Drinking while taking Warfarin(Coumadin)

[Mary]

Bonnie,
This is off topic, but I'll chance it.
Headache and blood pressure high, so they sent me home.
Wish I drank and was on coumadin so assistant administrator wouldn't get after me
Mary

 

[Granbonny]

Mary

Mary

Don't worry about A/A..I'll shoot another arrow thru his helmet. He changes his Avators so much..I think he is in protective custody. Get yourself a glass of wine and lay low. And take care of that b/p...Could be causing your headache. Bonnie

 

[Blanche]

For a while, this thread was driving me crazy. Yea, I know, some will say it isn't a drive, just a short putt. Now, I fear, that it is driving me to drink chili.
Thanks for the recent smiles. Heck, I'm in Arizona. Most of us put chilis on our cereal here. We like everything hot!

Blanche

 

[Moo]

Update

Update

Here was a big test!!!

4/20 - 1 Margarita

4/21 - 6 Beers (1-1/2 pitchers)

4/23 - 6+ Beers, Not really sure

4/25 - INR = 2.3

Have hope fellow coumarinos.

 

[Wise]

Most of us put chilis on our cereal here. We like everything hot!
Blanche

Would that be Captain Chili; Spoonsize Shredded Chilis; Honey, Nuts & Chilis or Chilios?

 

[Granbonny]

Moo

Moo

You have a big grin..by your 2.3?...Are you happy with that..That is low.. what is the low side that your doctor wants you on?..Most are 2.5-3.5...What kind of snacks are you having while drinking? Green Potato chips? I enjoy a few beers too. Just ask my Sunday night chat buddies. But would rather my INR be higher than lower. I stay in the 3.0-3.5 range......Enjoy your beers ..but get that INR up a litle higher. Hate to see you stroke out. B/T/W..do you home test or clinic? How often? Take care..Bonnie

 

[Granbonny]

Blanche

Blanche

Your last sentence.. We like everything HOT Are we talking about chilis..or SEX? B/T/W...Is this the summer/Fall that you are planning on coming to Helen for your Husband's reunion? Let me know if I can help with plans (motels, ect)..Bonnie

 

[Moo]

You've got questions,

You've got questions,

You have a big grin..by your 2.3?...Are you happy with that..That is low..

Not for me, 2.0-3.0 with the On-X now.

What kind of snacks are you having while drinking? Green Potato chips?

I don't eat when I drink. I find I eat too much.

I stay in the 3.0-3.5 range......Enjoy your beers ..but get that INR up a litle higher.

Under the direction of both my surgeon and my cardiologist, I keep it between 2.0-2.5. Both say it would be better to be lower than higher (>3.5 is worse than 1.5-2.0).

B/T/W..do you home test or clinic? How often? Take care..Bonnie

Both. Once a week at home, every 6 weeks at the cardiologist. (Will be 8 weeks after the next one).

 

[Ross]

I don't eat when I drink. I find I eat too much.

Bah, it kills the buzz!

 

[Karlynn]

Under the direction of both my surgeon and my cardiologist, I keep it between 2.0-2.5. Both say it would be better to be lower than higher (>3.5 is worse than 1.5-2.0).

I think most of us prefer being high as opposed to being. I think it's much harder to raise an INR than lower it. Then there's the newest phrase we all seem to like "Blood cells are easier to replace than brain cells." But we all know that most valvers fear clots, while most doctors fear bleeding.

 

[Guest]

I'll reiterate. It is not the INR that is the problem. By its not going up you get a false sense of security. It is the stomach irritation that is the problem. The INR is less than worthless in this scenario. If your stomach ever feels upset the day after drinking, you are probably on the way to a GI bleed. This can happen even if your INR is 1.0. This can't be predicted in the short-term but it will happen. It is always interesting to watch young men try to deny this. Same wrong rebuttals over and over.

 

[Moo]

Oh really...

Oh really...

