Confidence...if only there was a pill

[JannerJohn]

Right I really need to turn my melancholy around. I have a beautiful wife, three wonderful daughters and a great job, house etc and life had been going along just fine. My mental model is you hopfully get to your 70s and if stuff happens well so be it. Since learning I need surgery at 50 for severe aortic stenosis and an ascending aorta aneurysm I have been in a deep deep depression. The surgeon is optimistic 97-98% success rate for my age. He even said to him the surgery to him is routine. My thoughts however dwell literally on all that can go wrong and I feel like the surgery is going to kill me or make me severely disabled. Unfortunately I have mentally convinced myself of this. My wife tells me I am no longer an island and refusing the surgery is just not an option. I have written letters to my colleagues and family pending my death and was going to plan my funeral. This is clearly not the mindset to go into surgery even my befuddled brain knows this. Somehow I need to turn this ship around.

 

[Unicusp]

I totally understand your thoughts. I am the same way. Sometimes it can be worse when you learn too much and over-analyze. I have and am/was making the same mistake. I look at that 2% to 3% possible bad outcome seriously as well. But then I rationalize that I'm minimizing risk as much as possible. Now I'm doing everything possible to be in the best physical and mental condition prior to surgery. Just tell myself that the surgeon and his team have done this thousands of times and it's routine for them. A high level of trust is necessary. Then it's in their hands or God's if you are deeply religious. When and where is your surgery? Hang in there!

 

[JLmatus]

What you are experiencing is normal. You would not be human if you were not apprehensive about major surgery. However, you are still young. I'm sure you will do well with your surgery. Valve replacement surgery is pretty routine these days. Find a good surgeon and a good hospital and you will be fine. I had surgery similar to yours at age 61. I was scared before the surgery too. In the end the surgery and the recovery period were all pretty uneventful. To be honest I had more pain and discomfort from a hernia surgery that I had recently than from the heart surgery. Good luck and hang in there. Soon this will all be a memory and you can get back to your life. Since I had my heart surgery, I am more active now than before. You have come to the right place for help on this site. Just about everyone here is going through or has gone through everything that you are experiencing.

 

[dick0236]

It would be abnormal not to have thoughts like yours. We have all been there and we have all had negative thoughts about our mortality. I remember making a "will"........few young men back then made a formal "will" at 30.....especially if you have nothing to leave. I had two young kids, was still in college, had no life insurance and the surgeon gave me a 7-10% chance of a bad outcome. I was scared, angry, and overwhelmed. Now I look back and see the futility of what I thought back then. I have lived longer, on my initial valve than what any doctor thought back then and they are still amazed. My "kids" are now 61 and 59 years old, I've got a few bucks in the bank and no longer need to buy any more life insurance.......but there is no way I would have bought that story prior to the surgery.........or for a bunch of years afterward. Now I am 85 and have reached "old age"......who would have thunk it

 

[Unicusp]

It would be abnormal not to have thoughts like yours. We have all been there and we have all had negative thoughts about our mortality. I remember making a "will"........few young men back then made a formal "will" at 30.....especially if you have nothing to leave. I had two young kids, was still in college, had no life insurance and the surgeon gave me a 7-10% chance of a bad outcome. I was scared, angry, and overwhelmed. Now I look back and see the futility of what I thought back then. I have lived longer, on my initial valve than what any doctor thought back then and they are still amazed. My "kids" are now 61 and 59 years old, I've got a few bucks in the bank and no longer need to buy any more life insurance.......but there is no way I would have bought that story prior to the surgery.........or for a bunch of years afterward. Now I am 85 and have reached "old age"......who would have thunk it

Wow, those odds of 7 - 10% given back then are very scary! Not even close to today's odds. My surgeon has stated 1 - 2% and that makes me nervous! Congrats to you!

 

[dick0236]

Wow, those odds of 7 - 10% given back then are very scary! Not even close to today's odds. My surgeon has stated 1 - 2% and that makes me nervous! Congrats to you!

