I'm thinking tissue?

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Nothing I like better than another flareup of the tissue-vs-metal wars!

Someone said that we've seen lots of folks on here who felt they'd been sold a valve that didn't live up to promises, but I've never seen that here, not even once. In my experience on this forum, everyone who goes through this VR process believes religiously that they have made the right choice, which is only natural since the decision is irreversible.

I also disagree with the person who made the categorical statement that "You don't want to have a second OHS" as an absolute admonition. Plenty of people make the perfectly reasonable choice for a tissue valve knowing that a second surgery is very likely in their future. And once again, I've heard on this forum that tissue valves last < 10 years. This is just not the case nowadays. With the new chemical anti-calcification treatments and other improvements, the new generation of tissue valves are expected to last > 20 years. I was told before my surgery that tissue valves last only 5 years, so I went in search of a surgeon whose knowledge was more up-to-date. I don't want anyone to be misinformed about this the way I was in the beginning.

Once again, there are no guarantees. The whole thing is a crap shoot no matter what you do, and anyway life is shorter than we generally acknowledge. If there is anything of the gambler in you then you can even enjoy this experience. Sure, that's just my personal opinion, and my surgery went smoothly and was not nearly as bad as that reported by some other people on here, though I'd wager that *most* people's experience was similar to mine. While I hope not to have a second OHS, I'm not afraid of it either now that I've been through it once. It just wasn't a terrible ordeal for me.
 
dlangton said:
Nothing I like better than another flareup of the tissue-vs-metal wars!. And once again, I've heard on this forum that tissue valves last < 10 years. This is just not the case nowadays. With the new chemical anti-calcification treatments and other improvements, the new generation of tissue valves are expected to last > 20 years. I was told before my surgery that tissue valves last only 5 years, so I went in search of a surgeon whose knowledge was more up-to-date. I don't want anyone to be misinformed about this the way I was in the beginning.
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I hate to disagree about this, but your age does come into play when discussing how long a tissue valve will last. At 60 + years, it is thought that you will get over 20 years from a tissue valve (I personally know some one who had one for over 20 years before she died of old age). However, it is the "younger" people, like me, who at 45, is most likely looking at 2 more replacements in my lifetime. My Dr's. guesstimate is that I will get 10-12 years out of this one, then hopefully another 12-15 out of the next one, and then hopefully the last one will outlive me. I would love it if this one lasted over 20 years, but I don't believe that is realistic at all.
 
dlangton said:
And once again, I've heard on this forum that tissue valves last < 10 years. This is just not the case nowadays.
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With all due respect, I don't think you can make this blanket statement. It depends greatly on age and people need to realize that the statistics and projections quoted are primarily for those people around 60 or above. I have not kept track of member names or years, but I do know that we've had members join within the last year who've reported their tissue valves lasting less than 10. I've seen 4, 5 and 6 years and most recently a post today by mitchner9g who reports his most recent Mosaic needing to be replaced after 2 1/2 years.

People are certainly welcome to choose a tissue valve and that may truly be the best choice for them, but I think it would be erroneous to tell people in their 30's that they can expect > than 20 years out of a tissue valve. They can certainly hope for it, but to expect it is setting them up for probable disappointment.

I was told when I got my mechanical that it will probably last my life. I'm hoping it does, but since I was 32 when I got it, I'm not really expecting it to. Like those who choose tissue knowing that at some point they'll have to have them replaced, I'll deal with it when/if the time comes.
 
Karlynn said:
I was told when I got my mechanical that it will probably last my life. I'm hoping it does, but since I was 32 when I got it, I'm not really expecting it to. Like those who choose tissue knowing that at some point they'll have to have them replaced, I'll deal with it when/if the time comes.
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Hey Karlynn, me too:cool:. You and I were about the same age. I didn't expect mine to last a lifetime either but its getting closer and closer. If I had known that I was going to last this long I would've taken better care of myself:p:p. If I can do it with all the stunts I've pulled....anybody can do it.

