Government over reaction or wise insite?

[Mary]

Bonzo quotes an individual who observes the conduct of government officials and then assigns to them the motive of scaring people so the officials look good later. Soon thereafter, Bonzo discovers that motives (enjoying poking the USA in the eye) have been assigned to him and he is duly offended. And in the meantime we quarrel with one another.

I believe you're right, Dennis.
And if I am any judge of character, I believe Bonzo will too once he reads your post.

 

[KAJ]

He pointed out Katrina created minimal actual storm damage by itself.

I beg to differ. Katrina did a significant amount of damage outside of New Orleans. Anyone who lost a home and or business or or had one damaged would not call it miminal but disastrous.

In regards to Gustav, I think was better to play it safe. Having said that, I am getting ready for the next one that may be here in the next few days.

No matter where one lives, there are going to natural disasters of one kind or another. Having being raised in Illinois, I am not sure which is worse, driving on icy roads in the winter or trying to minimize damage from an occasional
hurricane .

Karl

 

[ejonbry]

I believe that one major point to consider here is that after Katrina, our politicians were slammed for not doing enough. I believe yesterday that the weather channel said Gustav would be a class 3 when coming aground, thankfully they were wrong and the damage has been minimal. So let's once again crucify our politicians, this time for doing too much. That is ludacris.

Personally, Iwill be thankful that so far there has been no loss of life, and little property damage. With that being said, job well done.

As far as someone in another country telling us we did too little or too much, none of that opinion really matters to me. My only question is.....What was the outcome? How did it effect people? Can it be overcome? Not does the BBC agree, because I just don't care if they do or not.

Just my humble opinion.

Eric

 

[SHEEPDOG]

Not the place!!!

Not the place!!!

Bonzos ORIGINAL question was benign enough but now the "global warming " stuff (trying to be "G" rated here). There is some very OBVIOUS US bashing although not too bad. While I will be more than willing to start throwing political blows too, I don't come here to have POLITICAL fights, arguments, discussions, etc. I could say lots about the cradle to grave government that other countries have, so called "FREE" health care, outrageous taxes, no freedom, but that is for Shawn Hannity or Rush call in shows. This is VALVEREPLACEMENT.COM, not a POLITICAL BLOG.

 

[Duff Man]

I apologize if my post was considered a personal jab but I take it personally when people take jabs at the US calling our leaders stupid .

Sorry, but have you listened to a speech from some of them lately? Bush sounds like he's permanently drunk. Maybe punch drunk. I don't know what happened, because the guy was VERY sharp as governor of Texas. He was a very good speaker. I think he's lost at least 30-40 IQ points in the last 8 years. Maybe he had a stroke or something.

/Bush bashing

Also, dissent is healthy for a republic. Stifling of dissent and speech is scary.

 

[CThrock]

I can't stand all the Bush bashing!!! None of the presidents have ever I say ever been prefect. Have a little respect!!!!

 

[Marguerite53]

I can't stand all the Bush bashing!!! None of the presidents have ever I say ever been prefect. Have a little respect!!!!

okay, okay.... please don't go nucular about it! Oh, my bad.... it's nuclear, isn't it.


Marguerite

 

[Lisa in Katy]

I'm sure Bush has aged a lot in 8 years. He's dealt with, and been blamed for, 9/11. He's dealt with, and been blamed for, Katrina. He's dealt with, and been blamed for, a huge increase in illegal immigration. The country has been involved in a controversial war for almost his entire presidency. He has seen his "No Child Left Behind" platform, a good idea at heart, be turned into a political fiasco by the states who want to use it to gain control of the education system. He's had both the highest and lowest presidential approval ratings in history.

Do I approve of everything he's done? No. I think the war has dragged on too long. I think it's time we leave a few nukes behind and get out!

Do I think he's as dumb as the media makes him out to be? Also no. When you are constantly in the public eye, every slip of the tongue is recorded and it's pretty easy to string them together.

