Likelyhood and reality of On-X without anticoagulant

[almost_hectic]

Roaming around the web and found an interesting graphic with a tad more info than I was previously aware of. Namely with regard to the pure form of carbon used in On-X valves and that pure carbon is not considered a foreign object by the body, therefore once enough clinical data is amassed the hope being one day to completely negate the need for anticoagulants completely. I think I had heard this before maybe but thought I'd share it here and see what others have learned and what you guys think of the likely hood of that ever becoming a reality. It's at the very least very encouraging to have that in the back of my mind as it relates to managing INR.

Hmmm, evidently the site tells me I'm not allowed to upload images?.... Sorry was hoping to share

 

[almost_hectic]

Maybe this will work
http://blog.grabcad.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/herzberg-x-flow-valve-04.jpg

 

[almost_hectic]

Well not exactly as I had hoped

 

[cldlhd]

I had read that the clotting issue with a mechanical valve has less to do with the material being foreign and more to do with the sudden closure of the valve affecting the blood platelets. Supposedly it's more about the hemodynamics, a native valve closes much more gradually, like a 45 degree angle on a graph where as a mechanical valve would be closer to a 90. A native or tissue valve actually starts to close while blood is still exiting the heart while the mechanical valve requires backflow. So I would imagine once they develop a mechanical valve that more accurately replicates the function of a native valve you can have the best of both worlds, the longevity of a mechanical with the hemodynamics of a tissue. That's assuming some strain of pig bacteria doesn't finish us off first.

 

[W. Carter]

Maybe we are all over medicated with Warfarin anyways. Here is a 68 y.o. man that has refused Warfarin therapy since 1984 after having a St. Jude Medical mechanical valve replacement.

http://icvts.oxfordjournals.org/content/8/2/263.full

 

[dick0236]

Maybe we are all over medicated with Warfarin anyways. Here is a 68 y.o. man that has refused Warfarin therapy since 1984 after having a St. Jude Medical mechanical valve replacement.

http://icvts.oxfordjournals.org/content/8/2/263.full

I have heard these stories before and while I find them interesting I don't want to be a guinea pig......again. I had a stroke seven years post surgery(1974) when I went 4-5 days without warfarin while on a vacation. That experience left me with a permanent vision problem. After that experience I've never gone more than a day or so without warfarin and have had NO additional problems for the past 41+ years. Be very careful about trying that experiment........strokes are forever.

 

[W. Carter]

Dick, it just makes me wonder what would happen with just an 81 mg aspirin a day. They have said that aspirin is a wonder drug for the heart and clotting, and if discovered today it would be a prescription drug.

 

[dick0236]

Dick, it just makes me wonder what would happen with just an 81 mg aspirin a day. They have said that aspirin is a wonder drug for the heart and clotting, and if discovered today it would be a prescription drug.

I took warfarin only for about 46 years until my cardio put me on an 81mg aspirin along with warfarin two years ago. He said that the warfarin/aspirin combination was the "new" thinking about valve management....but the aspirin was not a replacement for warfarin. I have noticed no affect on my INR since adding the aspirin.

 

[pellicle]

Hi

pardon me answering as this was addressed to Dick

Dick, it just makes me wonder what would happen with just an 81 mg aspirin a day. They have said that aspirin is a wonder drug for the heart and clotting, and if discovered today it would be a prescription drug.

An aspirin only trial was undertaken by ON-X, IIRC it was part of the trial called PROACT ... it was ceased because of deaths, I understood from clotting. Not everyone, but enough to cease the trial. So much better odds than say "Russian Roulette" (which is 1 in 6 death). There are reported cases of people being uncoagulated all the time (the poor, people in 3rd world countries), but we don' t know the odds.

Without materials changes (which are in the line for future valves, google ats forcefield) thrombus formation on the valve is inevitable. Minor, but inevitable. There is no safe way to avoid Anti Coagulation therapy, but there are safe ways to do AC therapy. My view is that its safer than reop and safer than anyone who is vested in peddling other products (which cost way more) will have you believe.

Its curious that we come here for information then when faced with that information (such as Dicks experiencs of 46 years) continue to "believe" the anecdotal falsehoods that surround warfarin.

 

[almost_hectic]

I guess even as it relates to managing coumadin, diet and nutrition plays a large role in the clotting potential of any one individuals blood and potentially different at any given time.

 

[honeybunny]

FWIW, I'm on 325 mg aspirin for my tissue valve. Not sure if this is a lifetime or short-term therapy; I'll ask at my next checkup. Anyway, my INR was 1.3 when I was tested this past Friday before undergoing an in-office thoracentesis to drain pleural effusion; if too high they would have sent me to the hospital to have it done

Again, FWIW with no opinion because I'm not well informed on the subject.