what happens to the pig?

[Dina]

You ask a question I have much wondered about myself,but never asked
since I hoped that I wasn't the sole reason for the destruction of
a healthy cow,as I have a bovine valve. I assumed that it would be used.
Since it has been brought up,I must admit to a certain amount of guilt,and
as a result I no longer eat any beef,or anything that contains it--just a
purely personal thing.I don't eat much meat of any type anyway so its no
great sacrifice for me. Strangely my husband understood,though he still
has beef,but he usually gets it out since he doesn't want to force me to
cook it. Most people just think I'm silly

 

[Dina]

OKey doke, just got off the phone with metronic (picked them since they have both pig and cows) very nice guys but sorry forgot his name. They have certain farms that raise the pigs and send the hearts to medtroni, the rest of the pig goes to regular pig things, (i asked like ham, bacon, footballs? he said yes) Nothing is wasted. He also said it might be interesting to know out of every 100 hearts they get, only 4 valves meet their criteria to end up being used as valves.
He asked if I was having surgery and I explained about my son and because of him I belong to VR.com and it was a question that came up. Since i told him about Justin, he asked IF I hew anything about the melody valve , and I told him I was aware of it and held great hopes for it and actually discussed the edwards version with Boston 2 years ago, but Justin eneded up needing the conduit section replaced and not the valve.
also the valve they use is the pigs aortic valve. (except of course for the contrega pulm one that is the cows jugular vein)

Thanks Lyn..it makes me feel somewhat better.

Lotti-What if you get a bovine..you take the rest of the cow home

 

[Nancy]

I know that surgeons learn on animals first. I would be nice to think they removed the original pig valve carefully and then did their practice surgery with a mechanical implantation, and like Cooker said, the pig went on to live a long pig life.

I will hold that thought.

 

[Lynlw]

I know that surgeons learn on animals first. I would be nice to think they removed the original pig valve carefully and then did their practice surgery with a mechanical implantation, and like Cooker said, the pig went on to live a long pig life.

I will hold that thought.

Then don't read my post

 

[Bina]

You ask a question I have much wondered about myself,but never asked
since I hoped that I wasn't the sole reason for the destruction of
a healthy cow,as I have a bovine valve. I assumed that it would be used.
Since it has been brought up,I must admit to a certain amount of guilt,and
as a result I no longer eat any beef,or anything that contains it--just a
purely personal thing.I don't eat much meat of any type anyway so its no
great sacrifice for me. Strangely my husband understood,though he still
has beef,but he usually gets it out since he doesn't want to force me to
cook it. Most people just think I'm silly

Dina, I understand totally.
After my late Mom had her kidney transplant.....none of us would eat or cook organ meat anymore.
No more steak and kidney pie either.

 

[Lynlw]

Justin is the opposite, he was there when medtronic called back and after I got off the phone he said, how cool would it be if I could find the leather jacket that came from the same cow as my valve.

 

[escargome]

Well all I can say is "Thank You" to that wonderful brown eyed cow who donated their pericardial valve to me. Although, when I drive by a nice green field I do have the urge to stop and munch a little

 

[Blanche]

Now I remember

Now I remember

why I don't eat anything with four legs.

Blanche

 

[Cooker]

OKey doke, just got off the phone with metronic (picked them since they have both pig and cows) very nice guys but sorry forgot his name. They have certain farms that raise the pigs and send the hearts to medtroni, the rest of the pig goes to regular pig things, (i asked like ham, bacon, footballs? he said yes) Nothing is wasted. He also said it might be interesting to know out of every 100 hearts they get, only 4 valves meet their criteria to end up being used as valves.
He asked if I was having surgery and I explained about my son and because of him I belong to VR.com and it was a question that came up. Since i told him about Justin, he asked IF I hew anything about the melody valve , and I told him I was aware of it and held great hopes for it and actually discussed the edwards version with Boston 2 years ago, but Justin eneded up needing the conduit section replaced and not the valve.
also the valve they use is the pigs aortic valve. (except of course for the contrega pulm one that is the cows jugular vein)

Like Grandpa use to say "we use everything from the rooter to the tooter"

 

[zipper2]

They put mechanical valves in them .... .... Just kidding ... I assume bacon, chops, BBQ etc....