Remember the time. My surgery was in 1967. The surgical techniques and equipment were "primitive" by today's standard......and much of what is known now was not known then.........so those odds were acceptable. On the bright side, drugs like modern diuretics were not known then.........so every nite I got a 12oz can of real BEER(the brand was Schlitz.....I'll never forget) to help me pee.....so it wasn't all bad

 

[elMIguel]

I'm in the same boat. Sometimes the 97-98% success rate sounds great. Then later, usually in the wee hours of the morning, the 2-3% figure blankets my mind. It certainly helps to read the experiences of others, especially those who have more medical strikes against them or who are older, and to see that they were able to make it through successfully. I try to get myself to think..."if they can do it, so can I".

On the bright side, drugs like modern diuretics were not known then.........so every nite I got a 12oz can of real BEER(the brand was Schlitz.....I'll never forget) to help me pee.....so it wasn't all bad

Maybe hospitals should start offering that as a choice. Lasix or beer. It might be a way to boost their patient satisfaction ratings!

 

[MdaPA]

It certainly helps to read the experiences of others, especially those who have more medical strikes against them or who are older, and to see that they were able to make it through successfully. I try to get myself to think..."if they can do it, so can I".

I thoroughly agree! My darling wife, who is a mere 4'9", has had 3 OHS plus numerous other surgeries. She is tough as nails and gives me and others inspiration, i.e. "if she can do it, so can I". When she gets thinking about things and gets worried about her situation or what will happen next, she often says, "when you think it's tough or you are having a bad day, remember there is always someone else who is worse off than you".

Somehow I need to turn this ship around.

The next time you are in the hospital, take a walk through the children's section where you will see those just at the start of their lives fighting for their lives as they deal with dreadful diseases like cancer. Hopefully that will give you inspiration to better deal with your heart valve surgery which has a much better prognosis.

 

[pellicle]

My surgeon has stated 1 - 2% and that makes me nervous

yet you (presumably) drive?

 

[pellicle]

. I have a beautiful wife, three wonderful daughters and a great job, house etc and life had been going along just fine. My mental model is you hopfully get to your 70s and if stuff happens well so be it.

firstly don't over think this. Don't just sit around obsessing about what might happen ... because what's most likely to happen is what will happen.

secondly stop dreaming that you are in any way in control of pretty much anythying, it might just be that you've had a great run of luck to this very day, but I assure you that is all a dream of which, as a survivor (biased), you've somehow thought that was your doing.

This is the most successful surgery in the surgical repertoire so do yourself a favor and stop imaginging things which in reality you have no actual experience with. Life is not at all like that.

Lastly I suggest you to read Jordan Petersons Book 12 Rules for Life.
equally I suggest this to @elMIguel and @Unicusp

It is said people are either half full or half empty thinkers ... that cognitive virus has led many people who live comfortable affluent lives becoming mad.

Here's a curve ball ... what if you survive your surgery and your beautiful wife is killed?

http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/2015/09/denial-or-delusion.html

So here's the pill: stop reading rubbish on the internet which you may not actually really be qualified (meaning a cycle of prepared by experts, examined by them and then prepared for the next phase) to actually understand and interpret. If you *are* and still dip into self created anxiety then I doubt even seeing a psychologist will help because "you have to want to not be that way". As soon as you are not wanting to be that way you simply stop.

Best Wishes

 

[pellicle]

PS:

people are after a pill (not just here) to make them become something. To me (Jordan phrased it better over some chapters) that's patently ridiculous and simply put an abdication of your actually taking a hand in controlling yourself, something we can all do.

Let me give you a for instance about control of a compulsion.

In the days, months and years following my wifes death I developed a habit of looking at my phone. It was perhaps started and then compounded by the fact that she died in Finland (on a visit to her family) and we were at that time living in Australia. Because "timezones" I would get messages from friends at irregular hours. Because I was also having a lot of trouble sleeping (I hope you never know what I mean) I would read a few minutes, make replies and then be unable to fall back to sleep.

