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ValveAdmin

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Old fashioned brown paper grocery sacks, or the new plastic bags?

I can see some positives on both, and a couple of negatives for the plastic bags.

How about you?
 

LondonAndy

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It is very rare to get paper grocery sacks here in the UK, and there is a mandatory charge per plastic bag of a minimum 10p each to encourage recycling, though there are a small number of exceptions. Therefore heavy duty "bag for life" plastic bags are common.

Bag for life.jpg


Other supermarkets are available :p
 

pellicle

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It is very rare to get paper grocery sacks here in the UK, and there is a mandatory charge per plastic bag of a minimum 10p each to encourage recycling, though there are a small number of exceptions. Therefore heavy duty "bag for life" plastic bags are common.

View attachment 889091

Other supermarkets are available :p
Do they have those Elephants in White too?
 

epstns

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We keep a stack of reusable shopping bags in the cars. When we travel, we take them (a few) with us. I do keep a stock of the "disposable" plastic store bags up in my home office, as the bin there is specifically built to use those bags for tossable trash.

As popular as the reusable shopping bags have become, they will never see great use among dog walkers. . .
 

pellicle

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As popular as the reusable shopping bags have become, they will never see great use among dog walkers. . .
sometimes things just should be single use ;-)

A (US based) friend of mine occasionally sends me pictures of (what I at first thought were deflated balloons) bio-degradable bags of dog droppings left in a bag on the side of hiking trails.

So thoughtful to make them bio-degradable
 

ValveAdmin

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I just remember the large brown paper grocery bags used to wrap our school books to keep the covers nice so they would be good when turned in at end of year. Or wrapping packages in to ship/mail. I do use the reusable bags from grocery stores to carry all manner of things, and even use them at the grocery store.
 

carolinemc

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I take 25 mg twice a day. I was often short of breath before my heart trouble, probably due to asthma or allergy. Generally, I am in good health according to my lab reports...but I tire very easily, walking flights of stairs leaves me out of breath. Walking is boring to me and tiring. So many of the side effects are common to lots of drugs or even without taking anything. Depression, fatigue very common. I am in my seventies, so energy dwindles. I get no answers from doctors because they don't know.
Could you explain if that is a medication that is 25 mg twice and what it is, here on the page we are discussing paper bags. So sorry about the shortness of breath from your heart condition. For when we have heart problems, we all have breathing problems like shortness of breath and fatigue. I have depression from Diabetes type 2 and having heart issues. PC doctors do not know much. You need a cardiologist and one that will listen and help you. I hope you will look for one.
 

ValveAdmin

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I take 25 mg twice a day. I was often short of breath before my heart trouble, probably due to asthma or allergy. Generally, I am in good health according to my lab reports...but I tire very easily, walking flights of stairs leaves me out of breath. Walking is boring to me and tiring. So many of the side effects are common to lots of drugs or even without taking anything. Depression, fatigue very common. I am in my seventies, so energy dwindles. I get no answers from doctors because they don't know.

I think you meant for this answer to go to a different thread. Did you post it where it was meant to go? If so, I'll just delete this one.
 

thomas999

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Plastic is a byproduct of petroleum, and paper of course is a byproduct of trees. Do we cut down more trees to make paper bags or do we use plastic that comes from petroleum and eventually pollute the environment with the waste. Probably the best way to do things is to continue to reuse over and over and over again products, but we are a spoiled Society and many don't care about the future, just to here and now.
 
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pellicle

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Hi

I like your thinking here
Plastic is a byproduct of petroleum, and paper of course is a byproduct of trees. Do we cut down more trees to make paper bags or do we use plastic that comes from petroleum and eventually pollute the environment with the waste.

I'm not sure how deep your knowledge goes, and so my answers try not to assume one way or the other, but there are important and deeper questions than just what appears on the surface. So I write this as much for the general readership as as any "answer to you personally".

Firstly with cutting down trees, there are plantation trees and there are virgin forests. These are different in nature and support entirely different habitats. Plantation forests are none the less a "sustainable resource" (just for reference you have no idea how vexing that term is to me, but that's quite the essay which I have no intention to write and its very well covered in "the literature" for anyone who's actually interested).

Japan for instance is well wooded (as BTW is Finland where my wife was born and earned her Masters degree in Forestry) and is a very good balance of native and plantation wooded lands.

This link gives some good data on that (for brevity I'll not cite it here)

Finland also is big in paper (being home to #4 paper production company Stora Enso).

What's often missing from this discussion is anything other than CO2 these days (sad if you ask me, that the scope of the problem has been dumbed down to just one indicator). However its conveniently ignored by the public (but well known to industry) that recycling paper has chemical waste issues. I would suggest this reading as a starter on the topic:

The simple fact is summarised by weight however; so plastic bags weight a lot less than paper and so per bag there is (as you'd expect) less issue with all the negative by products than paper.

Lastly there is the inevitable end of life, which few countries actually do in a sustainable or responsible way. Many woke folk think that taking their plastic to a "recycling center" actually doe something good. To believe that you'd have to have a narrow view and not delve into what's behind the storefront.

To me (as a summary) I think that only Sweden does the right thing with plastic waste: turn it into energy by burning it. Burning it in well constructed modern furnaces which either destroy any dangerous chemicals (dioxins come immediately to mind) or capture it.

If you think that waste subcontracted to India is properly recycled I suggest you go on a holiday there and find out. Myself I've been there (for business) a few times, often for 3 or 6 months. The feelings after returning from one of those trips is expressed here (although not related to this topic specifically)


So in my view reduce reuse recycle and proper thought put into all aspects (by government if not by individuals). Bad decisions stem from only knowing a small slice of the information pie chart, and we see no end of bad decisions (usually reactive in nature) from government and the woke.

Personal Disclosure: I completed my Research Masters in Environmental Science in 2007 after having been involved in Environmental Education for about 6 years before that.
 
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