Omgosh ,sorry to crash this but Cooker your a bananna cake


omgosh i laughed so hard i'm sure i reopened my incision right now.

you need something to laugh at find COOKER.

zipper2 (DEB)

 

[tobagotwo]

Blanche, are people safe? We only have two legs..?

I have read that the pigs used for this are raised separately, but that after the donor organs are removed, they are usually someone's dinner. I still eat pork, even while enjoying the benefits of my Mosaic pig valve.

I used to think that it was just that if you were Jewish, you couldn't eat pork. In exploring it, it seems that you also shouldn't touch the flesh of the pig during the Pilgrimmage Festivals of Passover, Shavuot, and Sukkot.

Apart from those festivals, though, it seems it's generally acceptable to wear pigskin clothing products (such as shoes, belts, jackets, etc.), and cavort in the park with footballs and other, non-edible, hog-based products.

There are also sensible, well-considered, medical exceptions: it seems widely agreed that you can inject insulin, heparin, and other medical products derived from porcine sources, and in some views apparently even accepted that you can use the valve from a pig in your heart if you need to. The first seems to be upheld by the argument that it's oral consumption that is forbidden, and the second less strongly by the fact that the valve undergoes a tanning/preserving process that makes it less directly swinish. Judaism is a stunning bouquet of deeply considered, divergent-yet-cohesive opinions and interpretations, so these interpretations probably don't hold true for all sects and locations.

For those who feel sad for the much-maligned swine, we are reassured to hear that "according to the Midrash, pig will be a kosher animal when Moshiach comes." (Rabbi Shmuel Kogan, Chabad.org). Then again, being declared fit for the table might not be altogether a blessing from the pig's point of view. (Note: The Midrash is a collection of Torah-based teachings from the Sages, and Moshiach is the Jewish Messiah, who is yet to come.)

I had to know more. I hope I've not offended anyone or grossly misrepresented their beliefs.

Best wishes,

 

[Mary]

Blanche, are people safe? We only have two legs..?

I have read that the pigs used for this are raised separately, but that after the donor organs are removed, they are usually someone's dinner. I still eat pork, even while enjoying the benefits of my Mosaic pig valve.

I used to think that it was just that if you were Jewish, you couldn't eat pork. In exploring it, it seems that you also shouldn't touch the flesh of the pig during the Pilgrimmage Festivals of Passover, Shavuot, and Sukkot.

Apart from those festivals, though, it seems it's generally acceptable to wear pigskin clothing products (such as shoes, belts, jackets, etc.), and cavort in the park with footballs and other, non-edible, hog-based products.

There are also sensible, well-considered, medical exceptions: it seems widely agreed that you can inject insulin, heparin, and other medical products derived from porcine sources, and in some views apparently even accepted that you can use the valve from a pig in your heart if you need to. The first seems to be upheld by the argument that it's oral consumption that is forbidden, and the second less strongly by the fact that the valve undergoes a tanning/preserving process that makes it less directly swinish. Judaism is a stunning bouquet of deeply considered, divergent, yet cohesive opinions and interpretations, so these interpretations probably don't hold true for all sects and locations.

For those who feel sad for the much-maligned swine, we are reassured to hear that "according to the Midrash, pig will be a kosher animal when Moshiach comes." (Rabbi Shmuel Kogan, Chabad.org). Then again, being declared fit for the table might not be altogether a blessing from the pig's point of view. (Note: The Midrash is a collection of Torah-based teachings from the Sages, and Moshiach is the Jewish Messiah, who is yet to come.)

I had to know more. I hope I've not offended or misrepresented anyone.

Best wishes,

I'm offended!

The bovine pac has been given little mention in these discussions!

I think this group is biased towards swine!

Who do I sue! Or is it whom?

 

[Marguerite53]

Moooooooo!!

Me, too, Mary.

And BTW, my surgeon was Jewish and I distinctly asked him if he would have any trouble implanting a porcine valve should I have chosen one and he said absolutely not. My choice!

I know that I had these same questions years ago, and I think I called and asked CE what and where about the cows. Well, I think I remember someone saying that it is a steer. So wouldn't that be male?? So I am now, truly, a 2-sexed human?? p can't wait to see what this comment starts!)

