pellicle
Professional Dingbat, Guru and Merkintologist
And Super Glue probably isn't easy to apply eitherThe problem with having bleeding in the mouth is that you can't apply a tourniquet or pressure on it for too long
And Super Glue probably isn't easy to apply eitherThe problem with having bleeding in the mouth is that you can't apply a tourniquet or pressure on it for too long
Anecdotal to be sure, butManagement of Dental Extractions in Patients taking Warfarin as Anticoagulant Treatment: A Systematic Review
https://jcda.ca/article/f20
In my wife's case they did apply super "dental" glue after the bleeding started but it did not hold-up to the hydrostatic pressure of the liver clot (kind of like caulking a crack to stop a water leak coming from a basement foundation).And Super Glue probably isn't easy to apply either
I got disgusted from the constant taste of iron. When you say sick here - I'm hoping it meant disgust versus actuall illness. Did she have her stitches re-done? I had the liver clots over one weekend and I was done with it. :OShe then got sick from swallowing the blood. It was a long ordeal but what saved her was renting a portable fluid suction device (like what they use in the dentist office) from a medical supply company. It took a good week or two for the bleeding and liver clots to subside once her INR got temporarily down between 2.0 and 2.5 (normal range for her is 2.5-3.5).
You're right on the money, my INR on the day of initial procedure was 2.4, but climbed rapidly to 3.4 within the third day. For the next few days, I intend to be on top of my INR and be within 1.8-2.2. At least for 2-3 days on this value. I hope I will not require pain meds during the process as it has shown to cause my INR to spike.Have you had your INR tested since the procedure? I know that you were 2.2 on the morning of your procedure, but with all of the meds that they had you on, it would not surprise me if there was one or more of them interfering with warfarin clearance. You could easily be over 3.0 at this point.
I do have 2 more on the other side of my mouth laying in wait. Not looking forward and will be sure to keep up with my oral hygiene in a bid to avoid this as long as I possibly can. And if I can't, I am not bestowed with the wisdom of the experts on what to base my INR on prior surgery.Proper scientific control and test case can only be done if he gets another wisdom tooth pulled and goes for INR < 2
This is such an apt description of how the liver clot grows.In my wife's case they did apply super "dental" glue after the bleeding started but it did not hold-up to the hydrostatic pressure of the liver clot (kind of like caulking a crack to stop a water leak coming from a basement foundation).
She got physically sick from swallowing too much blood (called gastrointestinal distress) and passed out. Took her to ER where they gave her protonix to calm her stomach down which she ended up having an allergic reaction to (making a long story short here). All that on top of her bleeding mouth was a complete nightmare. They then had an oral surgeon come in who said there is nothing else to do for her bleeding gums except get her INR down to around 2.0 and give it time to heal. It was while in the ER that she discovered that the fluid suction device was a life saver and they gave her an Rx to rent a portable one to use at home.I got disgusted from the constant taste of iron. When you say sick here - I'm hoping it meant disgust versus actuall illness. Did she have her stitches re-done?
I had a cut on roof of my mouth from an overly sharp edge on a tortilla. It would not stop bleeding and after 24 hours I went to ER. Doc said it was close to needing a stitch, but thought we could handle it. I told him I tried the tea bag trick and it did not work. I told him I put it on dry. He said to put tea bag in boiling water for a minute to activate the stuff that would help and when cool, put on cut He said always wet the tea bag or if using gauze, wet it first, otherwise as you saw, it pulls the scab off when you remove the gauze.In my case, I had a tooth (not a wisdom tooth) extracted. Gauze didn't seem to help much, plus, when the blood seemed to have clotted, when I removed the gauze, the bleeding started again.
Been there! This seems to happen to me every 2 or 3 years, with a corn chip or tortilla. I get so pissed at myself when it happens: "How long have you been eating now Chuck and this still happens?" Every time it was eating while distracted or eating too fast. I get even madder at myself when I bite my tongue by accidentI had a cut on roof of my mouth from an overly sharp edge on a tortilla.
yeah, I had 4 to be removed ... and back then I had a homograft valve so my dentist never gave any ACT a thought.I do have 2 more on the other side of my mouth laying in wait. Not looking forward and will be sure to keep up with my oral hygiene in a bid to avoid this as long as I possibly can.
that's interesting to know that they have that in their tool kit (I'm not surprised btw), but I was meaning like "in the field" as I do when I get my own injuries working with steel and sharp plastics here at home.n my wife's case they did apply super "dental" glue after the bleeding started but it did not hold-up to the hydrostatic pressure of the liver clot (kind of like caulking a crack to stop a water leak coming from a basement foundation).
good pointsHe said that he always tells his patients to check with their cardiologist, but said that typically there is not much bleeding with a simple tooth extraction, so no INR reduction. But, there are tooth extractions and there are tooth extractions. He said that if the tooth to be extracted is impacted, this changes things and could warrant an INR reduction.