Right now, I'm "runnin' like hell" to catch RCB, but I can't gain any ground on him. :)

Like Karlynn says; "I'll deal with it when/if the time comes". This is true whether we have tissue, mechanical or any of the other procedures. Maybe we can put this thread to bed for awhile......and save some of the "passion" for the next go-round.......cause we all know it will come up again.:p:p:p:D...and again....and again. :rolleyes: Wasn't it General George Patton who once said "Lord how I love a good war"? ;)
 
Before we put this to bed, I just want to say how HAPPY I am not to have been the one to start this thread!
Whew!
Anyway, I have 2 cents and I'd love to throw them in since this has been dominating my life for a while.

I have come to realize that this choice is irrelevant. We can throw stats around forever and get nowhere. There are too many variables per individual for anybody, any of us, to tell someone anything conclusive.

Justin actually got close when he said you'd have to be "nuts" to want a second OHS.
Ok, he was a bit pushy but his point is illustrated by his emphasis.
For him, another operation was clearly the deciding factor. For Ross this is also the case. It's is not so for everybody.

They cannot fathom anyone wanting to go through another OHS.
Conversely, some of us cannot fathom how anyone could possibly prefer monitoring their INR and checking in regularly with their doc for the rest of their life.

I decided to go with a tissue valve because I've had a bunch of surgeries, they don't freak me out, and, having worked in it, I freaking HATE the healthcare system in this country and the way it's run .

I don't want to be a part of it and I don't want to spend any of my time calling, monitoring, checking in, adjusting, .... any of that. To me, I can't stand the thought of it. I know I'll eventually be dragged back into it and get another OHS, but if that makes me nuts, I'm happy to be just that.

I also really have to question the whole "Warfarin is no big deal" thing. It's no big deal once you get used to it. It's no big deal if you haven't got a choice. It's no big deal until you fall off your mountain bike or get into a car accident. As someone else mentioned, there's a reason that there are TWO separate forums for ACT patients here, forums that deal with the complications of life on coumadin. The reason is because they're needed.

ACT is not a brainless thing, something you do on autopilot. It's a part of your life that requires your attention, both at home and with all the potential knuckleheads who might want to mess with your therapy.

I decided to get a tissue valve at 48 and I'll be going to get it in three days. Call me madcap, capricious, a rebel, stunningly handsome...but that's how I roll.
You want to tell me (and the newcomers reading here) that I'm wrong for making that choice? I am A. O. K. with that.

As long as you concede that you're wrong too.

BTW, Mech valves are great. They last and last and you don't need re-op. If the On-X study pans out, I'll probably feel like an idiot.
Mech valves are amazing. I just didn't want one.

Obviously there's a big market for tissue valves (And it's not just for geezers) so both patients and their surgeons are choosing tissue valves - yes even the young ones. Besides, if it was as clear cut as all that, surgeons, hospitals, and especially insurance companies would not be allowing mere patients to make the decision. It would be "mech valves for everybody!"

This is a decision that, absent any medical or physiological imperatives, is completely up to the individual and what sort of life he/she envisions after the OHS (or between operations).

And you can trust me, because I'm always right.



David
 
Yeah, yeah!

Whatever Dave said..!

Believe it or not, Dave, the moment you are ready to leave, no one here will be talking about your valve choice. They'll only be asking you to keep us posted somehow and wishing you well on your journey.

I made a similar decision to yours, and shared some reasoning with you. It was easier for me, because I was 52. Now, I find that I may need to redo the operation in ? amount of time, because the valve was just too small for me, and I'm redeveloping ventricular hypertrophy. The valve is working perfectly, and has been despite the atrocious amount of transvalvular pressure my heart has been putting on it ever since it was restarted. In fact, the valve's excellent service may become an issue, because the cardiologists are reluctant to replace a perfectly good valve, even if I am suffering because they should have used a larger one. It didn't matter which type of valve, just the size. I have to admit, with surgery facing me again, I'm truly delighted that I don't have warfarin to add to the complexity and risk.

Nonetheless, your point is well taken, and one that I have alluded to as well: The odds are very similar either way. It all depends on how you like your poison. Whatever valve you choose, once you have it, it is statistically unlikely to be the cause of your death.

Very best wishes to our soon-to-be valve recipients.
 
