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shaytavr

New member
Joined
Jun 15, 2024
Messages
3
Location
Arizona
My first TAVR was in 2020. Four years later, my cardiologist told me I need another one due to calcium build up. After a 2 month wait I have been scheduled three days from now for a Valve in Valve replacement. Dr. says he will expand the first valve to fit the second valve and put a stent into the adjoining artery to keep it from collapsing due to overcrowding from the expansion. He says the new valve will have medication to prevent calcium build up and should last much longer. He intends to put in a Sapian Resilia valve, while a Sentinel filter protects the arteries.

I am more anxious about this second TAVR than the first one, perhaps because my heart stopped in the recovery room last time and they had to give me CPR and a pacemaker, and a two-night stay in the hospital. (Dr. said this situation is very rare, with 95% of his surgeries successful and uncomplicated). COVID was happening so my husband and family could not visit me, and my cell phone stopped working so I could not contact them. It was a nightmare experience, and I had hoped the valve would last 10 years or more.

I am hoping for a better experience this time, but apprehensive due to the extra procedures involved. Dr. says the procedure will take one to one and a half hours and I will probably be in the hospital only one night if all goes well. Also my husband plans to stay in a hotel near the hospital so he can visit me.
 
Welcome to the forum.

My first TAVR was in 2020. Four years later, my cardiologist told me I need another one due to calcium build up.
Very sorry to hear this.

After a 2 month wait I have been scheduled three days from now for a Valve in Valve replacement.
Please share with us how that goes. You might be our first member to receive a TAVR in TAVR.


Wishing you all the best with your upcoming procedure and recovery.
 
Hi and welcome

My first TAVR was in 2020. Four years later, my cardiologist told me I need another one due to calcium build up.

that's bad news for sure. I'd like to answer but I can't really say anything because the most important bit of information is missing:

1718483327541.png


Like any equation there are central dependencies, like:
  • your age
  • the nature of why you were considered to be unsuited for SAVR (perhaps age perhaps other general frailty which you haven't mentioned). TAVR is usually only chosen for people who are so frail they are considered too risky to operate on.
  • other health "comorbidities" (which will also inform as to why a TAVR was chosen over the well established gold standard of SAVR)

on this point:
He says the new valve will have medication to prevent calcium build up and should last much longer. He intends to put in a Sapian Resilia valve, while a Sentinel filter protects the arteries.

I think there may be a misunderstanding on your part about this and what it does. This is only deployed during the procedure and is removed in the cleanup finalisation steps.

https://www.bostonscientific.com/en...tion/sentinel-cerebral-protection-system.html

As to a medication to prevent calcium build up that would be a literal magic pill that I've never heard of and would be a real major advancement in medical science for the hundreds of thousands of bioprosthesis fitted patients.

I'm next wondering if you have been tested for Lp(a) levels in your blood and if you have if that's been identified as high. IF that is the case then I would wonder if the 'magic pill' is PCSK9 inhibitors? See this article:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK448100/


Best Wishes
 
Hi and welcome



that's bad news for sure. I'd like to answer but I can't really say anything because the most important bit of information is missing:

View attachment 890310

Like any equation there are central dependencies, like:
  • your age
  • the nature of why you were considered to be unsuited for SAVR (perhaps age perhaps other general frailty which you haven't mentioned). TAVR is usually only chosen for people who are so frail they are considered too risky to operate on.
  • other health "comorbidities" (which will also inform as to why a TAVR was chosen over the well established gold standard of SAVR)

on this point:


I think there may be a misunderstanding on your part about this and what it does. This is only deployed during the procedure and is removed in the cleanup finalisation steps.

https://www.bostonscientific.com/en...tion/sentinel-cerebral-protection-system.html

As to a medication to prevent calcium build up that would be a literal magic pill that I've never heard of and would be a real major advancement in medical science for the hundreds of thousands of bioprosthesis fitted patients.

I'm next wondering if you have been tested for Lp(a) levels in your blood and if you have if that's been identified as high. IF that is the case then I would wonder if the 'magic pill' is PCSK9 inhibitors? See this article:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK448100/


Best Wishes
I am old (80 yr) but not frail (lifetime athlete) with no comorbidities or prescription medications so far. An excellent but overactive immune system has given me many allergies and sensitivities to chemicals, including most antibiotics, so it has been necessary to live a nontoxic, drug-free life.

I asked my Dr. why a second TAVR instead of SAVR, because I may need a new valve within 10 years. He said after age 90 they will probably not replace the valve. I asked him was he just planning to let me die then, and he said that comorbidities would probably cause death near that age anyway. Not a very promising prognosis.

