Murmurs -- how soon?

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Der Biermeister

My own experience - plus those of a few posts I've read - are behind these questions:

1. Do murmurs often go unnoticed by docs? Are murmurs really that hard to hear? (I know they are not in advanced stages)

2. Is it possible to have AI for several years before a heart murmur is apparent?

Looking back now on my history of SOB, I believe I had AI for at least a couple of years before being diagnosed one year ago. Once the doctors got other indications that I had AI -- only then did my murmur suddenly become noticeable to them. And my AI was severe enough at that time that I couldn't breath and had to take an emergency ride in an ambulance. Later -- like 6 months ago - the murmur became so pronounced that other medical people were often being called in to listen to a "classic example".

I guess I am just not a big fan of stethoscopes -- I think they are "old technology".
 
Don't really know too much about them. Mine was discovered by a walk in clinic Doc that I visited to get some antibotics for a bad chest cold. My PCP was too far away and this clinic took my insurance. He told me to go to my PCP and tell him I had a Murmur. That all started about 5 years ago. Nothing else was ever done, was feeling tired, SOB etc.(you know the over the hill out of shape smoker). PCP sent me to a Cardio and was admitted that day to the hospital. Oh well the rest is history.
 
Dick's murmur was discovered by a doctor at the VA who was giving him a primary care check-up, but this doctor was also a cardiologist who use to work at the Cleveland Clinic. The doctor he replaced had never heard the murmur. :( He was asymptomatic so we feel lucky that this doctor picked it up and we started a long course of echos, surgeon appt. and finally avr at Brigham.
 
my mvp was found after I had a passing out episode (attributed to my 'other' heart issue ..prolong QT)
and it was seen on an echo.. no one ever heard a murmur..
even after my mvp was mod-severe..I only had a slight murmur.. go figure?

I dont' know how my visiting nurses listened to my heart at least 8 times while I was in Tamponade..and no one heard anything unusual?
 
Interestingly enough, my murmurs were first discovered by a very alert school nurse (in 1959) who was doing routine health screenings of second graders.......I was immediately referred to Children's Hospital in Boston and was admitted for what turned out to be a six month long stay in the hospital. I apparently was in the midst of rheumatic fever and didn't even know it because I hadn't been aware of any strep infections, etc. So......I thank that school nurse of so many decades ago....I don't think schools do this kind of routine screening of kids anymore!

Susan
 
The murmur of mitral stenosis sometimes can't be picked up unless a patient is almost laying on the left side and the stethescope is angled just a certain way. Some of the other murmurs can also be missed unless they are at least moderate in strength. To make it harder, sometimes one murmur runs into another murmur so everything sounds like background noise. Even cardiologists can miss them unless they really listen long enough to identify what they are hearing and what if anything is not quite as it should be. You also have to listen at several different locations on the chest and even then a low grade murmur can be overlooked. Add to that the fact that sometimes mumurs' intensity can vary according to the heartrate, blood pressure, fluid status, and rhythm. I can't really hold it against them if one is missed. I have a harder time thinking nice thoughts about docs who hear something and hen brush it off as benign without doing a little more checking.
 
My husband was a 4 lb premature baby, and his murmur was hear at birth.

Only one doc that we know of never heard his murmur. We brought in both of our kids to their normal peditician who was present at both their births, specifically to be evaluated for murmurs at the Mayos request after Nathan's endocarditis episode. Our son had none, buut our daughter (almost 10 yrs old) did have a "suspicious murmur" when comparing to her Dad's, side by side. I am nurse, and found it difficult to hear hers, but could hear Nathan's well. Nathan's was most apparent when he was sitting and leaning foward over his knees.
 
Murmurs -- how soon?

Mine was discovered about five years ago (now 56) when I went into a local family practice to get some meds for swimmers ear. When told about my murmur, I immediately discounted it thinking that it was very common. Heck...I'd heard about kids in school having murmurs countless times and I assumed that it was just a benign quirk. He insisted I get to a cardiologist and for that I will be forever thankful.

BillB
 
Don't believe in listening for a murmur. Even at the hospital just before my surgery I was told my murmur would indicate mild AI at most but it was severe. When it was found many years ago I was told I had a slight murmur, hard to hear but the doc wanted it checked out and found out I had moderate AI at that time.

edited to add: My murmur was first found when I was 23.
 
I was told I had a murmur when I was 21. It was diagnosed as "a murmur you were probably born with and nothing to worry about". About 2 years later, during my yearly gyno appointment, my gyno asked me if I knew I had a murmur. I said yes and explained the above diagnosis. He said that diagnosis was wrong and sent me to see a cardio. Four years later I was having my first OHS with a valve so damaged the surgeon said it "fell apart" when he tried to repair it. Even with multiple echos and a cardiac cath, the severity of my valve problem was still not fully understood. However, that was in 1980 and things have progressed some since then.
 
My murmur was discovered at birth and then apparently 'went away' or I outgrew it :rolleyes: ( I wonder if I had deaf doctors for the next 35 years!?)

When I moved and got a new doctor she sent me off for an echo to see what was causing the murmur she heard and lo and behold a Bicuspid Aortic Valve was discovered. She was an Indian Doctor too...I remember reading about Indian Doctors and how they seem to pick-up murmurs more often?!...wonder if its something in their training?

Now of the 2 sons with BAV...one has a murmur with a systolic click and a few other extra sounds, the other has just a systolic click...The 3rd son has a quiet normal sounding heartbeat. This was very noticeable during their echoes last year.