I worked for a physician who was good friends with his father and I spoke with the younger Bush on the phone on more than one occasion during his father's presidency. He was always pleasant, although there was one time when he was kind of rude because our receptionist questioned his identity. He had said to tell the doctor that George Bush was calling and she thought it was a joke and said "Who is this really?" I also sat in front of him on a plane in about 1993 - Southwest Airlines, nothing fancy. This was just before he became Governor of the Great State of Texas. He shook hands and spoke to everyone around him, but didn't actively campaign. I think he's "real people" with real flaws, which can make being the President of the United States rather difficult.

 

[Duff Man]

Didn't say I don't think he means well...He might be the most controversial president and I might not agree with most of his executive decisions, but by God he does what he thinks is right.

I think my emoticons made it seem like I was poking fun at him for something serious that I believe happened to his brain. I was trying be lighthearted about it, but not really make fun of it. I had a teacher that sounded pretty similar, just a little worse, after he had a stroke...

Talking about politics is a quick way to lose friends I think because I'm younger I've still managed to hang on to mine. I try not to forget that other people are usually just as passionate and opinionated as I am, and that they mean well too.

 

[Bonzo Dog]

I think the war has dragged on too long. I think it's time we leave a few nukes behind and get out!

 

[Bonzo Dog]

I also sat in front of him on a plane in about 1993 - Southwest Airlines, nothing fancy. This was just before he became Governor of the Great State of Texas. He shook hands and spoke to everyone around him, but didn't actively campaign. I think he's "real people" with real flaws, which can make being the President of the United States rather difficult.

Engaging with people is a basic political requirement. If politicians don't have meeting and greeting skills they are non starters. I bet Attila the Hun kissed a few babies on his rise to power.

 

[Bonzo Dog]

As a point of order I didn't start this thread

The first post was in Phillip's 'Gustav' thread. Obviously I considered it fair and relevant. Oaktree then took offence, cited rules and protocols, deemed the post political and asked it became a separate thread. Ross moved the post with some (not all) replies and started the thread ((wise insite (sic)) in my name.

I stand by the original post in it's original location, however given the super sensitivities on here would not have started a stand alone thread with it myself.

As the thread is up and running with my name as originator I will continue to comment and post. I thought a reappraisal of the origins worthwhile.

 

[Bonzo Dog]

But my most serious objection: As a minor league government official myself, my biggest beef is when people, assuming that they have somehow gotten inside my head, decide to enlighten the world on my motives--that is just unfair and unproductive. I recall a case where a politician had voted to appropriate money for a women's shelter, and his opponent dismissed this by saying the motive behind the appropriation was to hide the fact that the politician was opposed to equal rights for women. My point-if you are prepared to claim you went inside my head and can "explain" my motives to the rest of the world there is no way I can ever please you, and no possibility that we can have a productive discussion. And we need productive discussions now more than ever.

Dennis, surely an intelligent responsible citizen has a duty to get inside a politicians head? The politician is our representative, it is incumbent on us to analyse the individual who will be our spokesperson and legislator. To listen to speeches, read manifestos, look at voting records and try and get a sense of the man (or woman). Sadly a huge political skill is the ability to 'be economical with the truth', so looking for motive is an essential part of the citizens job.

 

[Duff Man]

Would it be rude to comment from Europe on a tense New Orleans situation??

The BBC ran a piece this morning, where a seemingly well informed New Orleans resident of British origins was rubbishing the manipulative nature of local government and it's failure to give residents the proper facts.
In his view, based on monitoring Gustav's behaviour over the last week, it would both be too weak and too far down the coast to cause major damage on landfall. He pointed out Katrina created minimal actual storm damage by itself. The major damage was caused by levee breaching, less likely to happen this time as Gustav was both weak and approaching from another direction. He felt the Gustav situation was being overhyped to create a sense of alarm, so government could react and cover itself in praise, thus erasing some ill feeling for Katrina.

Is this either far fetched nonsense or wise insight??

To answer the question of the thread you didn't mean to make

Yes, what the guy said is garbage. He doesn't know what he's talking about. The levees are failable man made devices that are inherently destined to break at some point. Any idiot knows that when you live below sea level and there's an 8 to 12 foot swell coming your way, you GTFO or you might drown if a levee breaks. Apparently the government is required to FORCE people on the lower end of the bell curve to leave.

