Please explain it to me...

Valve Replacement Forums

Help Support Valve Replacement Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

sue943

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Messages
1,555
Location
Jersey, Channel Islands (British Isles)
I am reading Bonny's thread about medical costs etc, I have read the thread about Ross's son but I am still really none the wiser.

I understand that you need medical insurance of some kind in the US, but I also understand that some people do not have medical insurance.

If a person has no medical insurance, at all, then they become ill what happens? Do they just die? If they turn up in a ER badly injured or ill what happens? Are they treated?

Please explain the system to me, I am having problems getting my head around it. Thanks.
 
Sue they must be treated until stabilized. Once stabilized and out of danger, the hospital can kick them out the door. Most keep them and end up eating the bill, but they do not have to keep them.

Basically if you get sick in the U.S. without health insurance and some assets, your going to go bankrupt. If no assets, your hospital bill may be covered, but not the doctors, radiologist, pulmonlogist, cardiologist, etc,. These you still have to pay and can be many thousands of dollars.

There are times that bills simply cannot and do not get paid, in which case, the debt is written off as bad debt.
 
Some more info, Sue -

Some more info, Sue -

There are lots of medical doctors and offices who won't even accept a patient with no medical insurance. Some hospitals too, although they'll list some other reason to send a patient to another facility.

Another problem becomes obvious if you have to go to a local Emergency Room after hours or on the weekend with a serious medical situation that won't wait until normal office hours, and that is the ER rooms (here anyway) are absolutely filled with sick people who obviously have no insurance (poor or homeless or illegal aliens) and wouldn't be able to see a regular doctor because they don't have insurance so they inundate the ER with cold and flu symptoms, and sometimes worse medical issues of course.

There were statistics from the Los Angelos hospitals a few years ago that 70% or more infants born there are to uninsured (frequently illegal alien) persons who also had no prenatal care, no prenatal vitamins, and the newborns are frequently ill and needing much medical care. That's all extremely tragic, of course. But also, the parents, or usually the mother, can't come back and settle her bill in the hundreds-of-thousands-of-dollars-range because she has no money. The hospitals have to eat that.

It's an exacerbating problem of extreme and mind-boggling proportions. Medical care is a basic necessity of all people.

And you'd think it reasonable that medical offices would give discounted rates for cash patients? It's the opposite. Insurance companies negotiate rates with medical personnel, etc., so after a relatively simple procedure you will see a bill for say $5000 US dollars sent to the insurance company and the insurance company will send communication back saying, "No, our negotiated rate for that procedure with your medical office is $1500 and that's all you can charge our insured." Then, depending on the individual policy the insured purchased, and the yearly deductible, there is an amount the insured must pay. But if they didn't have insurance, in the same situation, the non-insured person would be billed the full $5000!!!

All the policies are different, based on lots of different things, such as perceived needs of the insured. If someone is on a lot of meds, they would want a policy that tends to cover meds. Some policies have co-pays, so each insured pays some amount for each doctor visit. Some policies have various deductible amounts and once that deductible is met in a year, then the insurance will kick in some percentage, maybe 80%, for the next, say $10,000 worth of bills, and then the insurance will usually pick up the rest of the bills. But insurance companies often have a cap now also, saying they'll only pay X-amount out for the lifetime of a patient. So if the person has a terribly chronic and expensive medical situation, they could actually exhaust the insurance benefit with a particular company.

A lot of people work out the bottom line, what amount of money they would be able to come up with in any given year in a worst case scenario medical event, and they factor in the premiums (what we pay for the insurance each month) and the maximum yearly deductibles and out-of-pocket expenses, and they base their insurance needs on that.

It's obscenely expensive, no matter how you figure it. That's why there are so many people without medical insurance here.

(edit - The entire process, including mounds of paperwork, has become a huge disheartening burden on doctors also. In addition to that, they have their own extra burden of malpractice insurance costs.)
 
sue943 said:
I am reading Bonny's thread about medical costs etc, I have read the thread about Ross's son but I am still really none the wiser.

I understand that you need medical insurance of some kind in the US, but I also understand that some people do not have medical insurance.

If a person has no medical insurance, at all, then they become ill what happens? Do they just die? If they turn up in a ER badly injured or ill what happens? Are they treated?

Please explain the system to me, I am having problems getting my head around it. Thanks.

Sue, we live in the wealthiest country in the world. We don't understand why, either.
 
I have always had insurance so I am not sure exactly what happens when someone doesn't have insurance. My sister didn't have insurance when she had her 1st mitral valve surgery 13 years ago. Her 1st surgery was not at the best hospital in her area and frankly her hospital care after the surgery was not good. It was like night and day compared to another surgery she had 2 years later related to her mitral valve. The 2nd time she had insurance. I had assumed the poor healthcare she received with her 1st surgery was because of her lack of insurance and therefore she wasn't able to make all of the decisions about her surgery and care....does anyone else have experience with this?
 