In my understanding a murmur isnt always just a murmur it can be a combination of clicks and extra sounds as well and it takes a very observant ear to distinguish these.
 
I too had an experience with "deaf doctors" ... although not quite as bad as some of the above!
Andrew was first sent to the cardio at 10 mos. We had just switched pediatricians because our insurance had changed. Andrew had one of his many ear infections, so I was expecting the usual ear-infection-type appt. The new doc listened to his heart for so long I knew something was up. He asked me if I knew he had a murmur. Nope -- had no idea. He then went thru his records transferred by the old doc ... nothing in there about a murmur. Sent us on to the cardio whose first question to me was "Why haven't I seen this infant until now?" His murmur was from his VSD and mitral regurg. The BAV was called a "bonus find" during the echo. To this day not one dr has heard any of the "typical" BAV murmurs in him.
My next 2 sons' murmurs were detected within 1 week of birth.

BTW: this awesome dr who found Andrew's murmur also told me my oldest son has a murmur called a "venous hum" (sp?) which is benign!!
 
My murmur was noted at birth. The same holds true for two of my children who have "insignicant" murmurs. All through the years, different doctors have always picked up on their murmurs. At around 17 my murmur was graded as insignifcant by the same cardio group I go to now. Somewhere between 17and 35 years old something happened and my murmur became quite entertaining for ALL doctors, nurses, residents, etc. I should have started charging admission. Now it's back even after surgery and picked up by 3 non-cardio doctors during my various appts. Oh well....always the little entertainer! :rolleyes:
Debbi
 
Mine was detected (VSD) two weeks after my birth by a military doc when our family was stationed Laughlin Air Force Base in TX. Since I was primarily seen by military docs until I was 18+ they knew by reading my chart that I had a murmur. My mom always kept copies of my records as well and if I needed to see a civilian doc she would bring them to the appointment.

When I started seeing my last PCP I put on the questionnaire you fill out before your first visit that I had an unclosed VSD (murmur #1) and AI (murmur #2). I went to see him because I had gone to a doc in a box three times without relief from at first bronchial pneumonia, and then chronic bronchitis the next two times. After listening to my heart the PCP said that I didn't have any murmurs. I told him that I was pretty sure I had two. He said they have either resolved on their own or have become so faint they couldn't be detected by a stethoscope. He was successful at getting rid of the bronchitis, but fast forward a few months and I am diagnosed with endocarditis (caused by the bronchitis) after I insisted on an echo. At that point he said he could now hear the murmurs. :rolleyes:
 
My murmur was first heard at the age of 13 by my GP who immediately sent me off for tests. At that stage the regurgitation was only very mild. Most doctors who listen to my heart comment on how loud my murmur is - I questioned my cardiologist about this and he said the loudness of the murmur has little to do with the severity of the leak.
 
My murmur was not detected until my late 20's and by a doctor who had never seen me before as I was in a new town. Almost 30 years later when I started seeing my latest and very young PCP she practically jumped across the room my murmur was so loud. That was about 4 years ago and just before my symptoms became noticeable to me. We now know for a fact (surgeon reported it to me) that BAV was a birth defect. There is no way to know when or why the murmur started.

I'm not sure I'm a very big fan of stethescopes either. For that reason I had my 3 grown children (23, 21, 18) screened with echocardiograms. Low and behold, none have BAV, but one has mild AI, another has MVP (and why can't anyone hear that??) and the oldest, it seems, has Athlete's heart which is mildly enlarged (all other measures and pressures are perfect). As their lives progress, I will quiz them about possible symptoms, and have to rely on a doctor and his/her stethescope to register any abnormal sounds since none of the ehoes are perfect.

On a somewhat random note, my husband and daughter laugh at me, tease me.... I'm forever asking how I was in CICU because I do not remember anything beyond one glimpse of their smiling faces. They say it does not matter....don't bother trying to remember.....you are fine now. I'm stuck! They won't tell me anything and I can't remember!! As the weeks go by, I find that it really does not matter. I AM fine!!! DB. You have SO MANY QUESTIONS!!! ;) :p

Now how about those kids of yours.....any murmurs??

Marguerite
 
Marguerite, my mvp was never audible - even after it was found on an echo and everyone knew about the prolapse.
 
Murmurs that go away??

Murmurs that go away??

When Eric was diagnosed at birth with a murmur and a few tests were done, we had no idea that his heart defect would be so severe. Not to mention that he still has some AI - but with his surgeries his AV is really kind of a spare part now. But the funny thing is that my father was told he had a murmur as a child. I never knew this until we told them that Eric apparently had one and we were going to be following up with ped. cardio. But after reading everything, what's wierd is my dad aparrently did out grow his. He said it went away when he was around 11 yrs. old. As an adult he's had 2 heart attacks (7 years apart) and had angioplasty and stents. With all the heart work-ups he's had - nothing has showed a murmur or any other defects - just the he had blockages in the arteries that caused the heart attacks. Interesting - or at least I thought so.
 
I was in hospital with SBE and the murmurs developed a couple of weeks after my admission, they then galloped and I was evacuated by air to a specialist heart centre so that I would be in a suitable hospital if it became necessary to operate before the SBE was cleared. They decided to play a waiting game so they could operate with me clear of infection. I was in hospital for about six weeks that time. They didn't operate for a couple of months.

Dozens of students were sent to listen to my heart as it was so interesting - I was in a teaching hospital. I was also used as an examination patient for one poor doctor.

My ex mother-in-law had rheumatic fever as a child and had a heart murmur from that time, she is now almost 102 and still alive, she has never had any treatment for her heart.
 
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