Cardiac rehab questions

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Masonje

I am 9 weeks out from a mitral valve repair with annuloplasty and I was thrilled to locate this site. I have several questions regarding cardiac rehab and just reading through some of the threads answered many. A little background first...
I am 41 years of age and in excellent health (aside from my recently fixed mitral valve). I have rowed competitively since 1984. I was looking forward to this summer's racing season when I learned that I had to have my mitral valve repaired in May.
I had no history of heart trouble whatsoever until October of 2005 when I had an episode of atrial fibrillation that was converted back to normal sinus rhythm within a few hours after one dose of rhythmol. I had an echo revealing mitral valve prolapse with, at that time, moderate mitral regurgitation. I was completely without symptoms and my cardiologist cleared me to resume rowing but advised no heavy weightlifting. She also wanted a follow up echo in 6 months.

Since then, my lack of any symptoms continued (no more A fib) and I even won two races. I then had my follow up echo in early May, 2006 and I then had severe mitral regurgitation. I had the repair on May 26 in St. Louis by Dr. Nick Kouchoukos.
I found my situation interesting (as well as obviously frightening) on a number of levels:

-I was otherwise in excellent health and was without symptoms not just at rest but while rowing! The evening prior to my May echo I rowed quite hard in my single scull and felt spectacular.

-I am also a general surgeon and while cardiac surgery is not my specialty, during my residency I spent several months caring for cardiac surgery patients in the intensive care unit. Being on the other side (the wrong side of the knife, so to speak) was very eye opening. I have had some orthopedic procedures done but that was small potatoes compared to this.

Anyway, my goals were to:
1) Survive
2) Get back to work
3) Row again, hopefully at a competitive level.

So far 1 and 2 have been achieved and now I'm gettin' greedy:D

My cardiologist and surgeon have both cleared me to resume exercise (obviously gradual in onset). My cardiologist said to basically go for it since I was in good shape pre-op. My internet searches don't reveal many people who have had valve surgery and then continued to compete at at high level, either in rowing or other endurance sports. If anyone has a story to share either about themselves or someone they know, I would love to hear it.

I also have a few other questions:
-My pre-op resting HR was in the 38-43 range and it is now about 80. Can I expect this to decrease as my CV fitness returns?
-I currently am walking 3-4 times per week and rowing on my ergometer 4-6 times per week keeping my HR less than 130. This feels like a purely aerobic pace (we do tons of this in rowing for the "aerobic base" development-I'm sure as is similar in other endurance sports). When can I "let it fly" and push the HR higher? I'm not sure there is a set answer to this but so far I use the "listen to one's body" approach.

Again, this is a very informative site and I thank in advance any who can lend advice.

John Mason
_________________
 
Welcome John!
We have many serious atheletes on this site who will likely be by to answer your questions. I'm not one of them, but wanted to welcome you and congratulate you on your terrific recovery. The only question I can answer is the one about your heart rate - it's normal for it to be high for some time after surgery but it will eventually go down. Best of luck! Kate
 
Hi John-

Welcome. My husband is a currently sidelined (erg) rower (pelvic fx). The resident rower on VR.com is Raverlaw--there may be others. I don't think I've seen him post much lately, but you could PM or email him for his personal experience. Sounds like you're on the...er...river?...to recovery! Good luck!
 
Welcome John,

It's uplifting to receive an endorsement from a physician (we have a few, Marty, JeffP, Dr. Allan).

It is not uncommon to get that "Oh No, another internet junkie" reception from Doctors and/or staff.

Getting to your questions, there are several serious runners and bikers (road and mountain) in our membership. Browse around in this forum and you will find them. Hopefully a few will respond to your questions.

'AL Capshaw' CABG, AVR (heart / chest damage from Radical Radiation Therapy for Hodgkins Disease - 1 of 12 on vr.com)
 
Welcome to the site. I'm sure you were very surprised and worried when you found out that surgery was in the offing. It's scary for anyone, whether you are in the medical field or not. Being a patient is quite different, as you found out.

