Cheers Ross. I do take your original comments on board. But like the others I'm not wanting to be 'convinced of the right path'. Just what is right for me.
Guess what ? That's right mechanical -v- tissue (with a hint of Ross)
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kfay
Well-known member
Gail, you need to go back and re-read my post...I did not say 2% for 3rd. I said it for 1st and 2nds. This is exactly the problem with this forum.
Ross
Well-known member
I don't care what you choose, I only want you and others about to go through this, to think it over really hard. That is all.
All anyone wants is for people to learn as much as they can of the facts and make informed choices.
I never said Anti coagulation is MORE risky than multiple surgeries, I said the risks are about the same, and that chances are very high which ever valve you choose you will life a long and happy life. It just depends which risks you personal would rather live with. Many people live on coumadin for decades with out big problems and for the majority even IF they do run into a big problem because of bleeds or clots after the horrible time they go on to live their lives with out problem. I also know hundreds of people that have had 3 or more OHS who are doing great, no long term issues caused by surgery. Many did better for some of the later surgeries than the earlier, but that is usually because the earlier surgeries were more compleex or they were in worse shape going in, because they didn't know about their heart problem so weren't being followed and closely watched and like coumadin the great majority, even IF they do have serious complications do equally as well after the longer recovery period. Of course there are people in BOTH groups who do have long term problems.
Very Long-Term Survival Implications of Valve Replacement with Bioprostheses versus Mechanical Prostheses http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/116/11_suppl/I-294
I never said Anti coagulation is MORE risky than multiple surgeries, I said the risks are about the same, and that chances are very high which ever valve you choose you will life a long and happy life. It just depends which risks you personal would rather live with. Many people live on coumadin for decades with out big problems and for the majority even IF they do run into a big problem because of bleeds or clots after the horrible time they go on to live their lives with out problem. I also know hundreds of people that have had 3 or more OHS who are doing great, no long term issues caused by surgery. Many did better for some of the later surgeries than the earlier, but that is usually because the earlier surgeries were more compleex or they were in worse shape going in, because they didn't know about their heart problem so weren't being followed and closely watched and like coumadin the great majority, even IF they do have serious complications do equally as well after the longer recovery period. Of course there are people in BOTH groups who do have long term problems.
Very Long-Term Survival Implications of Valve Replacement with Bioprostheses versus Mechanical Prostheses http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/116/11_suppl/I-294
Very welcome. Send me a private note if you want to know any more about my personal experiences.
right guys, think we need to have a beer ok, all come round to my house ,pizza and beer ok, and ross i will show you my french collection lol
Excellent idea Neil!!! Speaking of which, I'm gonna try to find that post about the upcoming chi-town gathering. Anybody been to that before, or planning to go this year? I'm thinking about it.
NealR
Well-known member
Great topic, always a lively debate.
I had my surgery in October of last year, and was definitely no fun. I recovered, am doing well, but already know for sure, a second surgery will be needed,,,,at some point.
However, I am happy with my decision, and for me, and everyone is different, is worth it! Either way, you pay. Whether now, by means of the ticking, anti-coagulants, and just being a tad more careful regarding bleeding. Or, sometime in the future, whether 10, 15, or 20 years from now.
Tissues offer you the best chance at being as close to normal as you can get. They sound well, feel well, and I think you may even recover a bit quicker. Best to think more about the surgeon, their team, the hospital and overall experience. This is why the Cleveland Clinic is rated #1. This should be equally as concerning as the actual valves themselves. My surgeon and team, and hospital, were excellent. Outstanding job. This is where I think the difference is. I keep kidding my wife, that when I need another surgery, my surgeon will probably be somewhere in his 80's. Will he still be practicing?
Mechanicals, and all is can say is the only information I have on them, is from this forum, and appears everyone, or nearly everyone has done well. From personal experince, and others who I know (such as my brother) ,and quite a few more with Tissues, have all done well too.
So, my advise, for what it is worth, educate yourself on the best surgeons and facilities in your area, and go from there. Check who you know used the surgeon. Ask your GP, who is the best Valve person,,,they will tell you.
Good luck, and think you will do just fine.
I had my surgery in October of last year, and was definitely no fun. I recovered, am doing well, but already know for sure, a second surgery will be needed,,,,at some point.