David, you don't need to come on here and justify your decision with such a long post - members here support EVERYBODY'S INDIVIDUAL VALVE CHOICES, regardless of what you may have been told by private mail....

If you're happy, completely happy (?) and sure about what you've chosen, that's the most important thing. No-one expects you to come on and explain your reasons....nobody here has the right to expect that.

The very best of luck to you and your wife for this week.
 
Dyna said:
he can try & change my mind, after reading this thread i'm not sure of my decision. May just settle for the coin flip. Exactly what is the big deal for some folks with warfarin? Is it the pills? The chance of getting seriously injured & bleeding out?
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LOL, you may just have to start a whole new thread if you want to pose that particular question:):)

The best advice I can give you is to read Al Lodwick's site thoroughly - that will give you all the answers you need. HE knows what he's talking about as he is an expert in the field of ACT.

Bridgette:)
 
Bridgette said:
David, you don't need to come on here and justify your decision with such a long post - members here support EVERYBODY'S INDIVIDUAL VALVE CHOICES, regardless of what you may have been told by private mail....

If you're happy, completely happy (?) and sure about what you've chosen, that's the most important thing. No-one expects you to come on and explain your reasons....nobody here has the right to expect that.

The very best of luck to you and your wife for this week.
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Hey!! It's only long because I use a lot of spaces!!

Seriously though, I never felt like all members supported my decision.
I got a LOT of "You're nuts to want another re-op" - A LOT of it- as you saw in some of my own threads. I felt that was insulting to a small degree but also a bit condescending.

On the other hand, NOBODY EVER emailed me or PM'd me when I was considering the On-X to tell me I was "nuts" to consider ACT for the rest of my life.

It's not even handed Bridgette, so I put in my two cents to help make it so.

I realize everyone here is trying to help, of that I am convinced. I am too. I know only my own perspective but that's no help to anyone in the end. My opinion is that the choice is irrelevant - a red herring.

The question is - what do you want your life to be like after the choice is made?

Anyway, I made my choice and if it works out well it won't make me right, just happy!

Please know that Heidi and I are grateful to you and everyone for your help and support.

we would have been lost without this extraordinary group of people!

(See I DO use a lot of spaces:D)
 
Ok, again, good luck for Tuesday!

Enjoy the rest of your evening. Did you manage to get Heidi to.......... write that tax cheque yet?

Cheers
Bridgette
 
Dyna said:
Exactly what is the big deal for some folks with warfarin? Is it the pills? The chance of getting seriously injured & bleeding out?
Click to expand...

Well, I tried to end this thread for a little while:eek:, oh well. I have never understood why warfarin gets so much press here, and most of the negative comments come from people NOT on Warfarin. No, its not the pills....they are small and easy to swallow. If you take the generic warfarin, they are pretty inexpensive, so that can't be a reason for the negative comments. Injuries and accidents serious enough to be a real problem are uncommon. I have been in a number of car accidents, two "totalled" the cars I was in with no problem other than a sore neck and back. Had my head cut open when I backed into a ceiling fan and a helluva lot of bumps and bruises, even fishing lures stuck in my head over the years....even fell down and hit my head, hard, on the pavement while I was drunk:eek:. About the only thing I gave up was riding motorcycles....but I was scared of 'em anyway. I haven't seen my cardio for two years and I haven't seen my family doc since I had an ear infection last fall, so that can't be the reason. It can't be because I like taking pills. I fought my docs "tooth and nail" until I was in my mid 60s over taking blood pressure and cholesterol pills. So I really don't know why some are so opposed to the drug.....EXCEPT that it DOES TAKE A SIMPLE AND CONTINUOUS REGIMEN for the rest of your life, or until they come up with something better than Warfarin. Whenever asked, I have always said that if you cannot, or prefer not to, develop a regimen, then you DO need to stay away from Warfarin. I have seen the best and worst of warfarin and personally, I think its a "piece of cake".....and by the way, I HATE hospitals, so the thought of another surgery makes my A-- Pucker......by-by now:p
 
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Enough is enough. I asked way back to drop it, let it go and it still persists, so I'll help it stop now.
 
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