I am very happy to hear that you are doing so well. That's what everyone here wants to hear.

Let's see, you are 9 weeks out from surgery. I assume you had your sternum cracked. If you had this done with another technique which doesn't involve the sternum, then bone healing wouldn't be an issue, but tissue healing would. As I'm sure you know, bones take quite a while to achieve maximum healing and strength. Rowing puts a LOT of strain on your chest area, I would imagine. Do you think it would be prudent to wait just a little longer to make sure you have a good knit there? And I am saying this even though you have been cleared to "go for it". At 6-8 weeks, most people are just getting clearance to drive (due to torquing motions, and fear of impact accidents), and clearance to do a little light lifting of ordinary things. Does any of what you do involve lifting your boat?

You sound like the kind of guy who wants to jump in with both feet and get going again. I would tend to feel you should cool it a little right now. I've seen my husband go through an enormous amount of chest surgeries, and it does take some time to heal properly. I would hate it if Joe were to do something that would cause movement in the sternum and thus break down whatever was healing in there.

We have had members who had that happen. I'm not sure they ever have a stable sternum after that, even with staples and wires, glue whatever.

As to not having any symptoms, that has happened to many of our members, especially the ones who were into sports. There is some truth to the fact that your heart can compensate at first to regurgitation, but as time goes on, the heart starts to enlarge and fail. So you probably got your "fix" prior to that happening, and you are a lucky guy.

We have many members here who are highly athletic. I'm sure you'll hear from them.

I am just a careful grannie with a lot of experience in caring for "multiple problem" Joe.:p :p

All in good time, and patience are things that make for a good final result.
 
Welcome John!

I would expect that your resting rate will continue to decrease over time. I recall my resting rate was around 90 post op, and eventually settled in to the low 60's with moderate exercise. It took several months - sorry I can't be more specific. BTW, your pre-op resting rate sounds incredible.

As for competitive athletics, "gradual at the onset" is easy to understand, but harder to do, huh?

The devil is in the "ramp up". Who knows when you can get real aggressive. Lot's of folks suggest 12 months before you will feel like your old slef. But others in here have defied that. I'm concerned for you because the chest wall is directly involved with your sport. Just keep those increments very gradual, and be patient.

I wish you success returning to the competitive level.
 
Masonje said:
My internet searches don't reveal many people who have had valve surgery and then continued to compete at at high level, either in rowing or other endurance sports. If anyone has a story to share either about themselves or someone they know, I would love to hear it.

I also have a few other questions:
-My pre-op resting HR was in the 38-43 range and it is now about 80. Can I expect this to decrease as my CV fitness returns?

_________________


Hi John - welcome!

I too have searched for information about people who have had valve surgery and their return to sport - as far as I know, this forum is the best place available for anecdotal info.

In terms of real medical guidance, the only publication I am aware of is:
http://www.acc.org/clinical/bethesda/beth36/index.pdf

It is ostensibly a set of CYA guidelines for docs trying to allow some level of activity, but erring on the side of extreme caution. Note that your sport is in the upper right corner of the matrix.

activity.jpg


Many of us at this forum choose to ignore these guidelines. :p

Everyone here but me seems to have experienced a drop in resting HR in a few to several months after surgery. I had MV repair > 4 years ago, and my RHR remains at about 80 bpm; it was < 60 before my surgery. My experience is atypical if not unique.

These forum members come to mind as having achieved pretty good post op performance:

Arpy (aka Russell) for running, swimming and cycling
Stormrev (aka Grant) for swimming and running
Buzzlanning for swimming and running
Mark Wagner (running)
Msiwik (aka Mark) for running

Mntbiker (aka David) and Adam T also seem to be making very good progress after their very recent surgery.

I believe they all had AV jobs - and I don't have a sense for how that may/may not be relevant to post-op performance vs. an MV job. (an aside - if I failed to mention others of you in that league, it's not a dis - I just can't recall off the top of my head)

I do a lot of endurance sport myself, but certainly don't perform at a high level. I managed to fake my way through an Ironman last summer, but it wasn't pretty. Good news, however, is that my heart has returned to normal dimensions, and I have no indication of leakage. EF is stable and estimated at 45-50%. I feel great, I just can't go very fast.