And we were just told via the media that health care is going to sky rocket in the next 10 years. Although I will say, we've had enough members here who live in countries with socialized medicine that I know that's not the way to go either. Look at Jacqui stuck feeling like $*&# and the inability to doctor shop like we can do in the US (those of us with insurance). I also remember when I first joined we had a member, lived in Great Britain I think, and her partner had a bad valve repair. The surgeon sewed her valve too tightly and she was forced to go back to the same surgeon who messed her up to have it fixed. If I hadn't been able to fire my first doctors, I'd most likely have died years ago.
 
Karlynn said:
And we were just told via the media that health care is going to sky rocket in the next 10 years. Although I will say, we've had enough members here who live in countries with socialized medicine that I know that's not the way to go either. Look at Jacqui stuck feeling like $*&# and the inability to doctor shop like we can do in the US (those of us with insurance). I also remember when I first joined we had a member, lived in Great Britain I think, and her partner had a bad valve repair. The surgeon sewed her valve too tightly and she was forced to go back to the same surgeon who messed her up to have it fixed. If I hadn't been able to fire my first doctors, I'd most likely have died years ago.

I hear you there, Karlynn. There just are no easy answers for this basic need of good medical care for all people.
 
I don't know what the answer is, your system is certainly not ideal, on the other hand a system like the NHS in the UK costs the taxpayers an absolute fortune and patients often have to wait. It is generally very good for people who have life-threatening illnesses, but useless if you have a hernia or need a hip replacement.

Where I live we have a mixture of socialised medicine and private. We pay to see our primary care doctors (GPs) but unless we wish to, we don't pay for specialists nor hospital treatment. Many people have private health insurance as part of a salary package, some like me pay for their own. That gives us more pleasant surroundings in which we meet with the doctors, normally (but not always) faster access to them. We never see junior doctors as private patients, only our own doctor. Then if hospitalised we get nice rooms with en-suite bathrooms and telvisions, and most of all, good food.

People who do not 'go private' are still well cared for, but as I said, if you need elective surgery there are waits. You also see junior doctors far more than the consultants (our most senior doctors). If we were larger then no doubt the system would crumble like the NHS.

Being such a small island we do not have sufficient pateints with the less common health problems. These are all exported to the UK. The treatment we receive there is absolutely fine in my personal experience.

One big problem with being such a small community is that we are only likely to have one specialist in some fields, so just one cardiologist. If you don't like him that is tough, there is no alternative. Having said that, we do tend to get very highly qualified doctors so it would be more likely to be a personality clash rather than lack of confidence in their skills.

What has staggered me on this site is when I see figures bandied about, I simply cannot understand why the medical costs are so much higher than when we 'go private' here.

What you have said helps me to understand the extremely short hospital stays you have. My endocarditis put me in hospital for almost six weeks, my OHS for eleven days, then eight days for my heart block. I cannot imagine what it must be like to be thrown out of hospital after just four or five days.

One huge problem faced by the NHS is the abuse of the system, people expect to see a doctor for really trivial things. Out of hours home visits are now handled by dedicated people rather than the doctors seeing to their own patients. Prior to this GPs could get a call at 2am from someone complaining that they couldn't get to sleep! Now you have to phone a service and answer questions, they then decide whether to send a doctor.

Where your insurance system, and our private health insurance system seem to differ is that we would not be covered for any pre-existing conditions. So I could not change insurance companies and ever get treatment for anything to do with my heart or kidneys, my lungs and various other bits of me that have had any medical attention in the past. You seem to have companies who will take you on knowing you are likely to be expensive.

All fascinating stuff. I doubt that there is any answer, other than perhaps in a super-wealthy country that can spare billions to pay for medical care.
 
I just received a PM from a person on another website I use (non-medical) and she happened to mention having a breast lump for a while, she says she will get it checked out after dealing with new tyres for her car and a dental abscess has been treated.

Is this common for people to delay getting advice important symptoms on financial grounds? As for getting her tyres renewed before having a tooth abscess seen to, aaaagh, but then she doesn't have heart valve problems.
 
Regarding pre-existing conditions, usually private medical insurance will not cover that here either; but a group policy through a person's employment might cover something like that but usually only after a specified period of time, say after the first few months or year with the new insurance policy.

Earlier, I didn't even mention HMOs and PPOs and referrals and contracted providers and lots of other much more complicated stuff related to medical insurance.

Also many, maybe most, medical policies don't cover dental coverage or eyeglasses, etc. I don't live a long distance from the Mexican border and many of my friends travel down to Mexico for much less expensive dental work. We don't. Some get good work down there and those who don't have no recourse. Sometimes they have to spend more money up in the States later to get the cheap work they had done elsewhere repaired. On a different note, my husband's niece was in Prague at a Convention this past summer and needed some emergency dental work done -- I think it cost her less than a hundred dollars, probably a procedure that would cost 10-20x that much here. And the work she had done evidently was excellent!
 

Latest posts

Back
Top