Julian
Well-known member
If I had to get tissue I would of chose bovine!
Info on Tissue Longjevity
- Thread starter ron
- Start date
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Well, I'm not afraid of the piggies, but when I bite into a burger, the cow's name somehow immediately comes to mind. . . sort of spooky.
MOOOO!
MOOOO!
ElectLive
Well-known member
You know, my original hope was for bison. I thought this much lower fat, as well as higher iron alternative made perfect sense for overall heart health. Besides, all other things being equal, given the choices of being part pig, part cow, or part bison...who wouldn't choose Bison, such a noble and impressive emblem of survival. Sadly, though, my surgeon informed me it was not an option. Now, I don't necessarily hold Ted Turner responsible, but something does seem amiss.
So, after much struggle with the cow versus pig dilemma, my epiphany finally came through exhaustive research. The truth is very hard to find, but it is out there, and here's a link to the most well thought out research I've seen in favor of the cow: http://eatmorchikin.com/
Ok, now that I've contributed to the further deterioration of this thread, let me take a step back to the beginning. Whatever decimal point percentage those patients represent, 22 years is 22 years, and that amount of time should be good news to hear for any valve patient. A lot of us naturally worry about drawing the short straw of tissue valve longevity, but perhaps some here will be the ones who hit the jackpot too.
So, after much struggle with the cow versus pig dilemma, my epiphany finally came through exhaustive research. The truth is very hard to find, but it is out there, and here's a link to the most well thought out research I've seen in favor of the cow: http://eatmorchikin.com/
Ok, now that I've contributed to the further deterioration of this thread, let me take a step back to the beginning. Whatever decimal point percentage those patients represent, 22 years is 22 years, and that amount of time should be good news to hear for any valve patient. A lot of us naturally worry about drawing the short straw of tissue valve longevity, but perhaps some here will be the ones who hit the jackpot too.
Hi, Ron, my surgeon, Dr James Spann at Oklahoma Heart Institute, also says that he expects the longevity reports for 3rd generation valves to be signifigantly higher as patient data is collected. Still, I will feel more confident when the cause of calcification is better understood so that steps can taken to avoid developing stenosis since that is the cause of most failures of tissue valves.
Larry
Larry
Fundy
Well-known member
Has there ever been any studies or theories regarding dietary intake that may influence calcification?
Larry - I, too, was told that they expect the usable life span of our third-generation valves to be longer than the previous generation. We just don't really know how long that means yet, and we won't know for quite a while as it will take that long to collect actual data. You can't know how long something will last until it fails, I guess.
Fundy - From what I've heard and read, there are no connections known thus far between diet, activity or any other controllable condition and calcification of heart valves. If there was such a connection even guessed at, many of us would have tried the remedies to extend our time before surgery. No luck there. IIRC, they even concluded that the connection thought to exist between taking statin drugs and slowing stenosis has been disproved. Sounds a lot like Las Vegas. . . you may think you can control the odds, but you can't.
Fundy - From what I've heard and read, there are no connections known thus far between diet, activity or any other controllable condition and calcification of heart valves. If there was such a connection even guessed at, many of us would have tried the remedies to extend our time before surgery. No luck there. IIRC, they even concluded that the connection thought to exist between taking statin drugs and slowing stenosis has been disproved. Sounds a lot like Las Vegas. . . you may think you can control the odds, but you can't.
ElectLive
Well-known member
Indeed. I saw a question about the longevity of currently used tissue valves in a Cleveland Clinic webchat several months ago, with the following answer:
"Yes there is significant improvement in the tissue valves we presently use - mainly in the anti-calcification treatment that we use - this results in a presumed longer longevity of the valves. We will not have the data for another 25 years - but it appears very promising."
Fundy
Well-known member
Steve, there definitely are theories concerning calcification of valves, for sure. Looks like I may have phrased question a bit wrong I guess. I'm not aware of any studies, but have come across quite a few theories regarding magnesium deficiency and calcium/magnesium imbalance theories. I think magnesium deficiency comes into play within a lot of connective tissue disorder theories. Or at least that magnesium deficiency can cause symptoms similar to connective tissue disorder caused symptoms.
I just never seem to see anything major or strongly convincing. I've seen enough to cause me to consciously add magnesium to diet though once in awhile, even take supplements(although most times I hear supplements are usually a bad idea)
Here's a couple of links that don't really provide anything convincing:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/325238-calcified-heart-valve-and-diet/
http://magnesiumforlife.com/medical...atment-with-magnesium-and-sodium-thiosulfate/
http://www.ctds.info/5_13_magnesium.html
I just never seem to see anything major or strongly convincing. I've seen enough to cause me to consciously add magnesium to diet though once in awhile, even take supplements(although most times I hear supplements are usually a bad idea)
Here's a couple of links that don't really provide anything convincing:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/325238-calcified-heart-valve-and-diet/
http://magnesiumforlife.com/medical...atment-with-magnesium-and-sodium-thiosulfate/
http://www.ctds.info/5_13_magnesium.html
Fundy - I haven't had time to review all three articles, but the first one doesn't match my reality. They say valves can calcify due to high fat diets (been on a low fat diet for over 30 years), being underweight (not me, at least not in the past 30 years), having high cholesterol (mine was only "borderline high"), having high blood pressure (mine was only "pre-hypertensive"). If magnesium was the culprit, I would think that at least somebody's cardio would have tested for it and prescribed corrective action. So. . . not sure I would invest in magnesium supplements yet.