For me, once I had chosen my valve, bovine, I went in search of something to represent the cow (alright, steer!). I bought 2 little toy cows (farm animal types) and took one with me to the hospital and kept it on my nightstand with the photo of my children. I thanked the cow this way, every time I had a moment. I still keep that toy by my bedside, and the other one (a different color.... I think I even researched the breeds and made special choices) the other one is in my kitchen. I have never once cringed about eating steaks or beef.

Our house is about 100 yards from one of those suburban hold-out farms. He has 3-6 cows all the time. I can hear them moo-ing from our bedroom because we always keep our window open a crack. And every day when I drive out of our street, or walk to our mailbox, there they are.....my cousins!!!

Fun thread.

Marguerite

 

[Superbob]

I'm offended!

The bovine pac has been given little mention in these discussions!

I think this group is biased towards swine!

Who do I sue! Or is it whom?

The Bovine PAC?! You moooooo people got a Political Action Committee? Yikes! I humbly apologize, but I have to tell you we porkers are way ahead in the political power game. Every other word uttered in Washington these days is "pork." (No editorial comment offered here. )

(It's "whom," BTW, if one wants to be prissy about it. )

 

[David L]

What happens to the pig?

What happens to the pig?

I think Lynlw has the true story on this. I was told the same thing by my surgeon at Stanford when I had mine installed last August. The way I look at it is that this valve is made by god, not man, so I'll take it over the others! My understanding is the Bovine and other Porcine valves are made from animal material, but assembled by man! Correct me if I'm wrong!!

 

[Lynlw]

I think Lynlw has the true story on this. I was told the same thing by my surgeon at Stanford when I had mine installed last August. The way I look at it is that this valve is made by god, not man, so I'll take it over the others! My understanding is the Bovine and other Porcine valves are made from animal material, but assembled by man! Correct me if I'm wrong!!

MOST Bovine valves are man made using the pericardial sac of cows. BUt the new pulmonary valve/conduit the contregra conduit, is actually a cows jugular vein. It has a valve in it that keep the cow from tipping (unless teens are bored I guess)

 

[ALCapshaw2]

Just to clarify, Porcine Valves are the Real Valve from a Pig.

Bovine Pericardial Tissue Valves are manufactured from the Pericardium (sac around the heart) of a Cow and formed to resemble a Human Valve.

'AL Capshaw'

 

[BigOwl]

As a long-time vegetarian Kosher Jew (no longer, but vitally interested in sustainability, ethics, and the like) I worried about this when I realized I was going to have to make a choice at some point about what kind of valve.

Haven't consulted a rabbi (I'm too much of an agnostic to care what dogma has to say about it all), but I know enough about medicine to think that The Pig gets used for many things before finally giving up his/her piggie little ghost. Humans and pigs share enough in common that one can only hope that he/she does not die in vain, but offers up benefits that help along the furtherance of human and porcine kind.

I really don't know, but I hope. Of course, all the pigs/bacon/bbq I eat these days comes from happy pigs allowed to wallow and enjoy their lives, rather than being stuffed into standard stinky pig farms. It's worth the money, in the end, to know that your pigs have frolicked.

 

[Lynlw]

As a long-time vegetarian Kosher Jew (no loner, but vitally interested in sustainability, ethics, and the like) I worried about this when I realized I was going to have to make a choice at some point about what kind of valve.

Haven't consulted a rabbi (I'm too much of an agnostic to care what dogma has to say about it all), but I know enough about medicine to think that The Pig gets used for many things before finally giving up his/her piggie little ghost. Humans and pigs share enough in common that one can only hope that he/she does not die in vain, but offers up benefits that help along the furtherance of human and porcine kind.

I really don't know, but I hope. Of course, all the pigs/bacon/bbq I eat these days comes from happy pigs allowed to wallow and enjoy their lives, rather than being stuffed into standard stinky pig farms. It's worth the money, in the end, to know that your pigs have frolicked.

The medtronic guy said they were nice farms, I was thinking like the happy cows from california

 

[BigOwl]

Me too. I'll take all the happy thoughts I can get at this point. PS: love your posts, Mom.