Since his conference of doctors recommended the second TAVR, and he has a good reputation for TAVR surgery, with no better alternative I felt obliged to acquiesce. Hopefully the next ten years will produce better valve surgery choices and/or this TAVR-in-TAVR will last longer than ten years.

Thank you for your comment about LP(a).
I have a history of high LDL cholesterol over many years and wonder if it is hereditary LP(a), so I called my siblings and found the following:
Obese brother age 76 has high LDL cholesterol, had 2 heart attacks with stents installed.
Brother age 71 has high LDL cholesterol and progressing aortic stenosis.
Sister age 73 has high LDL cholesterol.
Dad died at 73 of heart attack and Mom at 92 of “natural causes”.
Perhaps our heart problems are hereditary.
 
Welcome to the forum.


Very sorry to hear this.


Please share with us how that goes. You might be our first member to receive a TAVR in TAVR.


Wishing you all the best with your upcoming procedure and recovery.
Thank you, Chuck. Your well wishes mean a lot to me
 
I am old (80 yr) but not frail (lifetime athlete) with no comorbidities or prescription medications so far. An excellent but overactive immune system has given me many allergies and sensitivities to chemicals, including most antibiotics, so it has been necessary to live a nontoxic, drug-free life.

I asked my Dr. why a second TAVR instead of SAVR, because I may need a new valve within 10 years. He said after age 90 they will probably not replace the valve. I asked him was he just planning to let me die then, and he said that comorbidities would probably cause death near that age anyway. Not a very promising prognosis.

Since his conference of doctors recommended the second TAVR, and he has a good reputation for TAVR surgery, with no better alternative I felt obliged to acquiesce. Hopefully the next ten years will produce better valve surgery choices and/or this TAVR-in-TAVR will last longer than ten years.

Thank you for your comment about LP(a).
I have a history of high LDL cholesterol over many years and wonder if it is hereditary LP(a), so I called my siblings and found the following:
Obese brother age 76 has high LDL cholesterol, had 2 heart attacks with stents installed.
Brother age 71 has high LDL cholesterol and progressing aortic stenosis.
Sister age 73 has high LDL cholesterol.
Dad died at 73 of heart attack and Mom at 92 of “natural causes”.
Perhaps our heart problems are hereditary.
Thank you for your detailed information. These type of details are very helpful to other members. At age 80, I understad better why your cardiologist is having you get a TAVR in TAVR.

I have a history of high LDL cholesterol over many years and wonder if it is hereditary LP(a),
Elevated Lp(a) is hereditary. In fact, our genes are about 95% in control of our Lp(a) levels and it runs strongly in families. Lifestyle changes, such as diet and exercise, have close to zero impact on Lp(a) levels, which makes it different than LDL.

Given that your TAVR valve, which is a tissue valve, calcified so soon, I would definitely suggest getting your Lp(a) tested. Per your question, high Lp(a) does often come with high genetic LDL, but often LDL is normal and Lp(a) is elevated. My brother and I have very high Lp(a) levels and relatively normal LDL levels. This seems to be the pattern in our family, normal LDL, but very high Lp(a).

Lp(a) is causal for heart disease and valve disease. In that your family has a history of heart disease and aortic stenosis, all should probably get checked. It is important to know, not just for your generation, but the younger folks in your family as well. It is often completely overlooked by GPs and cardiologists, even though worldwide guidelines are now calling for all individuals to be tested at least once in their lifetime.

Although it has been known to be highly correlated with aortic stenosis for years, earlier this year the first study was published showing a strong correlation with early calcification of bioprosthetic tissue valves. If an individual is shown to have very high Lp(a), they should probably take this into account in their valve choice. It could have been several things which caused your TAVR to calcify after only 4 years, but you should do the simple blood test to determine if the likely culprit is elevated Lp(a).

One reason why its good to know is that there is now a treatment for high Lp(a)- PCSK9-I, such as Repatha. Repatha is used to lower LDL, but one big side benefit is that it also lowers Lp(a). For me, Repatha lowered my Lp(a) 40%. So now my level is only 2x what it should be, instead of 3.5x as high as it should be. Also, there are several more effective treatments in the pipeline, with one which lowers Lp(a) by 80% expected to get FDA approval next year. Also, statins, which are used to treat high LDL, do not lower Lp(a). In fact, they usually raise it for most individuals. Not a problem if your Lp(a) is normal, but can increase one's risk if your Lp(a) is elevated. This is why when individuals present with both elevated LDL and Lp(a), they are often treated with both statin and PCSK9-I, and sometimes just PCSK9-I.