This was later compounded by me being re-admitted for my infection (twice) and essentially spending some months like this:

with a battery pump driven PICC line for vanco and one for suction from the wound. This meant there was something on each side of me at night in my bed going "errrt errrt errrt" all night. Combined with the way it is in hospital (3.5 weeks of that 4 months) my fitness was ruined and I developed a chronic sleep issue. The phone and its portal into the planet provided some distraction.

The result was however a lot of problems with sleep

After some years of this I decided that the habit to "reach for the phone" was a bad one and was what was perpetuating my bad sleep (well lets call it a co-factor) because of the screen brightness.

I made the decision to no longer take the phone to bed with me (which had only started after Anita had left for Finland) and that I would go to bed to bloody just go to bed and sleep (perchance not to dream because they were just horrible).

This aided my sleep enormously and it all started because I made a conscious choice to "not take the phone with me" ... and followed through with that.

People are creatures of habit, but you can also guide your habits. Keep researching and it becomes a habit even though you are probably not learning a single thing which will actually in reality help you.

Give it up, just say no, excersize will power and voilla ... it happens (if you don't cave in to your unconscious). It takes your will to do that. You are captain of your ship, so as captain you must exert dominance and force of will over the competing factions (within your body).

Here is another unrelated story of someone who did just that about something totally different (and remember the addiction is always based on you)

https://cyclingtips.com/2020/03/how-i-broke-up-with-caffeine-and-why-i-desperately-needed-to/
Best Wishes

 

[elMIguel]

pellicle, I appreciate your practical expertise, experience, compassion, and the occasional necessary kick in the pants.

 

[Superman]

I’ll admit that I always struggle with posts like this. My question is always which direction the OP wants it to go?

1.). What you’re feeling is normal. Many people feel that way...

2.). Success stories from current members so they have tangible examples of everything being okay...

3.). Platitudes about how everything is going to be okay.

I don’t know. I’ll go with #2 and say at 48 years old with a beautiful wife and (balancing out your crew) four sons and one daughter, I’ve had two open heart surgeries already. One way before any kids were even thought about (I was 17) and the other five months after my daughter was born (#4). I was 36 for that one. I’ll concede I worried more about the second surgery because of those depending on me.

As it is said, “This too shall pass.” Remember also where mortality rates come from. It isn’t generally from younger people that are healthy when they go into surgery. Consider, for comparison, the mortality rates of the young and healthy with COVID vs those with various co-morbidities. The stats say ‘x’% mortality rate - but fatalities are concentrated in certain segments.

You’ll be fine. You’ll recover and get healthy. You’ll talk with your wife kids about the year that dad had surgery and the various things that went well and those that were a pain.

I’ve been ticking for over 30 years. It cost me one job in that time. Tooth fairy. Kids would always hear me sneak in. . And I had one very costly health issue related to Warfarin. I had to reschedule a certain appointment and child #5 made sure to sneak in before the reschedule.

 

[pellicle]

... and the occasional necessary kick in the pants.

lol ... yeah ... but its a well meaning one I assure you

i hope the metaphors help and (as an additional out take) you can see that despite a few bumps in the road (which reading about in isolation may make you feel more anxious) one can (with persistence) fight through.

I realised relatively recently that the main thing in life is to keep fighting. For sure we die fighting, but I've seen what happens when one gives in and that's a slower lingering (soul) death with no light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not yet 60 and I still have things I enjoy doing and I fight for (being able to do) them.

COVID has gotten in my way, but I look fwd to doing this again soon

strap my skis onto my bicycle

ride out to the lake ... and spend a few hours skiing



to get the rewards you have to take thing from life, but never at the expense of others

I wish you peace

 

[pellicle]

I’ll admit that I always struggle with posts like this. My question is always which direction the OP wants it to go?

1.). What you’re feeling is normal. Many people feel that way...
2.). Success stories from current members so they have tangible examples of everything being okay...
3.). Platitudes about how everything is going to be okay.

