Help and advice wanted about post surgery aches

[prdraper1]

I am now 10 weeks post surgery for an aortic valve replacement and am trying to get fit again. I have joined a cardiac rehab class and can do the exercises easily but my muscles ache all of the time. I get this with or without exercises especially in the back, legs, feet and hands. I have a non tissue aortic valve and am taking 5mg Warfarin, 40mg furosimide, atorvastatin and iron tablets for anaemia. I stopped taking the statin, changed the statin from simvastatin to no effect, went back onto a different statin and have had no improvement. Has any one else had similar problems? Please help as the pain is severley affecting my recovery.

 

[tprice54]

Well, you look like you addressed my first item, statins. It certainly sounds like a statin side effect. It takes weeks for them to leave your system How long did you stop them?

 

[Ross]

Try to drop the Statins PERIOD. It definately sounds like Statin induced problems. See if you can take Omega 3 fish oil instead. It will cause your INR to rise, but it can be adjusted for.

 

[tobagotwo]

It can take a while for muscle aches cause by statins to go away. Give it some time. Be sure your doctor is aware of your muscle issues and what you are doing with regard to taking or not taking any of your prescription meds.

Also be sure you are getting potassium and any salts in whatever amounts they have been recommended by your doctor. Drink fluids as needed, and ensure that you are not dehydrating.

Best wishes,

 

[prdraper1]

statins

statins

Well, you look like you addressed my first item, statins. It certainly sounds like a statin side effect. It takes weeks for them to leave your system How long did you stop them?

I stopped taking statins for 5 days and felt no better. I am unhappy to stop them without a specialist's opinion.

 

[Ross]

I stopped taking statins for 5 days and felt no better. I am unhappy to stop them without a specialist's opinion.

That may be, but it takes weeks for the effects to stave off. Seriously, check with your doctor about coming off of them for good and going with mega doses of Omege 3 fish Oil. I'm not joking.

 

[realkarl]

INR and Omega-3

INR and Omega-3

Off-topic on INR and Omega-3...:

See if you can take Omega 3 fish oil instead. It will cause your INR to rise, but it can be adjusted for.

I have always been taking Omega-3 fish oil. Back in Norway, a spoonful from a bottle - it used to be an acquired taste, but now they process it so almost no taste remains. Here in the U.S. though it seems capsules are the only option.

I didn't know it increases INR. When I went to Norway over Christmas I had an unexplained decrease in INR, while taking Omega-3 by the spoonful, and probably a lot more than one capsule/day here. However, I am guessing the decrease was more related to eating more greens, not necessarily dark though, just "mom's cooking", instead of my own simpler cooking.

In any case, I was surprised to see that Omega-3 increases INR.

Karl.

 

[Ross]

Off-topic on INR and Omega-3...:

I have always been taking Omega-3 fish oil. Back in Norway, a spoonful from a bottle - it used to be an acquired taste, but now they process it so almost no taste remains. Here in the U.S. though it seems capsules are the only option.

I didn't know it increases INR. When I went to Norway over Christmas I had an unexplained decrease in INR, while taking Omega-3 by the spoonful, and probably a lot more than one capsule/day here. However, I am guessing the decrease was more related to eating more greens, not necessarily dark though, just "mom's cooking", instead of my own simpler cooking.

In any case, I was surprised to see that Omega-3 increases INR.

Karl.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14742793 Yeap it does. I started taking it and mine went through the roof, so rather then fuss about adjusting, I just stopped taking it.. Well, now I have to take Fenofibrate and it's as bad, if not worse, at raising INR.

My son gets fish oil in, get this, flavored packets. I tried one and it's not bad really. Anyhow, his Doctor told him to gobble down 4 packets a day.

 

[Cooker]

At 10 weeks out you have a long time yet to heal ... don't get discouraged ... As I recall I went through many ups and downs the first year ... it takes time...

 

[prdraper1]

statins

statins

When you say that by taking Omega 3 fish oil do you mean that the blood got thinner? I thought that the higher the INR then the thinner the blood. My INR is almost 2.5 and its target is 2.5 to 3.
Thanks again for all of the replies, they are always encouraging and helpful.

 

[karen14]

hi prdraper1, I stopped taking the simvastatin I was on, and the painful legs stopped! I think they'll try & put me on another (appointment this next Tuesday), but I've felt great since off of it! Hm. Plus it didn't lower my cholestorol much at all. I'm wondering if this drug is worth it? I don't know. Need to research more.... Good luck to you, ~Karen

 

[realkarl]

Ross: pls chime in.. "blood thinner" is a misnomer. The blood doesn't get thinner. Higher INR causes your blood to take longer to coagulate. It's just as thick as usual. Anywho, Ross said that Omega-3 increases INR, which means it takes longer for blood to coagulate. Personally, it has very little effect on me, but something to look out for if you suddenly start taking a lot of Omega-3. As a Norwegian, I swear by the health benefits of Omega-3 fish oil

 

[Jkm7]

I've taken Omega 3 for about 6 years and I seem to bounce around one brand to another. Do any of you have a preferred brand for a substantial reason? Is one brand reputed to be better than another?
Thanks.

