad thing. Every medication has some good effects and some side effects. It would be foolish not to believe the same thing of concentrated supplements.

Follow the example of the deer, which never stop and eat all of any plant they find. They eat some of it, move on, eat some of something else. Many of the plants they eat are toxic, especially the evergreens, but they can also supply needed nutients in the winter months, as long as the deer don't eat enough of any one type of plant toxin to harm themselves. Consuming toxins is inevitable, but the sensible answer to toxins is like the sensible answer to many external environmental issues: "Dilution is the Solution for Pollution."

Wow. Ramblng. Sorry...

Best wishes,

 

[Adrienne]

Be aware that there is no study that shows a realtionship between dietary calcium and valve "calcification," which is a buildup of apatite that is only partially calcium. Calcium is ubiquitous in the body's systems, so there's no more reason to believe that its presence is causative than there is to believe that it's simply naturally available when the process - whatever it is - of valve mineralization begins.

In fact, in a conversation with my surgeon about that subject (since I take calcium supplements), he basically said not to worry and that it would not affect the valve.

 

[Bina]

There are alot of interesting points of view here.

I do believe that our bodies can benefit from a stable PH, and a good balance of vitamins and minerals. So many people just over-do things. More is not always better.

And of course family genetics play a big role in our predisposition to certain conditions and diseases. Let's blame our parents for something

We all know that stress is a killer.....

Those packaged foods are a nightmare of ingredients aren't they?
But be aware that all those lovely fruits and vegetables are sprayed with deadly pesticides!! Eat organic if you can.

My favourite medicinal supplement???????? Laughter, of course.

 

[csutherland]

We're going through this "where on earth did it (cancer) come from?" in our family right now. Our daughter, age 38, had her baseline mammogram in March and, long story short, has breast cancer, 2 lumpectomies to get good margins, and is now facing 33 radiation treatments. She has two little girls, 5 & almost 2; she's 5'9 & weights about 125, has always been able to eat as much as she wanted without excess gain. Never smoked, never drank, eats lots of fresh veggies/fruits, raised in the country with homegrown foods, blah, blah, blah.

Her one risk factor? I had the same type cancer at 61, but hers has an invasive element where mine didn't. But where did I get it? I had the same basic background she does, only not quite so thin. She gets that gene from her daddy.

I agree with those who say that some of these strange ideas are concocted to separate desperate people from their money.

 

[barbwil]

I couldn't resist this one!

I couldn't resist this one!

A friend has just informed me that she and her husband have spent megabucks on "alkaline water" and in 3 days began to feel so much better. (placebo effect is very strong if you believe it will work).

After she told me they were doing this I googled "alkaline water" and came up with this scientist's lengthy discussion of the acid/alkaline reactions in the body.

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html

alkaline water=snake oil

I've never tried to figure out WHY I contracted renal cell ca but I do believe it is a combination of genes and environment!

 

[debster913]

One other thing---

As an English teacher, I'm quite critical of my students' grammar when they write. While re-reading the quoted passages from the source Andy used, I found a few grammatical mistakes. This brings doubt to my mind the authenticity of the material. I realize we all make mistakes in our writing, but an official study should look a lot cleaner than that.

 

[Cooker]

I still think people are either born with a "Kill" gene that activates all of it's own accord and there is nothing you can do about it.

A freaking men Ross! I have read several things of late that say the same thing. Kill, death or cancer gene whatever you call it I believe it to exist.

Life is terminal, sorry it's true. I will not waste time searching for ways to prolong it at the expense of a good time, good ride, good anything

Next!

Tom

 

[Susan BAV]

Andy -

Andy -

A member here, Rich, began a thread December 26th, 2006, entitled, "Acid Reflux Medications." On that thread, I posted a list of ash and acidic foods that my husband was given by his acupuncturist and I will copy and paste it here as follows:

"Common Acid Ash Foods, leaving strong acid in your internal environment...bacon, barley grain, beef, blueberries, bran/wheat and oat, bread/white and whole wheat, butter, carob, cheese, chicken, cod, corn, corned beef, crackers/soda, cranberries, currants, eggs, flour/white and whole wheat, haddock, honey, lamb, lentils/dried, lobster, milk/cow's, macaroni, oatmeal, oysters, peanut butter, peanuts, peas/dried, pike, (plums and prunes leave an alkaline ash but have an acidifying effect on the body), pork, rice/white and brown, salmon, sardines, sausage, scallops, shrimp, spaghetti, squash/winter, sunflower seeds, turkey, veal, walnuts, wheat germ, and yogurt. Neutral ash foods that have an acidifying effect include: corn oil, corn syrup, olive oil, and refined sugar.