I guess I would call these theories. They are situations where someone has noted correlation, but has not been able to prove cause and effect. A lot of good research starts out this way, but so far this line of thought isn't developed well enough to get my attention. Of course, my opinion is colored by the fact that at my age there isn't much that could be done about calcification anyway, and because my aortic valve has already been replaced with one that has one of the current-better anticalcification treatments already.
I guess I would call these theories. They are situations where someone has noted correlation, but has not been able to prove cause and effect. A lot of good research starts out this way, but so far this line of thought isn't developed well enough to get my attention. Of course, my opinion is colored by the fact that at my age there isn't much that could be done about calcification anyway, and because my aortic valve has already been replaced with one that has one of the current-better anticalcification treatments already.
Fundy
Well-known member
Yeah there's not much I've found in relation to studies of valve calcification related to low magnesium, I have seen it mentioned often. The third link is to someone's own site relating to connective tissue disorders which mentions the oddity of people with low magnesium levels getting illnesses with symptoms similar to that caused by connective tissue disorders. For them the illness and symptoms go away with correcting the magnesium levels, whereas the ctd symptoms people usually don't have a deficiency and increased magnesium levels don't help them.
The second link offers an analogy:
“To understand how you can create a calcium/magnesium imbalance in your own body, try this experiment in your kitchen. Crush a calcium pill and see how much dissolves in 1 oz of water. Then crush a magnesium pill and slowly stir it into the calcium water. When you introduce the magnesium, the remaining calcium dissolves; it becomes more water-soluble. The same thing happens in your bloodstream, heart, brain, kidneys, and all the tissues in your body. If you don’t have enough magnesium to help keep calcium dissolved, you may end up with calcium-excess muscle spasms, fibromyalgia, hardening of the arteries, and even dental cavities. Another scenario plays out in the kidneys. If there is too much calcium in the kidneys and not enough magnesium to dissolve it, you can get kidney stones.”
It makes sense to me that calcium/magnesium imbalance in blood may cause calcification in body tissue. I imagine its quite different from house plumbing to human plumbing however chemicals in the fluids due influence calcification in home plumbing for sure. To me it makes sense to try and maintain some balance, otherwise illness does seem to result from low magnesium anyway. Supplements aren't my thing but i plan on making sure I add sufficient magnesium from foods such as cereal,fish,bananas,almonds,etc... Which seems to be in line with an alkaline rich diet I want to have anyway.
However, one of the big reasons I choose bovine valve in first place, was that I believe I'm not a stable diet type of person and would most likely end up as a high stroke risk with a mechanical valve because of it. I'm going to try and start a sensible diet anyway. I doubt adding magnesium rich foods to diet would hurt too much, may even help the Lazy Bowel Syndrome I was diagnosed with immediately after surgery and realized in hindsight that it probably troubled me most of my life often. I know when i first changed to adding those foods three years ago, alot of horrible symptoms like extremely tight muscles,headaches, dizziness, chronic fatigue, dry itching skin,etc, did go away. Whether it was higher magnesium, lower acid ash, I could never be certain what cured me.
If you do ever happen to come across any GOOD studies, I would be interested in the findings.
The second link offers an analogy:
“To understand how you can create a calcium/magnesium imbalance in your own body, try this experiment in your kitchen. Crush a calcium pill and see how much dissolves in 1 oz of water. Then crush a magnesium pill and slowly stir it into the calcium water. When you introduce the magnesium, the remaining calcium dissolves; it becomes more water-soluble. The same thing happens in your bloodstream, heart, brain, kidneys, and all the tissues in your body. If you don’t have enough magnesium to help keep calcium dissolved, you may end up with calcium-excess muscle spasms, fibromyalgia, hardening of the arteries, and even dental cavities. Another scenario plays out in the kidneys. If there is too much calcium in the kidneys and not enough magnesium to dissolve it, you can get kidney stones.”
It makes sense to me that calcium/magnesium imbalance in blood may cause calcification in body tissue. I imagine its quite different from house plumbing to human plumbing however chemicals in the fluids due influence calcification in home plumbing for sure. To me it makes sense to try and maintain some balance, otherwise illness does seem to result from low magnesium anyway. Supplements aren't my thing but i plan on making sure I add sufficient magnesium from foods such as cereal,fish,bananas,almonds,etc... Which seems to be in line with an alkaline rich diet I want to have anyway.
However, one of the big reasons I choose bovine valve in first place, was that I believe I'm not a stable diet type of person and would most likely end up as a high stroke risk with a mechanical valve because of it. I'm going to try and start a sensible diet anyway. I doubt adding magnesium rich foods to diet would hurt too much, may even help the Lazy Bowel Syndrome I was diagnosed with immediately after surgery and realized in hindsight that it probably troubled me most of my life often. I know when i first changed to adding those foods three years ago, alot of horrible symptoms like extremely tight muscles,headaches, dizziness, chronic fatigue, dry itching skin,etc, did go away. Whether it was higher magnesium, lower acid ash, I could never be certain what cured me.
If you do ever happen to come across any GOOD studies, I would be interested in the findings.