 

[realkarl]

I should add that Norwegians have always believed in the good properties of fish oil. So much so that when my mom went to school in the 50's, they were forced to swallow a spoonful every day, and then they heated it on a wood stove, and it was much stronger in odor and taste than today. Now she has a lasting "disability" in that she is unable to take it in any form, due to being nauseated from the memory alone. Fortunately, my dad and I are free from this and we both enjoy fish oil in its natural form, a big spoonful from a bottle, but chilled of course. "Peter Möllers tran". tran = fish oil. I found the photo below on google to illustrate.

 

[Ross]

When you say that by taking Omega 3 fish oil do you mean that the blood got thinner? I thought that the higher the INR then the thinner the blood. My INR is almost 2.5 and its target is 2.5 to 3.
Thanks again for all of the replies, they are always encouraging and helpful

We try to educate people to move away from the terms "thicker" and "thinner" because in reality, your blood is just as thick as always, it just either has too much, too little, or just right anticoagulant in it, to either inhibit clotting or enhance it.

 

[Ross]

I've taken Omega 3 for about 6 years and I seem to bounce around one brand to another. Do any of you have a preferred brand for a substantial reason? Is one brand reputed to be better than another?
Thanks.

Good question. I'd like to know myself.

 

[prdraper1]

I have done a quick search on Omega 3 and have found very conflicting data regarding the dosage and its effectiveness. My medics always use the terms thinner and thicker for low and high INR although you are correct in saying that the anticoagulant level is what it refers to. Perhaps this is just a U.K. thing or terminology that is simple to use. Who knows?
I have certainly found my INR to be stubbornly low despite increasing the warfarin. I have also found that warfarin does alter ones lifestyle at times especially regarding alchohol consumption.

 

[Ross]

I have done a quick search on Omega 3 and have found very conflicting data regarding the dosage and its effectiveness. My medics always use the terms thinner and thicker for low and high INR although you are correct in saying that the anticoagulant level is what it refers to. Perhaps this is just a U.K. thing or terminology that is simple to use. Who knows?
I have certainly found my INR to be stubbornly low despite increasing the warfarin. I have also found that warfarin does alter ones lifestyle at times especially regarding alchohol consumption.

It's not just a U.K. thing. They do it here too. It's easier for them to dumb it down to a patient then to call it it's proper term and explain it. What I often forget it is, the majority of patients that are taking Warfarin are advanced in age. While us younger folks can appreciate the term anitcoagulant, perhaps an elderly person would be lost without describing it as a thinner. We'll never win the battle, but we do try!

Alcohol---Acts differently for everyone. Some like me, doesn't do a thing, others see rises, some see lower INR's. You just have to find out what it does for you.

It would be really helpful to know what dose your taking for a week, what your INR was on the last test, what they have you do for that INR, any other drugs your on, pretty much the whole gambit. We can usually figure out what's wrong pretty quickly and more often then not, it's not the patient, but those managing them.

 

[tobagotwo]

Some thoughts about Omega 3 fatty acids and fish oil...

What you are seeking are the Omega 3 fatty acids, not the fish oil itself. Generally, good fish sources at natural strength will require you to take three, 1-gram capsules of fish oil per day to get the study-recommended 1 gram of omega 3's.

The goal is to get over 1 gram (1,000 MG) of omega 3 Fatty acids each day, speciafically DHA and EPA, and preferrably in a 2:1 ratio of DHA to EPA. Other Omega FAs, like 6 and 9 are good as well, but they aren't the primary agents.

These Omega 3 fatty acids are also obtainable from vegetable sources, such as flax, primrose, safflower, olive, and nut oils. However, vegetable sources do not build up omega 3 fatty acids in the blood as quickly or as reliably as fish oils. As the concentrations are lowere, you will need to take more total oil to get the same amount of omega 3s. You may need to take a alrger ampount of omega 3s to have the same effective dose, and you will have to take it longer before it begins to become effective. It doesn't mean don't use vegetable choices. Just be aware and compensate.

Of the fish oils, salmon is the runaway favorite in the US, but it's also easily obtained from anchovies and cod, or any oily fish. And if you want to send someone else's kids to college, you can even buy it rendered directly from krill.

When dealing with salmon oils, wild-caught is better, as it has been shown to contain less mercury and other contaminants.

There are some "concentrated" fish oil products that have higher levels of omega 3s per gram. However, you don't know sourcing or manufacturing methods. Doesn't mean they're bad, just something to think about.

There are also weak formulations out there. Always be sure to check the serving or dosage size. If it's two, 1,000 MG capsules, it should add up to about 2/3 of a gram (666 MG) of total omega 3 fatty acids. No reason to digest more oil than you have to, as it's all fats and calories.

Best wishes,

 

[Jkm7]

I'm a big salmon lover and eat it at least-3 times per week. One day I might have canned salmon salad and the next day filet of wild salmon but still I take the Omega 3 Fish Oil Capsules.

I have noticed upon careful read of the labels, the capsules come in varying dosage and content.