However, I am happy with my decision, and for me, and everyone is different, is worth it! Either way, you pay. Whether now, by means of the ticking, anti-coagulants, and just being a tad more careful regarding bleeding. Or, sometime in the future, whether 10, 15, or 20 years from now.
Tissues offer you the best chance at being as close to normal as you can get. They sound well, feel well, and I think you may even recover a bit quicker. Best to think more about the surgeon, their team, the hospital and overall experience. This is why the Cleveland Clinic is rated #1. This should be equally as concerning as the actual valves themselves. My surgeon and team, and hospital, were excellent. Outstanding job. This is where I think the difference is. I keep kidding my wife, that when I need another surgery, my surgeon will probably be somewhere in his 80's. Will he still be practicing?
Mechanicals, and all is can say is the only information I have on them, is from this forum, and appears everyone, or nearly everyone has done well. From personal experince, and others who I know (such as my brother) ,and quite a few more with Tissues, have all done well too.
So, my advise, for what it is worth, educate yourself on the best surgeons and facilities in your area, and go from there. Check who you know used the surgeon. Ask your GP, who is the best Valve person,,,they will tell you.
Good luck, and think you will do just fine.
Sounds good. We are having a beer summit at Neil house.
Hi Andy,
This is such a hard decision for anyone, I'm going to just tell you a little about me since we are only a few years apart (I'm 31). I've had 3 heart surgeries and pray that I never have another! Each surgery you have increases the scar tissue around your heart... as you age, the risks of each surgery also increases and recovery time lengthens.
My first surgery I was literally back in high school (my senior year) after 2-3 weeks out of the hospital. However, when I was 20, my surgeon tried to repair my mitral valve and after a week later of being bed-ridden with 3 chest tubes (complete nightmare for me from what I remember), I had to go back in for a 3rd surgery and had my mitral valve replaced with a St. Jude Mechanical Valve. It literally took me almost a year to finally feel like myself again, no kidding.. and I was 20 in great health! I dropped out of my semester in college after my 3rd surgery.. I had informed all of my professors prior to the semester starting that I would miss about 2 weeks of school and would be back.. oh no way! The recovery this last surgery was completely different; VERY difficult... and if I wasn't so young in great health, it would've taken longer to recover. (keep in mind that I did have 2 surgeries 1 week apart though)
As far as coumadin, I've had no complications at all, and I've taken it for 10 yrs now.. I don't know how many people on this board have been on blood thinners before the age of 21, but I went through crazy college days and did not take care of myself like I should've on coumadin.. yet fortunately I never had a problem (thank God!)...
Fortunately, you're a male, so if you do choose to have a mechanical valve, pregnancy won't be an issue like it was for me, lol.. I suggest, like another member suggested, that if you decide on the Ross procedure you should get someone who is VERY experienced..
Best of luck whatever you choose! I just wanted to share my experience.. Keep us updated!
This is such a hard decision for anyone, I'm going to just tell you a little about me since we are only a few years apart (I'm 31). I've had 3 heart surgeries and pray that I never have another! Each surgery you have increases the scar tissue around your heart... as you age, the risks of each surgery also increases and recovery time lengthens.
My first surgery I was literally back in high school (my senior year) after 2-3 weeks out of the hospital. However, when I was 20, my surgeon tried to repair my mitral valve and after a week later of being bed-ridden with 3 chest tubes (complete nightmare for me from what I remember), I had to go back in for a 3rd surgery and had my mitral valve replaced with a St. Jude Mechanical Valve. It literally took me almost a year to finally feel like myself again, no kidding.. and I was 20 in great health! I dropped out of my semester in college after my 3rd surgery.. I had informed all of my professors prior to the semester starting that I would miss about 2 weeks of school and would be back.. oh no way! The recovery this last surgery was completely different; VERY difficult... and if I wasn't so young in great health, it would've taken longer to recover. (keep in mind that I did have 2 surgeries 1 week apart though)
As far as coumadin, I've had no complications at all, and I've taken it for 10 yrs now.. I don't know how many people on this board have been on blood thinners before the age of 21, but I went through crazy college days and did not take care of myself like I should've on coumadin.. yet fortunately I never had a problem (thank God!)...