I'll reiterate. It is not the INR that is the problem. By its not going up you get a false sense of security.

As a matter of fact, I got the INR and coumadin info from you...

You never took your INR while in college!! In college you were worried about getting a KEG - now you worry about getting an EKG.

Alcohol affects the INR by slowing the metabolism of warfarin.

Drink six and then go see if there is blood in your bowlel movement. This is what you are going to do anyway. Just remember that after each birthday, your tolerance will go down.

I'm sure if I swallowed a razor I could have a GI bleed too. I am testing the effect of alcohol on INR. I have stated this before. Previously you said it would increase the effect of coumadin, now you say it poses no serious impact.

Same wrong rebuttals over and over.

I guess if you take both sides of an arguement you can't be wrong...


Rich

 

[Barry]

Moo, allodwick, I rather suspect we're getting caught up in a false dichotomy of INR v/s gastrointestinal bleeding.

I've read in a number of places that alcohol interacts with Warfarin to produce a higher INR.

I've also read in a number of places - places completely unrelated to Warfarin - that drinking increases risk of gastrointestinal bleeding.

Back to the ongoing theme of how group statistics (upon which all studies other than single-subject case studies are based) don't apply to individuals (otherwise we'd all have IQ's of 100)...

Looks like there's at least one person whose INR isn't affected by alcohol, wouldn't surprise me if there were many many more. I hadn't known that until Moo's selfless experiment in the name of Science, although with the rule of group statistics not applying to individuals I should have been able to figure it out. Note that we had a thread here about a lady who went over 20 years with an artifician valve with no Coumadin/Warfarin on board and she apparantly did OK - and that does not mean that it's then quite safe to discontinue your Coumadin/Warfarin if you've got an artificial valve.

And that Moo drinks does not necessarily mean he'll get gastrointestinal bleeding - just that he's at greater risk than if he didn't. I used to do alcohol and drug counseling, and can attest that gastrointestinal bleeding is pretty common among heavy drinkers. But not every heavy drinker gets it, and I would not agree with allodwick apparant statement that it's inevitable. I have no experience to draw upon with regard to gastrointestinal bleeding among light-to-moderate drinkers.

And finally, Moo, I wouldn't necessarily read allodwick's posts to mean that alcohol has no effect on INR's, just that the effect on INR's isn't as dangerous as the potential for gastrointestinal bleeding.

Alcohol is just one of any number of places where one has to make a decision in the trade-off of costs versus benefits in determining what, if any, diet and lifestyle changes one makes after being put on Coumadin/Warfarin. For example, I gave up motorcycle riding. If that was very important to me, I wouldn't have given it up but instead would have taken on the increased risk of bleeding from road-rash that motorcyclists take on. I've also given up power drinking, but my drink of choice (straight bourbon) is one that's probably much more likely to cause gastrointestinal irritation than Moo's beer.

 

[Moo]

Clarification

Clarification

And finally, Moo, I wouldn't necessarily read allodwick's posts to mean that alcohol has no effect on INR's, just that the effect on INR's isn't as dangerous as the potential for gastrointestinal bleeding.

I would think that anything that affects my INR even remotely would be important to understand. People here treat him (Al) as a warfarin god, and by him explicitly saying that alcohol affects the metabolism of warfarin, I wanted to see if it really is true. Everyone here gets so worked up when alcohol and coumadin are discussed together that to me it seems silly. Yes, GI bleeding is an issue, but no more than if I directly cut my lip on a pint glass. People should be smart enough to know if they do experience bleeding from drinking, not to do it again and most people would have had issues before they started coumadin.

But again, my testing is not about GI bleeding. It is stricly about the effect of alcohol on INR.

Rich

 

[Barry]

Rich, I've learned that folks around here have rather passionately-held beliefs and that it's pretty common for disagreements to produce somewhat less than cordial discussion. I've learned not to stir up controversies unnecessarily around here, but I've also been rather surprised sometimes just what some folks consider to be controversial.