I'm hoping some others here who have had MV repair can share some experience on returning to competitive sport (I consider my involvement to be "participatory" sport).

Please stop back frequently and let us know how you are doing so we can keep building our body of knowledge.

Congrats on your progress so far, and best wishes for a full and excellent recovery.

Regards,
 
I greatly appreciate everybody's input.

Bill, I must say I find the Bethesda recommendations a bit disheartening given that my sport is on the more strenuous part of the spectrum. While my surgeon and cardiologist have given the OK, I obviously need to investigate this further. I may even e-mail some of the Bethesda report authors. I will post if I find out any more interesting data.

I also appreciate Nancy's comments and I agree I should slow down a bit. I have to remember that there is no reason to rush my recovery.

Thanks again and I look forward to continuing to be a part of this informative site.
 
Now that's a good boy, Johnny. Grannie says take it easier and you will get there. Remember the turtle wins the race over the hare.:D :D :D
 
Masonje said:
Bill, I must say I find the Bethesda recommendations a bit disheartening given that my sport is on the more strenuous part of the spectrum. While my surgeon and cardiologist have given the OK, I obviously need to investigate this further. I may even e-mail some of the Bethesda report authors. I will post if I find out any more interesting data.

I must totally agree that the recommendations are disheartening - to say the least. I certainly hope they err significantly on the side of caution. I was a 3:30 marathoner as recent as one year prior to my surgery, and I certainly hope to get back to that level, or at least near it. I too was given the "green light" by my Cardiologist for any activity except high-intensity weight lifting. Please let us know what you find out, and I intend to do my own research and will post the results as well.
 
John,
I'm glad you found the site. :)

Dr. Kouchoukos replaced my aortic valve on June 7, 2005.
We have probably 8-9 members in the St. Louis area, so once again, welcome to the club!:)
 
Hi John,
Welcome to the site.

Don't let Bill fool you - he is a true inspiration. Thanks to his posts I knew I would be able to return to what I love to do.

As far as those recommendations ? I have seen them. I don?t buy it, basically if I went by that the most strenuous thing I could do is play a wicked game of monopoly.

My activities are a bit different so I can not address issues related to the chest area.

My pre surgery RHR was 45. It is currently back down to the 60?s in an air conditioned environment but 80?s in the hot temps we are having. I am 39 so we are only about two years apart. I am (today) 8 weeks out from surgery. I had my aortic valve replaced. Unfortunately I was symptomatic pre-surgery. Swollen feet, cough, trouble breathing (especially in bed) chest pain, pain by the left shoulder blade etc. All of that is gone now.

I ride my bike in a trainer since my wife has conspired with the surgeon to keep me off the trails until 9/7 (it?s a Thursday and I am off from work that day :D ). I ride the trainer with my HR in the 130?s and maintain that for the entire workout. I am just concentrating on keeping things moving at this point and getting the base mileage in. I push the HR up as high as I can one day each week to see how it is doing. The surgeon told me this was fine at three weeks since ?well, you can?t break anything so if you want to do it go ahead?.

I also enjoy canoeing, I know it?s not the same thing as you?re rowing but the primary reason I have not yet gone out is the size and weight of the canoe. It?s only 64 pounds but awkward. I have however been swimming and playing tennis again since the sixth week. I get muscle soreness but no pain

Good luck with your recovery.

David
 
I wanted to give an update to Mike and Bill (and of course anyone else who is interested) in my further research into the Bethesda conference on athletes with heart disease. There was a statement (and a chart) from that conference that put pretty severe restrictions on those of us who have had mitral repairs. As I stated above, I am an avid rower who thrives on competition. This conference stated that any activity more strenuous than naked Monopoly was a no-no for those of us with mitral repairs. I obviously jest here but the chart was posted by Bill earlier in this thread and the restrictions seem pretty excessive. I was devastated when I saw this but before I sold my boat and joined the St. Louis chapter of Board Games for the Too Delicate to do Anything Else, I thought I would research it a bit.