On my mom's side of the family, there is a history of men dying at young ages of heart disease. We now know that very high Lp(a) runs in the family and have taken steps to mitigate. To be clear, elevated Lp(a) is not a death sentence. It correlates strongly with early onset heart disease and valve disease, but many people who are elevated go through life without these issues. Also, as mentioned, there is a moderately effective treatment, with more promising treatments in the pipeline with FDA approval expected soon.

Here is some additional info on Lp(a) from the American Heart Association

https://www.heart.org/en/health-topics/cholesterol/genetic-conditions/lipoprotein-a
 
Last edited:
Good morning

I am old (80 yr) but not frail (lifetime athlete) with no comorbidities or prescription medications so far.
ok ... because the only hint available was the picture, which doesn't look like an 80yo (my thumb in mine doesn't belie my age either ...)

An excellent but overactive immune system has given me many allergies and sensitivities to chemicals, including most antibiotics, so it has been necessary to live a nontoxic, drug-free life.
well drug free eventually changes as we age. I've lived similarly but since the last few years (I'm 60 now) have turned more to ibuprofen and of course other things like warfarin and metoprolol ... I am one who wishes to minimise drugs (not least for the simplicity) but fully willing to adopt what is needed to have my ability to live facilitated.

I think its a very 18th Century view to ignore the benefits of modern pharmaceuticals; as truly in the years prior to the 1970's things weren't efficacious

I asked my Dr. why a second TAVR instead of SAVR,
thats where I was going, and good on you for asking (most don't really query the surgeon)

because I may need a new valve within 10 years. He said after age 90 they will probably not replace the valve.
a sound statement. My fathers "partner" died on the table while having a stent put in. As I understand it the artery tore and they were unable to save her. This happens at those ages more than at 35

I asked him was he just planning to let me die then, and he said that comorbidities would probably cause death near that age anyway. Not a very promising prognosis.
well it is statistically and (in combination with the reality of arteries and their elastic conditions) probably sound.

I hate to be a downer, but we all die. At 90 that seems like more of a probability than 35. I've had good friends die well before 40. To me that's a tragedy. If I died today I'd instead have the view of a life well lived and in a healthy and active state.

If I "lived" but was confined to a wheel chair or a bed then (at 60) I know that would bode very badly for my chances long term.

Since his conference of doctors recommended the second TAVR, and he has a good reputation for TAVR surgery, with no better alternative I felt obliged to acquiesce.

yep, and at 80 that makes sense ...

Hopefully the next ten years will produce better valve surgery choices and/or this TAVR-in-TAVR will last longer than ten years.
I suspect that it may ... but as you know:

Thank you for your comment about LP(a).

it may be a critical point for informing about the expected calcification of a bio-valve (which TAVR are), but if you are not a candidate for successful OHS then your options are indeed "restricted".

I would ask about the benefits of using ACT (like warfarin) as IIRC its been shown to extend the durability of these valves (as well as counter any thrombosis issues).

Nothing specific to your sitatuation is in the below, but perhaps you'll pick something out that I've missed. Either way they are educational:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6306127/

The literature has extensively addressed the risks and benefits of anticoagulation following bioprosthetic valve replacement to prevent bioprosthetic valve thrombosis (BPVT), *without conclusive evidence-based recommendations*. The duration of anticoagulation following an episode of BPVT is unclear, *and lifelong anticoagulation has been suggested*. The increasing use of transcatheter aortic valve replacement as an alternative to surgical aortic valve replacement in various risk groups has introduced new challenges with regards to valve thrombosis, *which have been poorly studied with regards to optimal treatment and prevention*. The increasing use of valve-in-valve procedures is expected to bring on further uncharted challenges.

Bioprosthetic-Valve Thrombosis: Lessons From a Case Series
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/838221

Some discussions by Dr Schaff of the Mayo


more current video

...
Perhaps our heart problems are hereditary.

Indeed heart problems are usually exactly hereditary, I was concerned in my youth that my bi-cuspid valve would be heritable and would therefore inflict a "career" of surgeries on my children. I've had 3 OHS (starting at 10yo) spaced about 20 years apart each. I've learned a lot from all of that.

Best Wishes
 
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@shaytavr

Welcome! So sorry to hear of your experience! My surgery was during covid too (3 1/2 years ago) and no visitors either! I can so relate to the extra stress of being alone! I also had a few problems and ended up staying 4 extra days for a mechanical valve. My first problem happened early morning on my day of discharge. I just texted my husband saying I was alive but not coming home and I was too tired to call. He freaked out! The next time the nurse came in, I asked her to call my husband and she did. It was challenging for you and me with covid! But we did it!

I had wanted a TAVR (I was 64) but my heart team wanted me to talk with a surgeon first and I ended up choosing a On-X valve.

Wishing you a smooth surgery!!
 

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