Fortunately, you're a male, so if you do choose to have a mechanical valve, pregnancy won't be an issue like it was for me, lol.. I suggest, like another member suggested, that if you decide on the Ross procedure you should get someone who is VERY experienced..
Best of luck whatever you choose! I just wanted to share my experience.. Keep us updated!
Kathy McCain
Well-known member
Hi all.
Just want to say that Arnold Schwarzenegger, had a HUMAN tissue valve implanted in 1997. To my knowledge he is still doing good.
Just want to say that Arnold Schwarzenegger, had a HUMAN tissue valve implanted in 1997. To my knowledge he is still doing good.
Gail in Ca
Well-known member
Wow, I am sensing a bit of snippiness and I know more than you kind of thing. I have had both kinds of valves, have been through 3 surgeries and endocarditis.(and a bleed and DIC). After having been through these experiences, I can now see both sides of this issue. I just try to represent to this forum what can happen, and it's different than what your docs might tell you. My porcine lasted 11 yrs and I was told that was great, that on average they only go 8-10yrs.
Now, many yrs later, I was still informed that tissue would give me 10 yrs. After I found out it took my well respected surgeon 4 hours just to get through the scar tissue to start on the valves, I was shocked. When he told me beforehand that it's the scar tissue that holds the most risk, I didn't know it could be that bad! I now know after 3 surgeries that you find out info about surgeries that you didn't know before, and your docs don't tell you. Who knew it would take 4 hours to cut thru scar tissue? Then, it's 3-4 hours per valve, and then it's creating a valve plus graft to customize what I needed.
Does this all sound like a easy, any surgeon can do it kind of surgery?
Those of you on your 1st surgery, go ahead and try a bio if you want. It feels good for a few years.
But, you won't know until after you've been thru the surgery how you recover. Each person is different. Each surgery is different even on the same person.
Now, many yrs later, I was still informed that tissue would give me 10 yrs. After I found out it took my well respected surgeon 4 hours just to get through the scar tissue to start on the valves, I was shocked. When he told me beforehand that it's the scar tissue that holds the most risk, I didn't know it could be that bad! I now know after 3 surgeries that you find out info about surgeries that you didn't know before, and your docs don't tell you. Who knew it would take 4 hours to cut thru scar tissue? Then, it's 3-4 hours per valve, and then it's creating a valve plus graft to customize what I needed.
Does this all sound like a easy, any surgeon can do it kind of surgery?
Those of you on your 1st surgery, go ahead and try a bio if you want. It feels good for a few years.
But, you won't know until after you've been thru the surgery how you recover. Each person is different. Each surgery is different even on the same person.
Yep, my surgeon knows his surgeon and told me the story about how the Govenator blew his Ross out almost immediately. He said he almost didn't make it back to the hospital in time due to rush hour traffic in LA.
Ross
Well-known member
I removed my post because I cannot find anything on that second surgery, but I sure remember it happening.
It did happen he knew much more than his doctors so didnt listen to them about restrictions post op and blew out his Ross (I think the aortic valve) but the weird thing is, after it happend all mention of it just disapeared
Publicists in LA hide all kinds of stuff...
sounds alot like DC
Kathy McCain
Well-known member
None of us can look into the future. I still believe it is a personal choice to make with your physicians. There are quiet a few on this forum, both with TISSUE and MECHANICLE valves that have had more than one surgery. We can not second guess our decision, just be happy with our choice and live our lives. I have know people (several) that have had heart surgery and they die from something completely unrelated. I do believe that people on this forum that have strong opinions one way or the other, have very good intentions. Also they are trying to relate THEIR PERSONEL experience. I personally feel fortunate to have found this support group.
Ross
Well-known member
Nonsense. Your just trying to get free beer! :tongue2:
Nancy
Well-known member
There are many things to consider about this surgery. Mechanical vs. tissue vs. Ross procedure and on and on, are all important to learn about and think about. But, as the wife of a man who had multiple valve surgeries, I can tell you, those things are not the only things to consider by a long shot.