Don't necessarily agree with you about folks with GI bleeding likely to have had it before going on Coumadin. The damage from alcohol is progressive, takes place over a very long time, and can take a very long time to reach clinical significance. And, no, that doesn't mean you're doomed. You're doomed for an entirely different set of reasons (joke, joke).

BTW, I have found your single-subject experiment on the effects of alcohol on one's INR to be pretty interesting. I've noted that your desired INR is rather low by many folks' standards (I've got an artificial mitral and try to maintain a relatively high INR), presume your Coumadin/Warfarin dose is also relatively low. Wondering if the interactive effect of alcohol and Warfarin is dose-related - i.e. there's less of an interactive effect when taking relatively low doses of Warfarin.

Say, in the name of Science you wouldn't mind quadrupling your Warfarin dosage would you? (joke, joke)

 

[Mary]

Wondering if the interactive effect of alcohol and Warfarin is dose-related - i.e. there's less of an interactive effect when taking relatively low doses of Warfarin.
Say, in the name of Science you wouldn't mind quadrupling your Warfarin dosage would you? (joke, joke)

Quadrupling sounds extreme; doubling the dose should give us good data.

 

[ShezaGirlie]

Hey Moo......

Hey Moo......

Are you a Jersey cow? Get it? Moooooooo from New Jersey.. Very clever on your part..!

Moo said:

Everyone here gets so worked up when alcohol and coumadin are discussed together that to me it seems silly.

Oh really? Pretty broad statement there...hmmm? Only way some of us will get "worked up" is if the well runs dry.

 

[Granbonny]

Moo

Moo

I looked at your profile on VR.Com...I clicked on your first and ONLY post..And it was about alcohol..Most all of your replies were about alcohol Then I looked at your surgeries...Underneath your signature...I have a question?..Why did your Bovine go South after less than 6 years.. Had it on my birthday, June 10th, 1998... ..Then, you had the new one on Nov. 24th, 2004.......Tissue valves are suppose to last a little longer than 6 years.... Most members who have to have a 2nd surgery..will normally post why? If you don't mind sharing this info...it will be of great info..for many people with a Bovine...Was it your age, ect?..thanks..Bonnie

 

[Guest]

I think the question was about what effect alcohol would have on the INR. It will usually raise it for a binge drinker. For someone who drinks regularly, the liver gets revved up and metabolizes the warfarin faster so that the INR will not go up. If it doesn't go up when you drink, then the liver is probably hyperactive.

When a binge drinker has an elevated INR the danger is usually not bleeding. It is rare to bleed with an INR less than 5. What will often happen is that the person managing warfarin will see an INR barely above the desired range and make a large reduction in the warfarin dose and put the person at risk for clotting.

As I said before, the real risk is bleeding that is caused by irritation and that does not show up on the INR. My guess is that having a pitcher of beer and not having your INR go up means that you are getting into this class.

Now before somebody asks about my own idea about drinking, I will tell you. I am well known around town as a cheapskate. If we are at a dinner and drinks are provided, I'll have 1 or 2. If you have to pay for them - forget it. My bosses wife will usually buy me one if they are not free. We have a joke that I will get her one if they are free. A guy who works for me was coming over once to watch a football game. I bought a 6 pack of beer. About 6 months later he gave me some trout that he caught and I suddenly remembered that the last beer was still in the fridge so I used it to make a batter for the trout. So I'm not philosophically opposed to alcohol, I just can't see spending money on it.

 

[Guest]

I see that we made it to page 5. Does anyone vote for 6?

I enjoy the give and take. I've testified at a FDA hearing, given a deposition against the NYPD (and their medical school professor experts) and consulted in a murder trial.

Everything I know about warfarin was learned from people who take it.

I'm glad you said I was a little g god. If I was a big G God, I'd have to move out of Pueblo!!