You are right, I have an On-X valve. I will be sure to target a much lower INR prior any procedures in the future, and definitely with blessings from my cardiologist.I personally find this subject interesting and while I know that any experiment involving you is (N = 1) but I still prefer to minimise risks and if bringing the INR to just over 1.5 does that then you should consider it. Do you not have an On-X valve anyway? (note for the casual reader the On-X is on the FDA record as approved down to INR=1.8 "for daily targeting")
That's horrible, and it definitely must have been a very very rough period for the both of you. Glad that it's in the rear view mirror now! Thanks for sharing about GI distress, I did some light reading on it and am glad that I had not reached that stage.She got physically sick from swallowing too much blood (called gastrointestinal distress) and passed out.
Seeing the value of the lower end of INR in recover so I am trying to bring it down to below 2.0 but am struggling at the moment due to a multitude of lifestyle changes that has happened over the months leading to 2024. I had initially managed to establish a relatively stable INR, sitting within the 2.0 - 3.0 range on an almost fixed dosage. My diet then was pretty regular, and I was reasonably healthy.They then had an oral surgeon come in who said there is nothing else to do for her bleeding gums except get her INR down to around 2.0 and give it time to heal.
I was indeed prescribed Paracetamol (500mg) + Codeine Phosphate (8mg) tablets, instructions were to take 2 tablets, 3 times a day. Paying attention only to the Paracetamol component, this equates to 3g of Paracetamol a day. However further instructions state not to exceed 8 tablets within 24 hours. As I was trying to cope with the discomfort stemming from the extraction, and hoping to harvest as much rest as possible (Codeine component of the tablet causes drowsiness in some, until the body gets used to it), I maxed out the 8 tablets within 24 hours dosage guideline, and effectively hitting the 4g/24 hours of Paracetamol limit, which "potentiates the anticoagulant response produced by warfarin."Paracetamol at 4 g daily (a dose higher than that used in clinical practice) potentiates the anticoagulant response produced by warfarin.
I had a cut on roof of my mouth from an overly sharp edge on a tortilla.
Every time it was eating while distracted or eating too fast. I get even madder at myself when I bite my tongue by accident
Haha, pre-warfarin, I slice myself up ever so often that my wife got used to them. Once I cut myself pretty good while helping in some baby foam installation for the brother-in-law. Resorted to super glue and it worked reasonably well enough (probably being on INR 1.0 helped immensely).I was meaning like "in the field" as I do when I get my own injuries working with steel and sharp plastics here at home.
I used to get "what have you done now you idiot"she'd fiercely ask me "What happened?!"
HiSorry to hear about your dental complications and thanks for sharing your experience so that others may learn.
Have you had your INR tested since the procedure? I know that you were 2.2 on the morning of your procedure, but with all of the meds that they had you on, it would not surprise me if there was one or more of them interfering with warfarin clearance. You could easily be over 3.0 at this point.
Maybe talk to your cardiologist to see what he thinks of bringing your INR down to around 1.8 for a couple of days until the bleeding is resolved. Staying in that zone briefly might not be much of an issue- just make sure to discuss it with him and get his blessing.
I'm actually going in for dental work myself today. It is just for a replacement of a crown, so not much concern with bleeding and I have not taken any steps to lower my INR for the procedure. I will be taking my 2,000mg of amoxicillin an hour prior. Personally, if I was getting teeth extracted, I would get my cardiologist's blessing to go in with an INR about 1.7 to 1.8, at least for the day of the procedure. My normal range is 2.0 to 3.0, BTW.
that has been my protocol for some years nowHi
2000mg 1 hr prior to the procedure is this adviced ?
just wanted to add here that by 'my' I meanmy protocol
This is what my cardiologist and dentist tell me to do.2000mg 1 hr prior to the procedure is this adviced ?
I also bit my tongue one. It was a nightmare. I was after 2 hours of trying, on my way to hospital when it stopped. Could have used that!I bit my tongue a few years ago while on warfarin and I could not stop the bleeding. I felt like an idiot and really did not want to go to the emergency room. After about 2 hours of trying everything (tea bags, gauze etc), I started googling suggestions. I found a product called "Bleed Stop". It's a powder used to stop bleeding. It is similar to what the military uses on wounds. Put the powder on a piece of gauze and the bleeding stopped within a few minutes. I ordered a few boxes of the stuff to keep on hand for emergencies. I'm not sure if it can be used for a tooth extraction though.
and that my friend is the great part of this place, rubbing shoulders with people who are in the same "boat of problems" and can share ideas about what worked for them.Could have used that!
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