I'm no expert, but when I saw the pictures of the water actually flowing over the top of the levees because the swell was so high, it made me nervous. It kind of looked like an above ground pool with cement walls, but with billions and billions of gallons pressed up against it.

Yeah, there might be some political motivation for the hype, but as the saying goes, "once bitten, twice shy". I think our government learned a valuable lesson from Katrina, personally. There's probably some truth to the fact that the GOP would rather not have another Katrina, too. But for the most part, what the guy said sounds like cynicism. There's obviously people that don't take what government officials say seriously, and they got hurt for it... maybe that's why the government officials are so emphatic and diligent this time around.

I still love you though Bonzo

 

[Bonzo Dog]

May I take a moment to point out the irony here?

Bonzo quotes an individual who observes the conduct of government officials and then assigns to them the motive of scaring people so the officials look good later. Soon thereafter, Bonzo discovers that motives (enjoying poking the USA in the eye) have been assigned to him and he is duly offended. And in the meantime we quarrel with one another.

Actually Dennis the irony here is a current affairs post by me has become victim of VR.com internal politics.

 

[Bonzo Dog]

I believe you're right, Dennis.
And if I am any judge of character, I believe Bonzo will too once he reads your post.

Mary I have no wish to quarrel with any one. However some loud forum hostility to a world view should not stop me posting that view. Is this an inclusive global forum or an exclusive USA forum?

 

[Bonzo Dog]

OK that's me done for a few hours. (Cue thunderous applause ) Our schools go back after Summer break tomorrow, today I have to meet with our girls tutor group head to set targets for the next academic year.................................. I'll be back

 

[Ross]

As a point of order I didn't start this thread

The first post was in Phillip's 'Gustav' thread. Obviously I considered it fair and relevant. Oaktree then took offence, cited rules and protocols, deemed the post political and asked it became a separate thread. Ross moved the post with some (not all) replies and started the thread ((wise insite (sic)) in my name.

I stand by the original post in it's original location, however given the super sensitivities on here would not have started a stand alone thread with it myself.

As the thread is up and running with my name as originator I will continue to comment and post. I thought a reappraisal of the origins worthwhile.

It was moved out of Philips thread because it was off topic in that thread. As you know, when a thread is moved, it doesn't matter who started it, it's the first post that begins the thread and therefor who the board determines is the original poster. Has nothing to do with singling you out.

I moved the posts that were relevant to this thread along with it.

All we ask is that you play nicely with each other and not flame one another. We can agree to disagree without becoming total butt holes about it. Being butt holes is what gets threads closed and or deleted. Now stop trying to run with scissors and quit trying to stab your brothers and sisters with them.

Is it possible to get through the day without nuking this thread?

 

[hensylee]

Posted by Ross: Is it possible to get through the day without nuking this thread


prolly not

 

[ctyguy]

Gonzo...are you feeling the love in this thread ? I thought your question was innocent enough not sure why it took such a negative turn, I guess some are more sensitive than others. I'm VERY pro-USA, served 6 years in the military, and tend to put my opinion out there for all to hear/respond to.

Im very pleased with the governments response to this event and I certainly think the events of Katrina taught those in charge of FEMA that being overly prepared is the right way to go. Certainly for the Bush Administration they are in a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. There is so much animosity towards the President that no matter what he does he is going to get critized for it. At least they actually had buses ready to evacuate people this time and they were pro-active with hospitals and animal shelters. That is progress ! But I bet we will still see negative reports in some form of fashion on Gustav. The common thread of News programs is that they like to show the bad stuff that goes on because that is what people ultimately want to see. There is plenty of good going on in Iraq (for example) that can be attributed to the countries liberation (yes I said it), but there is still bad as well and that is what we are usually presented on TV and in the press. The BBC isn't an unbiased news organization, they are certainly left leaning but that goes with England as a whole. So its no suprise that msot of what you see would have a negative opinion of the current US administration, you just have to take what you read with a grain of a salt because its probably an incomplete picture.

It will be interesting over the next 4 years because with the Olympics coming to England your country is going to be put squarely under the microscope. How many stories do you think we are gonna see about alcohol and out of control Brits ?