Common Alkaline Ash Foods, helping to control acid in your internal environment... almonds, apples, apricots, avocados, bananas, beans/dried, beet greens, beets, blackberries, broccoli, brussel sprouts, cabbage, carrots, cauliflower, celery, chard leaves, cherries/sour, cucumbers, watermelon, dates/dried, figs/dried, grapefruit, grapes, green beans, green peas, lemons, lettuce, lima beans/ dried and green, limes, milk/goat (recommended for infants only when mother's milk is not available), millet, molasses, mushrooms, muskmelons, onions, oranges, parsnips, peaches, pears, pineapple, potatoes/sweet and white, radishes, raisins, raspberries, rhubarb (not recommended for having properties detrimental to the body), rutabagas, sauerkraut, soy beans/green, spinach/raw, strawberries, tangerines, tomatoes, and watercress."

If this is of interest to you, there is a bit more information about it in that above-referenced thread.

I think genetics play an enormous role in predisposing people to develop problems like valve issues and cancer, etc. But perhaps there are things many of us can do to achieve the best quality of life possible for as long as possible, and perhaps even delay what may be inevitable.

 

[Andyrdj]

Dear all

Dear all

What a varied range of replies.

Firstly, folks, I am not after any sort of "cure all" and the quotation was not from any official study, more a compendium of possible preventative measures. No links to any suppliers were on the article.

For everything in the list, I have been conducting comparative research, taking each part of it with a fair pinch of salt, and also have been very keen not to go jumping from one thing to another without balancing the consequences.

For one thing, there has been a strong recommendation against sugar. Well, for sure it wouldn't do me any harm to reduce it especially since my dad suffers from late onset diabetes. Actually, I had already reduced my calorific intake anyway for weight loss reasons, but I'm damned if I'm giving up sweets and chocolate for all time.

However, there has been the odd bit of stuff with a degree of backing in scientific articles such as Pubmed etc.

For one thing, keeping your immune system as strong as possible is a consistent favourite with other obvious benefits. Another is a supplment I'd tried before - Alpha lipoic acid. To the author's credit, he touted this particular one as something that should work alongside traditional medicine, as opposed to instead of it.

As to Bob H's advice of trying a little bit of everything - that philosophy had already come to me courtesy of a fellow GERD sufferer and it really helps with digestion, having so many different textures of food going through. It works with herbal supplements too - I have a range of them but I don't take all of them every day.

Fortunately and positively, many of these anti cancer supplements seem to have a fair record of encouraging general wellness anyway.

I've taken the attitude in this of looking to adopt those measures which are based on inexpensive supplements with as wide a range of benefits as possible.

I certainly wouldn't be looking to try any of the more wild claims of dramatic cures unless I was told had two months to live, and I had littel to lose. Cellular zeolite is an example, though I actually did find a citation in pubmed regarding its effect on cancer cells

However I certainly wouldn't object to easting blueberries, cranberries and black rasberries on for their various positive effects a regular basis if I can grow them myself and not pay jumped up delicatessen prices.

Now, back to specific purpose of this post - acidity. Many thanks to Susan BAV for her post on acidic and alkaline foods. I certainly have an interest in this sort of thing anyway because of my GERD.

Also thanks to Adrienne and Bob H for their comments about calcium supplementation - I had long wondered about the dietary calcium effect on tissue valves, since I've heard of people getting ready to cut out all milk, cheese, butter and foods high in calcium. Doesn't sound like fun either taste wise or for your bones in the long term!.

So the positive upshot seems to be that I dont' have to balance one against another at least?

Other thing is, folks, I'm by nature tight as a bull's arse in fly time, so I won't be splashing out on expensive stuff. Just the odd supplement that is statistically likely to help in the long term, and with benefits on the way.

 

[Andyrdj]

Also to debster913

Also to debster913

I understand your anger about your mother - my mum was very healthy and yet she too died of cancer.

In fact, three or four ladies on the road where I grew up (12 houses, with a few people moving in and out) have suffered from Breast cancer in the last 20 odd years. We always did wonder if we were sitting on a Radon gas hotspot (Derbyshire in the UK does have a few of these).

So you can never guarantee anything, even if you do live healthily. There are certain gene variants which up the chances by a nasty degree, yet even they often have to be triggered by the appropriate environmental conditions,
which are somewhat random.

But if you're willing to accept the random element in statistics, then there are many ways you can hedge your bets in your favour.

I reckon the best plan has to be to do those things which make you feel well in the short term and likely to be in the long term. If anyone's interested, I'll report on anything I try that seems especially beneficial (in that it makes me feel good in the short tems).