Joe had rheumatic fever as a teen and in his mid forties, his aortic valve had to be replaced. He was supposed to get a pig valve. That was thought to be far superior to the relatively new mechanical valves. Well, as luck would have it, after testing him for allergies, it was found that he could not have the pig valve. So he had a Bjork-Shiley mechanical implanted, and he was on Coumadin. Then several years later, his mitral valve deteriorated and was replaced with a St. Jude mechanical. Shortly after that a leak developed in the cuff of that valve and another surgery had to be done to repair that. As he got on in years, he had other medical issues that developed and they impaired his health.
A time came when his root started to enlarge, and he also developed symptoms of tricuspid and/or pulmonary valve problems. He needed a fourth valve surgery, no doubt.
But no surgeon would do it. He was told he would die on the table. His cardiologist came into Joe's room and laid it out on the line very explicitly, I'll never forget that conversation. He said, "we will do whatever we can on a medical basis to alleviate your symptoms, but your surgical days are probably over."
No one knows what lies ahead in life. Will your health continue on in good fashion with just a pesky heart problem or will you develop other medical problems? What will happen when you get into your 70s or so and need another surgery, after you've had a couple before?
The heart is not a large organ. The surgeon has to cut into it to operate. That causes scar tissue. In addition, adhesions can develop. Multiple surgeries cause multiple scars and adhesions, even though they may try to go through the same scar again. And there is always the chance that the delicate electricity of the heart could get interrupted by this surgery. One of Joe's cardiologists said it best, "You know, we go into the very delicate area of the heart with our great big hands and do all kinds of things. There is a lot of collateral damage, it cannot be helped."
The odds that Joe was quoted for the first and second surgery were about the same 1-2%. The odds for the third surgery were 15%. The odds for the fourth surgery 100%.
Not saying that everyone will be like Joe. But you have to consider and weigh these very difficult options. Nothing about this surgery is easy peasy.
By the way, Joe lived to be 75 years old. His two mechanical valves were with him to the end and functioning very well until the last second of his life. His death was not caused by mechanical valve failure. And Coumadin, for him, had fewer side effects than any of his other medications. He was also an active and athletic man until illness struck him down.
So think this through as if you were preparing for a doctoral thesis. It is such an important decision, not to be taken lightly.
Joe had rheumatic fever as a teen and in his mid forties, his aortic valve had to be replaced. He was supposed to get a pig valve. That was thought to be far superior to the relatively new mechanical valves. Well, as luck would have it, after testing him for allergies, it was found that he could not have the pig valve. So he had a Bjork-Shiley mechanical implanted, and he was on Coumadin. Then several years later, his mitral valve deteriorated and was replaced with a St. Jude mechanical. Shortly after that a leak developed in the cuff of that valve and another surgery had to be done to repair that. As he got on in years, he had other medical issues that developed and they impaired his health.
A time came when his root started to enlarge, and he also developed symptoms of tricuspid and/or pulmonary valve problems. He needed a fourth valve surgery, no doubt.
But no surgeon would do it. He was told he would die on the table. His cardiologist came into Joe's room and laid it out on the line very explicitly, I'll never forget that conversation. He said, "we will do whatever we can on a medical basis to alleviate your symptoms, but your surgical days are probably over."
No one knows what lies ahead in life. Will your health continue on in good fashion with just a pesky heart problem or will you develop other medical problems? What will happen when you get into your 70s or so and need another surgery, after you've had a couple before?
The heart is not a large organ. The surgeon has to cut into it to operate. That causes scar tissue. In addition, adhesions can develop. Multiple surgeries cause multiple scars and adhesions, even though they may try to go through the same scar again. And there is always the chance that the delicate electricity of the heart could get interrupted by this surgery. One of Joe's cardiologists said it best, "You know, we go into the very delicate area of the heart with our great big hands and do all kinds of things. There is a lot of collateral damage, it cannot be helped."
The odds that Joe was quoted for the first and second surgery were about the same 1-2%. The odds for the third surgery were 15%. The odds for the fourth surgery 100%.
Not saying that everyone will be like Joe. But you have to consider and weigh these very difficult options. Nothing about this surgery is easy peasy.
By the way, Joe lived to be 75 years old. His two mechanical valves were with him to the end and functioning very well until the last second of his life. His death was not caused by mechanical valve failure. And Coumadin, for him, had fewer side effects than any of his other medications. He was also an active and athletic man until illness struck him down.
So think this through as if you were preparing for a doctoral thesis. It is such an important decision, not to be taken lightly.