To start with, I revisited my restrictions with my surgeon and cardiologist. They said "none" and "none". They basically blew off the conference statements as too general to take to heart (sorry) and since they knew me in and out, their recs take priority. In fact, they felt it was important to get back to my prior fitness levels, obviously training soundly, intelligently and so on.

I entered cardiac rehab also to answer some of these issues and the supervising physician concurred with my other docs.

Finally, I emailed one of the physicians on the panel of the Bethesda conference and he too stated that they were only guidelines and one should get the final word from their own cardiologist.

I think the bottom line on activity with mitral repair is that no one knows for sure the long term effects of vigorous exercise. My plan is to take it slow, try to train intelligently and carefully but shoot for a return to competitive rowing. I'll get my regular echos and live as healthy a lifestyle as I can.

I look forward to hearing the thoughts of others.
 
Welcome John!

My heart rate was in the mid 70's Pre Op. Post Op I was mid 80's and now it has dropped to low 60's since I've started back my exercise program. I'm not a rower but a paddler. I paddle a whitewater kayak but not competetively. My Card did not put any restrictions (3 months Post Op) on me other than no power lifting. He seemed to be happy that I was so active but not happy so happy with the fact that I will encounter rocks. Coumadin and rocks don't mix to well :) In any case, I assume the risk. I'm now 5 months Post Op and back my normal routine. I weight lift 4 times a week, jog/walk 20 miles a week and paddle at least 2 days a week with an average of 12 miles on the weekends. I mostly workout to gain strength and endurance so that I can push my limits in kayaking. Hopefully, I will be a Class V boater soon.

I personally don't see how you would have any restrictions in competitive rowing. I think those guidelines are a bit rigid as well. Like my suregeon said "Just use your good ole common sense BUT no power lifting!"

Their are some great and inspiring athletes on here. You should check out the Active Lifestyle Forum.
 
The way I look at it is that we can crawl into a hole and be afraid for the rest of our lives, or we can live them. Befor my surgery, I would tell my cardiologist that I was going backpacking, or snowboarding, looking for his approval and he would say, "if I told you no, would it stop you?" Of course I would say NO, so he would just tell me to use good judgement and don't push too hard. If I erred on the side of caution, I would have never reached one of my life goals of hiking to the top of Mt. Whitney (14,496ft.) My goal is to continue to do the things that I did before surgery i.e. ocean kayaking, backpacking, snowboarding, bodyboarding. I have discussed this with my cardiologist and he dosen't see a problem with it. In fact he says my 29mm St. Jude should allow good blood flow for high altitude. These are all things that I am experienced with and I am by no means "extreme" about them. I am just a "cruiser" on the snowboard, I don't jump, grind or use any terrain park equipment. So I think as long as you use good judgement you can do most things. Just give yourself plent of time to heal and work up slowly.
 
Thanks, John for making us couch potatoes feel inadequate;) Don't know my RHR or my Base Metabolic Rate (which I bet you know - as my wife knows hers). My philosophy is that she exercises enough for both of us so I should share in her benefits.....

Anyway just kidding - sort of. Welcome to the site. I would say reasonable, intelligent, cautious training based on clearance from your docs trumps general recs for a "couch potato" population. Listen to your body and go slower than you think you can. Don't rush it but dont' sit idly by letting the "no limits Bingo push your sedentary heart rate through the roof".
 
Welcome Masonje

Welcome Masonje

Thanks for posting. With your medical background, you have a lot to offer our community. Keep us posted on your progress. Mark
 
Kinda similar. I just had MV repair 8 weeks ago. I'm 41 also, and was in pretty good shape going into the surgery. I like to lift weights. My Card says that I will be able to return to lifting weights, although not any time soon. I dont thing that I'll ever compete again, but I'd be happy if I could lift enough to retain a good shape. However, I tend to be self competative, so it will most likely be a challenge to control myself from doing too much, too soon. Good luck.
 

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