I don’t know. I’ll go with #2 and say ...

well spoken ... and hats off to you for having built a great life too

 

[pellicle]

stuff

btw, just to provide balance I don't always feel bright and positive. Sometimes the darkest of feelings posess me (not the violent ones) and I do my best to accept them and acknowledge them and say to them "that's not what I want" ...
its unrelated directly but I believe the sentiment fits here. From one of my blog posts:

It is often said that women are soft and men are hard. Any man who has problems in dealing with life is mostly told to "deal with it". Classic Australian vernacular is "take some concrete powder and harden up".​

​

Its bullshit.​

​

One of the myths of western culture (perhaps others) is of the tough guy. The self reliant guy who can go through anything, unaffected. It is the stuff of adolescent male comics.​

​

It is of course a fantasy, something which has perhaps infected society as a romantic meme that such a thing as a tough guy exists. A warrior who battles through life, never needing to express emotions.​

​

In reality it only serves to enable (mainly) men to justify their distance, their disaffection from those that they love. They can pretend to be pillars of strength not needing to (and probably not knowing how to) love. The movie "once were warriors" is in my view an excellent example of this (and its results) in recent cinema.​

so what I'm saying here is share honestly with your family what you are feeling, accept their support.

 

[elMIguel]

So there is a pill for this afterall. Or maybe a choice of pills. Blue and red (#TheMatrix). Someone slipped me a red one a couple of months ago. I’m not sure I would’ve choose it voluntarily, but I’m not going back to blue.

pellicle- Love the pic and vid of Findland BTW. Where I live we only get a little snow maybe once every couple of years. It so happens that a major snowstorm came in today. No mere dusting, but a -can’t open the door because of the snowdrifts- kind of blast. It’s been so bad that my scheduled trip for my surgery had to be aborted. A new challenge, on top of my old one. Aren’t I lucky?

 

[Ryan CA]

JannerJohn,

Regardless of all the encouraging statistics, modern medical facilities and confident, capable surgeons; it is completely reasonable to be scared before heart surgery. Its a big deal and YOU are the one getting the new hardware.

I feel that fear of open heart surgery, much like fear over many other things in life, is often manifested and intensified by focusing on things that are out of our control. While the deed itself is obviously beyond our control, there is a ton that you can do before and after surgery to improve preparedness, effect your recovery and take as much control of your own destiny as possible.

To begin with; get involved in choosing the hospital, selecting the surgeon and picking the valve. In addition to occupying your mind, the research involved in making these choices can go a long way towards instilling confidence and eliminating much of the unknown. I watched several AVR surgeries on Youtube. That may not be helpful for everyone, but watching the mechanical nature of the procedure helped me a ton. You get to see that while the surgeons are wizards, the surgery is not magic and the matter-of-factness with which they operate is reassuring.

Preparation for pre and post-op will have a huge impact on your recovery and in your confidence level going in. Food is medicine....in my experience, most important for mind AND body was getting hyper focused on getting my mind and body ready. Reasearch and execute the nutrition and exercise that puts your body in the best position to recover. Eat the BEST you possibly can in the months leading up to surgery and have the best possible foods ready for post surgery....Focus on this like you are a boxer prepping for a championship bout. The focus and the work you put in WILL pay dividends after surgery and, for me anyway, taking that control went a long way toward alleviating anxiety.

 

[Brokenhip]

JJ - check out the attached article & see if that does not give you some confidence.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/s...y/news-story/42091f3d9f9eef828b7ab53b5c3c6c1e
I have read it & looked at the photos several times, goose bumps each time. A wonderful outcome.
You will be fine.

 

[pellicle]

It so happens that a major snowstorm came in today. No mere dusting, but a -can’t open the door because of the snowdrifts- kind of blast

I love that ... well done
ps: found it ...

we had a really nice snow storm in 2016, quite uncharacteristic for that part of Finland as I understand it. Nothing like what Canad can get, but I was excited to go out next morning to ski